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Terminator Crossover

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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:11 pm Post subject:

CRMcNeill wrote:

garhkal wrote:

I'd just have the gate system.. no teleporter pads. No asgard beams.

I prefer to keep my options open, with advanced teleportation tech being one of the potential tools in the bag of tricks used by advanced alien species.

I don't need all options open. I'm good with boldly proclaiming Trek-style transportation technology simply does not exist in my SWU. I've never really even cared for it in Star Trek either, but it has been a part of the franchise from the beginning so I just accept it as part of that setting.

Wormholes do exist in my SWU though, and I am open to the existence of artificially created wormholes using advanced alien "gates" on both ends, but it certainly would not be common tech. This reminds me of the Gree created by WEG, but IIRC their hypergates were ancient tech that no longer exist or function. If these ever appeared in my game, there would have to be a catch. Like, the species who created them are long extinct, and anyone else going through one now goes insane.

I'm using the idea of mini-wormholes created by a Force power allowing the ability of personal translocation, but the catch is that it doesn't work outside of one specific nebula in one specific satellite galaxy.

Anyway, if I followed, this transporter discussion branched off a side comment tangent to Terminator-style time travel. Although wormholes theoretically could also connect two different points in time, I sincerely doubt I would ever run any 'time travel' adventures in Star Wars (again–I've already done that in my youth). It just feels 'off-genre' for Star Wars to me. To each their own though.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:51 am Post subject:

Whill wrote:

I'm good with boldly proclaiming Trek-style transportation technology simply does not exist in my SWU. I've never really even cared for it in Star Trek either, but it has been a part of the franchise from the beginning so I just accept it as part of that setting.

Well, yeah, me either. In Trek, transporter tech is very nearly as simple and safe as walking down a hallway. What I'm proposing is moderately hazardous, deeply uncomfortable (inflicts Stun damage), bulky and cumbersome, thus only being useful in certain niche applications like combat insertions or emergency extractions.

Quote:

Wormholes do exist in my SWU though, and I am open to the existence of artificially created wormholes using advanced alien "gates" on both ends, but it certainly would not be common tech.

My take is that those sorts of wormholes would be used for interplanetary travel, ala the Stargate network. The mono-node teleporter I'm picturing is only good for much shorter ranges, usually ship-to-ship or low orbit to surface or vice versa.

Quote:

This reminds me of the Gree created by WEG, but IIRC their hypergates were ancient tech that no longer exist or function.

More that the modern Gree have forgotten how they function, as Gree society has hugely devolved from its height.

Quote:

I'm using the idea of mini-wormholes created by a Force power allowing the ability of personal translocation, but the catch is that it doesn't work outside of one specific nebula in one specific satellite galaxy.

Per the Hand of Thrawn duology, this is already a thing. The Aing-Tii monks were able to use translocation powers, and were able to combine their effects to move entire ships across interstellar distances. Granted, this was a thing Zahn made up that has no basis in WEG lore, but since it's Zahn, I'm perfectly fine with keeping it.

Quote:

Anyway, if I followed, this transporter discussion branched off a side comment tangent to Terminator-style time travel. Although wormholes theoretically could also connect two different points in time, I sincerely doubt I would ever run any 'time travel' adventures in Star Wars (again–I've already done that in my youth). It just feels 'off-genre' for Star Wars to me. To each their own though.

Indeed. I think time travel is even more off-genre than Trek-style casual teleportation, which is why I offered teleport insertion from a cloaked ship as an option for the "naked Terminator appears from nowhere with a flash of light" trope. In fact, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to make this an even more limited form of teleportation that will only work on organic material, and either glitches out or destroys any inorganic material in the attempt.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector

Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 4:21 pm Post subject:

CRMcNeill wrote:

garhkal wrote:

I'd just have the gate system.. no teleporter pads. No asgard beams.

I prefer to keep my options open, with advanced teleportation tech being one of the potential tools in the bag of tricks used by advanced alien species.

BUT anything you make, for aliens/enemies, Eventually can get into the hands of PCs... So are you ok WITH THEM being able to teleport??

Whill wrote:

Wormholes do exist in my SWU though, and I am open to the existence of artificially created wormholes using advanced alien "gates" on both ends, but it certainly would not be common tech. This reminds me of the Gree created by WEG, but IIRC their hypergates were ancient tech that no longer exist or function. If these ever appeared in my game, there would have to be a catch. Like, the species who created them are long extinct, and anyone else going through one now goes insane.

Hence why i see Stargates, as potentially being ok. BUT teleporters not.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:29 pm Post subject:

garhkal wrote:

BUT anything you make, for aliens/enemies, Eventually can get into the hands of PCs... So are you ok WITH THEM being able to teleport??

