The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Personal History with D&D
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Miscellanea -> Personal History with D&D Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sutehp
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Yeah, kinda silly for players to try to hold a GM accountable to rules in a book he doesn't even own.


How would that even work? Yeah, I don't get it either. Shocked
_________________
Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KageRyu
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1385
Location: Lost in the cracks

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutehp wrote:
Whill wrote:
Yeah, kinda silly for players to try to hold a GM accountable to rules in a book he doesn't even own.


How would that even work? Yeah, I don't get it either. Shocked

Well, when players have tried that with me in the past it usually went one of 2 ways:
1) One player, let's call him the patsy, is nominated by the group to purchase said book and then bring it to sessions and perpetually argue with me showing said book as reference until I get fed up and eject him from he game.

2) Player reference said new book, and demand I purchase it and abide by it or they will stop playing, which results in a total party kill and end of game.

I have always had a long standing rule that if I am running the game I am running the game. Only rules and books I have are used except in rare circumstances, and house rules, while they may be put to the group for a vote, are entirely at my discretion.

Now, the exception, if a player has a book I do not have with some character type, ability, or equipment in it and asks me to use it, I may consider it, but said player must provide me with said material to review and keep for reference (like photocopies of the relevant pages). If I like the contents of the book enough, it would likely get added to my collection at some point.
_________________
"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
ThrorII
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 12 Jul 2019
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

ThrorII wrote:
I've pretty much played B/X D&D exclusively for several years now

Wow, it is really neat that BX is still being played!



So 5e is better than 3.5, in the sense that 3.5 had a ton of crunch. As a DM, it took a lot to game prep. 5e has its own pitfalls, mainly that each character is basically a superhero and can subvert every encounter.

RE: B/X. Yes, my adult group has played it non stop for a couple years now. I feel it really is the best version of D&D. I even run a 2x a month game for my kids and their friends (ages 13-16).
_________________
"The internet is a pathway to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural." - Sheev Zuckerberg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KageRyu wrote:
I have always had a long standing rule that if I am running the game I am running the game. Only rules and books I have are used except in rare circumstances, and house rules, while they may be put to the group for a vote, are entirely at my discretion.

Now, the exception, if a player has a book I do not have with some character type, ability, or equipment in it and asks me to use it, I may consider it, but said player must provide me with said material to review and keep for reference (like photocopies of the relevant pages). If I like the contents of the book enough, it would likely get added to my collection at some point.

That's all quite reasonable.

KageRyu wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, kinda silly for players to try to hold a GM accountable to rules in a book he doesn't even own.

Well, when players have tried that with me in the past it usually went one of 2 ways:
1) One player, let's call him the patsy, is nominated by the group to purchase said book and then bring it to sessions and perpetually argue with me showing said book as reference until I get fed up and eject him from he game.

2) Player reference said new book, and demand I purchase it and abide by it or they will stop playing, which results in a total party kill and end of game.

One advantage of playing WEG Star Wars, a dead game I already own everything for, is that no one could just show up with a book I don't own. But nothing like this would ever happen at my game table anyway because I make it very explicit up front players don't make demands and ultimatums to me. Like you said, I am happy to consider polite requests for consideration of alternate rules (whether from published books, or proposed house rules), but it is a discussion, it happens outside of game night, and I have the final say. But that last part is not even my rule. It says that in R&E. That rule, by intentional design, is the "one rule" to rule them all.

But I think it is also the difference of the games/systems too. Multiple versions of D&D have "PC options" galore, so creating and advancing a character is like taking different lego blocks from more and more available lego sets and building it. Star Wars is not without power gamers (a disease infecting the entire game community), but D&D by its nature is more conducive to power gaming. Players demanding certain rules that make their individual PCs more powerful don't care about making a good group story. That's one reason I am not into D&D that much.

ThrorII wrote:
So 5e is better than 3.5, in the sense that 3.5 had a ton of crunch. As a DM, it took a lot to game prep. 5e has its own pitfalls, mainly that each character is basically a superhero and can subvert every encounter.

Glad to hear that 5e has less crunch than 3.5. It sounds like 5e has taken to heart the complaint that 1st level characters start too weak, so it is important to for a DM to achieve a balanced challenge level so the PCs aren't so super all the time.

