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Winter Soldiers; Clones & Aging
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Inquisitor1138
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Handwavium? IE Bull, that one of the new developers did, either because A) HE never even SAW the original trilogy, or B) Didn't CARE about that continuity issue..

It's not a continuity issue. Cloud City used their carbon-freezing for Tibanna gas, not foodstuffs or people, hence the modifications they made & Vader's concern. They were improvising.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Above in the thread, I was coming from a place of thinking that cryogenic freezing didn't exist in Star Wars when carbon freezing living beings already did (for better or worse)...

Inquisitor1138 wrote:
Cloud City used their carbon-freezing for Tibanna gas, not foodstuffs or people, hence the modifications they made & Vader's concern. They were improvising.

Those are true statements, but Lando's objection to Vader didn't mention Tibanna gas...

MrNexx wrote:
garhkal wrote:
If it was that easy to carbonite people, why then did vader seem skittish about using it on luke, so tested it on han, AND Boba seem to worry about if han survived?

As I mentioned above, I think it's a retcon or post hoc explanation (take your pick) that the Cloud City facility wasn't really rated for people... a people-rated facility works at different tolerances, and Cloud City was more industrial.


garhkal, I get where you are coming from. Lando said, "Lord Vader, we only use this facility for carbon freezing. You put him in there, it might kill him." The idea suggested in this thread is that Lando left out the words "tibanna gas" after "freezing," meaning that the carbon freezing apparatus at Bespin was specifically designed for "tibanna gas" so that's why it was dangerous for humans and Vader wanted to test it on Solo before freezing Luke. So Nexx is saying that there may be other carbon freezing units actually designed for freezing live people. Lando doesn't come out and say that, so it does sound like he means all carbon freezing is dangerous for living beings.

They went with this premise in the first episode of The Mandalorian. He had a carbon freezing unit on his ship that he used to freeze multiple bounties before delivering them. So not only was that safe for living beings, but it was greatly miniaturized from the apparatus on Cloud City. I balked at both ideas, and several here jumped on my objections with this premise that there could be safer (and smaller) carbon freezing units for freezing live sentients six years after TESB.

For what it's worth, I'm with you, garhkal. Lando seemed to indicate that carbon freezing in general was not designed for living beings at all. And I feel it hurts the drama of the films if Han being carbon-freezed (and surviving it) was so commonplace. I like it better that Han was a unique trophy on Jabba's wall.

But for the concept of this thread, maybe a batch of clones were specifically engineered to survive carbon freezing and Lando didn't know about that. Maybe Vader even knew about he frozen clones so knew it was possible to adjust the unit on Cloud City so that Han and Luke could survive. Or, you could leave out carbon freezing and just say that the clones were specifically engineered to survive cryogenic freezing, since that would also seem rare in Star Wars. Either way, winter soldiers.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inquisitor1138 wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Handwavium? IE Bull, that one of the new developers did, either because A) HE never even SAW the original trilogy, or B) Didn't CARE about that continuity issue..

It's not a continuity issue. Cloud City used their carbon-freezing for Tibanna gas, not foodstuffs or people, hence the modifications they made & Vader's concern. They were improvising.


How can it not be though, since we don't SEE IN anything canon (TIL disney got the cartoons/bobafet stuff), that there WAS any other form of carbon freezing, so we only HAD that film, to go off of..
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Inquisitor1138
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, sugar!
According to https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Carbonite , the bit about carbonite-freezing being used for sleeper ships is attributed to Ep. V, the ESB.
Now i must research...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh? There’s nothing at all in ESB about sleeper ships.
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inquisitor1138 wrote:
Well, sugar!
According to https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Carbonite , the bit about carbonite-freezing being used for sleeper ships is attributed to Ep. V, the ESB.
Now i must research...


That's not what that link says. Note 3 precedes the statement about sleeper ships; it says "ESB says that you can put people in hibernation. However, they used to use that in sleeper ships, but we don't provide you a reference here." (the linked article does).

I agree, the text of TESB doesn't support that there are different grades of carbon freezing. However, I think the post-hoc clarification works pretty well.
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Inquisitor1138
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Inquisitor1138 wrote:
Well, sugar!
According to https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Carbonite , the bit about carbonite-freezing being used for sleeper ships is attributed to Ep. V, the ESB.
Now i must research...


That's not what that link says. Note 3 precedes the statement about sleeper ships; it says "ESB says that you can put people in hibernation. However, they used to use that in sleeper ships, but we don't provide you a reference here." (the linked article does).

I agree, the text of TESB doesn't support that there are different grades of carbon freezing. However, I think the post-hoc clarification works pretty well.

Thank you, this helps.
i need to watch ESB & the Clone Wars again.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Inquisitor1138 wrote:
Well, sugar!
According to https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Carbonite , the bit about carbonite-freezing being used for sleeper ships is attributed to Ep. V, the ESB.
Now i must research...


That's not what that link says. Note 3 precedes the statement about sleeper ships; it says "ESB says that you can put people in hibernation. However, they used to use that in sleeper ships, but we don't provide you a reference here." (the linked article does).

I agree, the text of TESB doesn't support that there are different grades of carbon freezing. However, I think the post-hoc clarification works pretty well.


BUT where in EP5 was that said? Or was it in the novelization?
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Inquisitor1138
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i beleve MrNexx's point is that the reference to sleeper ships was misattributed to ESB, when in fact it is from another source entirely.
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