Well, as written, a teleporter weighs 1,000 metric tons and has to be wired into either an urban power grid or installed on a capital ship. On top of that, its Availability is 4, X, and would almost certainly face unfamiliarity modifiers to any Tech or Mech oriented skill rolls to any character trying to make use of it on the fly. EDIT: Also, to truly be of any use, it'd have to be wired into the Scanner systems of whatever its integrated with, in order to provide accurate teleportation placement.

Bottom line, if your PCs manage to get ahold of this tech when you don’t want them to, you have failed in the course of your duties as an evil GM, and should turn in your badge of office immediately.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mamatried
Commodore

Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1829
Location: Norway

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:14 pm Post subject:

CRMcNeill wrote:

garhkal wrote:

BUT anything you make, for aliens/enemies, Eventually can get into the hands of PCs... So are you ok WITH THEM being able to teleport??

Sounds like it takes a few rounds to set uo as well, and I can only imgine how even setting this up for any players would cause all imperial and everyone else to come see and maybe attack.......

I wonder what would be the penalty for posession of one..

Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:36 pm Post subject:

CRMcNeill wrote:

In Trek, transporter tech is very nearly as simple and safe as walking down a hallway. What I'm proposing is moderately hazardous, deeply uncomfortable (inflicts Stun damage), bulky and cumbersome, thus only being useful in certain niche applications like combat insertions or emergency extractions... The mono-node teleporter I'm picturing is only good for much shorter ranges, usually ship-to-ship or low orbit to surface or vice versa.

To me, the teleporter you propose is only slightly better than Star Trek. But if that works for you in Star Wars, then go for it.

CRMcNeill wrote:

More that the modern Gree have forgotten how they function, as Gree society has hugely devolved from its height.

OK, but even if the tech still exists and anyone remembers or figures out how it works, it is thousands of years old so many not still work anymore anyway.

CRMcNeill wrote:

Whill wrote:

Actually, I just got out a WEG book and confirmed that the Aing-Tii were created by WEG and Zahn used them a few years later in the second Hand of Thrawn book. The Aing-Tii first appeared in The Kathol Outback, the second release in The DarkStryder Campaign (first supplement after the box set). Zahn worked on the box set but didn't work on that book.

I've never read Vision of the Future (I gave up on that duology halfway through Specter of the Past). I've never ran or even read through The DarkStyder Campaign in all the years I've had it. Although I can't say with absolute certainty that I hadn't flipped through the DarkStyder books and picked up on that power subconsciously, I do doubt it. I think I got the idea from WEG though. D6 Space has the Metaphysics power Translocation. Maybe D6 Space got it from the Aing-Tii.

CRMcNeill wrote:

I think time travel is even more off-genre than Trek-style casual teleportation

I have to disagree with that, but to each their own.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 10:59 pm Post subject:

Whill wrote:

To me, the teleporter you propose is only slightly better than Star Trek.

This confuses me, as I see what I'm proposing as so fundamentally different from Trek transporters that the only way it could possibly be more different would be if it didn't exist at all. I have written it as exceedingly rare experimental tech that is riddled with flaws, not as a commonplace convenience device that is the go-to for all ship-to-ship or ship-to-surface travel in universe.

Quote:

To be clear, while WEG introduced the Aing-Tii themselves, no mention was ever made of their translocation ability. Their stats merely have them as a space-faring race of Force Sensitive reptilians. The ability of the Aing-Tii to translocate was first introduced by Zahn in Vision of the Future, and no stat write-ups of that ability ever made it into published WEG Star Wars material.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:08 am Post subject:

CRMcNeill wrote:

Whill wrote:

To me, the teleporter you propose is only slightly better than Star Trek.

Sorry, that was a very unqualified statement.

The original range of Trek transporters was only ship to planet surface. The real purpose of its existence in Star Trek was real world budgetary reason–Beaming down to a planet was cheaper than showing a shuttle sequence at the beginning of every episode. Franchise bloat brought in improved capabilities, such as extended ranges, beaming 400 tons, transwarp beaming, and the personal transporter/com badges that exist in the 32nd century. I wouldn't hold the Trek standard to all these sequels. I hold the original Trek transporters as the standard. And in TOS, they had a handful of transporter malfunctions with unintended outcomes, such as splitting a person into two (a good and evil one), switching places with evil universe versions of the people, and others I am probably forgetting.

My issue with transporter tech is not it's convenience as shown in Star Trek. Your crossover proposal for Star Wars is much less convenient, ok. My issue is not even its ubiquity in Trek. Yours is rare, ok. My main issue with Star Trek teleporter tech is its mere existence in fiction. As I stated above, I feel it shouldn't exist in Star Wars, so it doesn't in my SWU. Any version of transporter tech existing in your SWU is not just a mere nudge from my SWU. It is night and day. Literally existence, and non-existence.