ThrorII wrote:
RE: B/X. Yes, my adult group has played it non stop for a couple years now. I feel it really is the best version of D&D. I even run a 2x a month game for my kids and their friends (ages 13-16).

That's awesome!
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
KageRyu
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1385
Location: Lost in the cracks

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Star Wars is not without power gamers (a disease infecting the entire game community), but D&D by its nature is more conducive to power gaming. Players demanding certain rules that make their individual PCs more powerful don't care about making a good group story.

I feel this has always been an unfortunate reality of gaming. The exponential rise of video gaming popularity has only exacerbated it I feel too. I know I saw more attempts at power gaming, meta-gaming, munchkinism, etc... from player who were avid players of JRPGs in the 90's, and heading into and post millennium with the rise of MMORPGs. One of the players in my last Star Wars group was in fact an avid player of the online SW game at the time (was it galaxies) - and not only was always bragging about cheats and exploits he used in that game to succeed, but was always looking for some cheat or exploit or loophole in the rules at the tabletop. In a different game based on Heroes Unlimited I had a similar player enthralled with FPS games whose character was a walking trenchcoat arsenal whose first response was to shoot everything (he did not last). I feel this will always be an aspect of gaming, as some players (and GMs too) do not seem to fully grasp it is not a game of winning and losing, but joint fun and adventure (I have seen my share of threads here that read as GM vs Players...and it does sort of sadden me especially with Star Wars D6). I think that Champions 4th Edition addressed this best with an entire chapter dedicated to power gaming examples and the whys and why nots of it. Honestly, if you can find the book to read just for that chapter, its worth it for the laughs.

Dungeons and Dragons has always seemed to lean in to this type of gaming. Though not explicitly in the rules, the whole dungeon crawl trope has been well established since long before I played. It has been spoken of, parodied, outright mocked, denied, and pandered to almost since D&D began. 3rd and 3.5 edition I feel only made things worse by re-writing the rules and adding all these feats and abilities that could quickly overpower a character in an attempt to more closely resemble popular video role playing games. I always felt this was a bad move. One of the game magazines even had a chapter in the back dedicated to power gaming to show you which feats to stack to exploit the best bonuses (and it was when they started doing this I stopped my subscription).

Even as I look back at my post, I see now I have grown far too old and bitter, and this is why my Role Playing days are probably behind me. I miss it...but it has been 16 years already since I last gamed... the desire to try to find a new group...heck to even go outside...just isn't in me anymore.

Though, on a lighter note, some of you may find these amusing:
Game Mastering
Player Creation
_________________
"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14022
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Happy Birthmonth! Yeah, kinda silly for players to try to hold a GM accountable to rules in a book he doesn't even own.


Back in london, where i GOT that rule from a fellow DM, He actually had to KICK someone out, because that brat of a kid (17 yrs old), kept trying to DEMAND HE allow the use of something from one of the Sabbat books in his Werewolf and mage campaign, when the DM flat out said "I don't even USE ANY of the stuff from vampire. So why would i allow anything specific to the sabbat!"??

KageRyu wrote:

Now, the exception, if a player has a book I do not have with some character type, ability, or equipment in it and asks me to use it, I may consider it, but said player must provide me with said material to review and keep for reference (like photocopies of the relevant pages). If I like the contents of the book enough, it would likely get added to my collection at some point.


I had a player for a SW game, BUY me a book (Scouts galaxy guide) because he wanted to use something from it.. Got it on sale (iirc was 5 bucks at a 2nd hand store).. AND that i fully allowed, because i HAD the book now.. Had a few others OFFER to buy a book, but only one other followed through..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pakman
Commander
Commander


Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the "history with DND..".


A long time ago...
I started - a long time ago in a grade far far away - I think 1980, when a baby sitter invited a friend over to teach us kids this DND thing to keep us busy...and the rest - as they say, is history....

Still have my old 1st ed books, most of my 2nd ed, and most of the modules back in the day. (foolishly loaned out my original fiend folio years ago, no idea now where it is).

