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Bio-Engineering vs Cloning
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:01 pm    Post subject: Bio-Engineering vs Cloning Reply with quote

We have to an extent rules for cloneing and even bioware and cybernetics, however I have not seen any maximum threshold on how much of each you can have. only what it costs, points is cumulative and difficulty increase gives higher chances for mishap.

All this is fine, however I wonder as we heard about the "new" death troopers being "enhanced" but not being clones or assuming they do not have cyberware I am thinking bio engineering.

the medical scoursebook in the librabry (for reup) gives bio engineering option, but again no max point threshold.

I am picturing a NPC/PC based on the concept of agent 47, an artifically born bio enginnered by mixing the "best" dna from so and so.

so basically going through the book I have found the options needed to either consertaively and reasobale to full blown rancor with the options, but again I am wondering about the maximum point thresholds.

Also how would this be implemetented in a game wolrd, lets say the death troopers and such.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Bio-Engineering vs Cloning Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
All this is fine, however I wonder as we heard about the "new" death troopers being "enhanced" but not being clones or assuming they do not have cyberware I am thinking bio engineering.
...
Also how would this be implemetented in a game wolrd, lets say the death troopers and such.

Canon fluff is vague as to the specific type of enhancements Death Troopers have. The RO Ultimate Visual Guide states start out as normal stormtrooper candidates but those who qualify during training are reassigned to advanced death trooper training camps. Rigorous training makes them stronger, faster, and more resilient than normal stormtroopers. They also have special armor. "Classified medical procedures further augment their abilities and make them somewhat beyond humans." So this medical enhancement could be cybernetic or bioengineering. The FFG stats do not give Death Troopers any special abilities. They just have stats superior to average humans.

My initial interpretation of Death Troopers was that it was cybernetic enhancements because there aren't any other troopers that had cybernetics and that fits in with some history in my SWU. I haven't statted out Death Troopers yet, but maybe it won't matter so much if the medical enhancements are cybernetic or bioengineered. Cybernetics make it easier to earn DSPs, so there is a limiting factor built into RAW for that.

Quote:
I am picturing a NPC/PC based on the concept of agent 47, an artifically born bio enginnered by mixing the "best" dna from so and so.

I haven't played the Hitman game, but what you describe above sounds more like generic engineering than bioengineering.

Quote:
We have to an extent rules for cloneing and even bioware and cybernetics, however I have not seen any maximum threshold on how much of each you can have. only what it costs, points is cumulative and difficulty increase gives higher chances for mishap.
...
the medical scoursebook in the librabry (for reup) gives bio engineering option, but again no max point threshold.
...
so basically going through the book I have found the options needed to either consertaively and reasobale to full blown rancor with the options, but again I am wondering about the maximum point thresholds.

If they just have above average human attributes and move, I don't see that you need special rules. If the enhancement don't give any game mechanical special abilities, it seems this is more background fluff than mechanics. Just decide how high you want the abilities go, and if doing it for PCs, consider game balance with other PCs.

If the enhancements do grant special abilities, you need to provide more information for your question.
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes!!!!

Genetic Engineering, and not bioengineering, though I do wonder how would this impact the game.

Reading in the book and why I landed on bio engineering, was basically it seemed to include the aspects of genetic engineering, but yes I see the difference.

My main conscern is how much of these "enhancements" are the cap, I mean I can roll vs a cumulative difficulty (the cumulative points) and rolling good you can go ver ver far in being a "christmas three" so I am thining there should be some max threshold.

as to cybernetics, I would say other than the double chance to ger DSPs, I would argue that wth the descriptions which are more than just fluff, then we should think the body has a limit to what it can take, same is referred to in the bio engineering and DNA referances, is so and so much strain and it can actually break the DNA and more, but I never found a maximum.


On that note though the Genetic Engineering could this be something to allow in game without breaking everthing, I can see without too much balance issues a character can be "designed" like Agent 47 (for those knowing the franchise)
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never seen anything, but i could see the more cyberware you have, the HARDER it is to do anything with the force.. possibly even to where using force points are hard...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bioengineering might, for one, explain why the Imperial Royal Guards have 5D Dexterity when the Human maximum is 4D.

A long time ago, I was part of a discussion about a potential game playing as Royal Guards, in a sort of Secret Service type campaign, with the goal of foiling various assassination plots against Emperor Palpatine. The game itself never got off the ground, but there were some interesting ideas that grew out of it; one of these was the idea that the red-robed guards were just the visible portion of the Guard, and that there were other, less obvious units working in concert with them. One was a plainclothes division wearing armor that could be worn under normal clothing, with a fan-metal helmet (think Stargate movie retractable helmets) that could instantly close over the wearer's head if needed; the other was an elite rapid-reaction force like a SWAT team, hiding somewhere out of sight, but able to respond within a moment's notice if there was a need for overpowering force.

Seeing as how Deathtroopers specialize in "stealth, espionage and lethality", as well as protective detail for high-level VIPs, combined with the known fact that Royal Guards would commonly be rotated into the field to keep their fighting skills honed, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to make the Deathtroopers the "field" division of the Royal Guard. Which would then allow both types to just use the Royal Guard stats, with bioengineering as the explanation for why their Dex score is so far outside the human norm.

But I digress...
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Bioengineering might, for one, explain why the Imperial Royal Guards have 5D Dexterity when the Human maximum is 4D.

A long time ago, I was part of a discussion about a potential game playing as Royal Guards, in a sort of Secret Service type campaign, with the goal of foiling various assassination plots against Emperor Palpatine. The game itself never got off the ground, but there were some interesting ideas that grew out of it; one of these was the idea that the red-robed guards were just the visible portion of the Guard, and that there were other, less obvious units working in concert with them. One was a plainclothes division wearing armor that could be worn under normal clothing... the other was an elite rapid-reaction force like a SWAT team, hiding somewhere out of sight, but able to respond within a moment's notice if there was a need for overpowering force.

Seeing as how Deathtroopers specialize in "stealth, espionage and lethality", as well as protective detail for high-level VIPs, combined with the known fact that Royal Guards would commonly be rotated into the field to keep their fighting skills honed, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to make the Deathtroopers the "field" division of the Royal Guard.

Those are some great ideas on their own merit!

Quote:
Which would then allow both types to just use the Royal Guard stats, with bioengineering as the explanation for why their Dex score is so far outside the human norm.

But I digress...

Doing this only for the purpose of explaining the RAW Dex score suggests the RAW Dex score is inviolable and everything follows from that. IMO this 'stats-first' sentiment is putting the cart before the horse. Death Troopers (and IRG and Secret Service) should have higher than max human Dex if they should have higher than max human Dex. The stats should follow to reflect the concept. Just sayin'.
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