As far as it being riddled with flaws, I missed that. I thought you said that it caused stun damage. That is a temporary, non-permanent inconvenience. What are the rest of the many flaws? My definition of a transporter 'riddled with flaws' would be along the lines of you going into the teleporter and (1) There is a good chance it won't work and nothing would happen. (2) There is a chance you are sent to another universe and replaced by an alternate universe version of yourself. (3) There is a chance you are duplicated, but the other you feels they are the real you and you are the copy. (4) There is a chance you are physically fine but you go insane. (5) There is a chance of catastrophic failure, such as you might re-materialize with limbs missing, combined with another person or structure, or inside out. (6) There is a chance the tech would explode when activated, killing all the people attempting to teleport and destroying the teleporter's entire power source. In other words, so flawed that you are extremely desperate or stupid to even risk using it. So flawed that it is an abomination to The Force and shouldn't exist.

I hope this is less confusing, but please don't worry about my standards for Star Wars. I am not attacking your idea. It works for you, and it might work for others.

CRMcNeill wrote:

Quote:

I've never read Vision of the Future (I gave up on that duology halfway through Specter of the Past)... I think I got the idea from WEG though. D6 Space has the Metaphysics power Translocation. Maybe D6 Space got it from the Aing-Tii.

OK, thanks for the clarification. I'll have to read up on the Aing-Tii. But it is still possible that D6 Space got translocation from the Aing-Tii. D6 Space came out a few years after Vision of the Future.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:15 pm Post subject:

Whill wrote:

I feel it shouldn't exist in Star Wars, so it doesn't in my SWU.

Quote:

I hope this is less confusing, but please don't worry about my standards for Star Wars. I am not attacking your idea. It works for you, and it might work for others.

Yes, it helps a lot. Thank you.

Quote:

As far as it being riddled with flaws, I missed that. I thought you said that it caused stun damage. That is a temporary, non-permanent inconvenience.

Yes. Even on a completely successful usage of the teleporter, all subjects suffer 3D Stun Damage. When there's operator error, or a flaw in the system, other, more dangerous things begin to happen. They're described in detail in my stat write-up for a WH40K 1E Teleporter, and were essentially copied over verbatim from the write-up in the original WH40K rulebook, called Rogue Trader. However, to save you the trouble of digging, I'll summarize the malfunction list briefly. A subject can potentially be:

The more I look at the write-up, the more I think it needs a bit of a rewrite to better align with D6 standards, but since the original was written primarily in D6, it was relatively easy to just port it straight over.

Quote:

(4) There is a chance you are physically fine but you go insane.
(5) There is a chance of catastrophic failure, such as you might re-materialize with limbs missing, combined with another person or structure, or inside out.
(6) There is a chance the tech would explode when activated, killing all the people attempting to teleport and destroying the teleporter's entire power source.

These are all excellent ideas for an expanded write-up. Your mention of various expanded aspects of Trek tech reminded me of another possibility from TNG, where a group of terrorists were using interdimensional personal transporters that were rapidly killing their users via radiation poisoning.

Also, in the spirit of the Terminator crossover topic, the teleporter could only work on organic material, which means you arrive at the other end completely naked with no equipment.

It occurs to me that a top secret teleporter could be a very handy plot point to explain why the Inquisitor / Dark Jedi / [insert nemesis descriptor here] always manages to ambush the PCs, or miraculously survive certain death; he gets teleported in to wait for them, then gets emergency teleported out at the moment the reactor detonates / bridge collapses / tunnel caves in / falls into the Sarlacc / whatever. Have the PCs kicking themselves wondering how he keeps surviving, then finally figure it out.

Quote:

(2) There is a chance you are sent to another universe and replaced by an alternate universe version of yourself.
(3) There is a chance you are duplicated, but the other you feels they are the real you and you are the copy.

I prefer to stick to a linear timeline, and not involve time travel or alternate universes any more than I absolutely have to.

Quote:

It's possible, but I consider it unlikely. Plenty of other psychic rule systems for tabletop gaming have included teleportation or similar abilities like dimension door, so I don't think there's enough of a historiographic basis to say that the Aing-Tii's Zahn-given abilities were the primary source.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector

Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:55 am Post subject:

IF it was used to port him out, he'd have to have lots of spare lightsabers and other equipment back home, if he comes back neked. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering

Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16173
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:10 pm Post subject:

garhkal wrote:

IF it was used to port him out, he'd have to have lots of spare lightsabers and other equipment back home, if he comes back neked.

I'd probably save the "organic material only" version for either an early experimental unit or a compact design with design compromises in order to fit it onto a cloaked insertion platform. Being able to port in a small team of very heavily armed warriors for a high-value strike is too integral to the spirit of the original crossover to be removed, IMO.
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Inquisitor1138
Captain
Captain

Joined: 28 Nov 2021
Posts: 601
Location: Hoth. Or Ilum...

Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:01 pm Post subject:

CRMcNeill wrote:

garhkal wrote:

Never really been a fan of teleportational tech for SW.. In other genre's it may make sense, but not for Star wars...

I agree that ubiquitous, convenient teleportation tech (akin to Star Trek) is not a good fit for the SWU. However, there are indications in the EU that it's possible in specific roles.

In the case of my WH40K Teleporter Crossover, it's very uncomfortable (actually inflicts Stun Damage to those using it) and has a very real chance of either disintegrating the subject or horribly disfiguring them in some way.

I see teleportation being based on wormhole tech, creating tunnels from point to point that bypass intervening space/time and shoving a bubble of realspace through to the other side. It exists alongside hyperdrives as a manner of FTL travel, but is too niche to truly replace it. The only real FTL application would be discovering natural wormholes and using Babylon 5-Style Jump Gates to force ships through, with the proviso that it can only be used to travel to a specific location. Artificial wormhole generation (as used in teleporters) could target specific locations, but would only be usable at short ranges (i.e. from planetary orbit to surface, or vice versa, or similar ranges). I'm also keeping wormhole jump drives on the back burner for advanced races like Eldar and Necrons for my WH40K crossover concept.

That was effectively done in some of the Gree-related events & PvP missions in SWTOR; The 'Transporter' was more like the one in TRON, used on Ilum to enter & leave the Grey Secant, & in another to enter a virtual reality to fix a problem in a computer's 'mind'.
There's a PvP map where the in-universe story behind it is the enemy faction trying to secure the Gree Hypergate for their use, so it's a MacGuffin & a cool cutscene or two. Also cool, is a character-scale Hypergate that is a regen-toy, healing your character but can't be used in combat, or using it takes you out of combat.
Anyway, i have limited use of some Gree Tech by NPCs, but in general, i treat most Gree/Rakata/Kwa tech like DarkStryder tech; mysterious, potentially game-changing, but also unpredictable, unreliable & probably dangerous.
When i brought the Imperium, Eldar & Necrons into my Mercenaries campaign, i confined it to a portion of the Unknown Regions, limiting contact between those groups & the greater galaxy. Only one character was using Necron tech, and kept the systems as simple as possible. Honestly, the hardest part for me was learning enough about the fantasy race Kamael from the MMO "AION" to figure out how to incorporate them into D6 & lore-wise.

Whill & others raise plenty of good points, ideas & observations. Several of which i will be keeping in mind as i develop plot threads. I agree with most if not all of CRMcNeill's reasoning regarding Terminator-like infiltrators & other advanced tech discussed here. I may adapt his ideas as a Separatist group's "Plan B" after the overt nightmare fuel i am working on; mad scientists have made elite battle droids inspired by General Grievous, & HRDs/ZRDs inspired by Darth Maul, Separatist factories are mass-producing them in vast quantities, but the logistics of transporting them has not yet been addressed...
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Dr. Bidlo
Commander

Joined: 24 Nov 2021
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:39 am Post subject:

In my campaign, there is a remnant of the Separatist droid army that continued to operate after the droid army was shut down. It has continued to replicate itself through factories and evolve. Though it is not the Terminator, there are elements. I have kept away from the Terminator technology, however, but will continue to watch this thread.

willg
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 202

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:43 pm Post subject:

CRMcNeill wrote:

garhkal wrote:

Well, in terminator lore (Terminator 3), it took over damn near every computer in the world, when it was 'unleashed'.. and even the best hackers couldn't stop it...

Terminator 3 lore has some conflicts, though. If you look at earlier lore, the breakthrough that allowed for SkyNet to be developed was hardware-based, developed from the CPU of the Terminator from T1. T3 changed SkyNet by making it software based, almost like a sentient computer virus. Honestly, T3 was where the film franchise went off the rails for me. I rather like Terminator: Salvation, but I select from everything else based on whether it fits or conflicts with the first two films.

Plus, the SWU doesn't have anything near the modern world's level of computer networking, so any SkyNet analog would almost certainly have to be a mainframe-scale droid brain in a bunker somewhere, not a software-based program in a network. So, yeah, it almost certainly has excellent Computer Programming skills, but the analogy doesn't carry across the boundaries between the setting.

I've read a lot of fan theories that speculate the "postponing" of Judgement Day may not have always been a factor, if anything, the presence of the original T800s processor accelerated development but Skynet was always a software-based "lifeform".

willg
Lieutenant Commander

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 202

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:47 pm Post subject:

CRMcNeill wrote:

garhkal wrote:

BUT anything you make, for aliens/enemies, Eventually can get into the hands of PCs... So are you ok WITH THEM being able to teleport??

Perhaps not aquire the tech but gain access to it long enough touse it.

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