Time after time
Had the most of the editions over the years (except 3, and 4 I think...) as after playing for many years - migrated to other systems both fantasy (played rolemaster for years, and even some runequest) and others (gamma world, morrow project, gurps, traveller, star frontiers, etc.). Oh yeah, and in the late 80s.... star wars d6.

Briefly played some later edition dnd - one of the ones after WOTC took them over - did not love all the changes - but some - did - like the normalization of stat bonuses (back in my day kids, we had to remember that a 17 str and wisdom had different bonuses.....).

Fast Forward ...
Eventually, made it back to DND - with 5th edition.
While it still has what i consider to be some downsides in design, overall - I was incredibly impressed at how well written the rules are.

They managed that sweet spot of covering the rule, and the next question you would have on the rule, in as few words as possible.
As someone who had been reading RPG rulebooks of one kind or another for decades - I was impressed.

(again, not talking about the merits or flaws of the game design - but how well that design was documented and presented).

Today
Still playing a DND5e game - it has many of the same members of as my star wars group and is a ton of fun. We mostly play remote - as we started during covid (covid ended our last star wars game - a long running d20 saga game) and are still remote.

I have to say - I do love the convenience of dndbeyond for managing characters - (and looking up rules) and would love to have something similar for star wars (not for playing - don't want roll20 etc.) but an online character management that supports house rules.... but I digress.

oh, and as far as the other stuff....yeah, will save my comments if another thread gets created in the GM forum.
_________________
SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Personal History with D&D Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
D&D Basic (Holmes, 1977)

This second edition of D&D came out before AD&D even started coming out... I've never owned this version but it was the first D&D I played. I fondly remember this "blue book," the first RPG rulebook I ever read for the first RPG I ever played...



In elementary school a good friend of mine was RJ, who was the same age as me but he was a genius with a college reading level (today he is a medical school professor). I went over to his apartment one 1981 morning, came across some D&D stuff and asked him about it... We soon got the other kids lined up and made characters. RJ ran the first RPG adventure I ever played in, B2 The Keep on the Borderlands. The Keep was our PC group's base of operations for the first few levels of the campaign.


...

D&D BX (Moldvay, 1981)

This is the fourth overall edition of D&D. While the first Basic Set was somewhat compatible with AD&D, the game system of this new edition is further away from AD&D, making this a more distinctly separate version of the game compared to the three prior editions.



After our group had moved on to A&D, Santa brought me the new D&D Basic Set for Christmas of 1981 which came with the (newly revised) B2 module I had just finished playing... All I have left from my BX Expert box set is the Expert Rulebook (which I store in my BX Basic box).
...

AD&D ("1e" ...continued)

...I was inspired by DC Comics' Crisis on Infinite Earths series to begin planning a new campaign, but this time it would use AD&D rules... I created a map for the prime material universe campaign world and began detailing the world.
...

"BECMI" (Mentzer, 1983-85)

In addition to revised Basic and Expert box sets, the revised system is extended with three more box sets...


I got out my BX Basic box set last night and looked inside to find that I had another D&D item I had forgotten about, but let me give a little background in chronological order. The original D&D was created by Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax, the latter creating TSR to publish D&D and the former leaving TSR in 1976. In my research to write the OP I learned about the history of the B1 and B2 adventure modules which I had never known...



There had been several versions of the original D&D Basic game ('77). Originally you could buy just the blue rule booklet or a box set, but the original boxed set had no adventure module included. Instead it had Dungeon Geomorphs and Monster & Treasure Assortment booklets. Dave Arneson got royalties for the rulebook in the book set, but his box set royalties were the same per unit as for the rulebooks sold separately, and thus his box set royalties were not based on the higher price of the box set as a whole, so he filed a lawsuit against TSR for more royalties.

In '78 TSR published B1 In Search of the Unknown as the first adventure module made for use with the Basic game. It was written as a 'How to DM' tutorial. It provided a story and dungeon, but the dungeon was only keyed with room descriptions. It provided monster and treasure lists, so the DMs had to key the monsters and treasures to the dungeon locations as they saw fit. The module was written by Mike Carr, who was a good friend of Dave Arneson.



As a legal strategy, Gygax stopped publishing the Basic rulebook separately and started publishing a new version of the Basic Set in '78 that removed the original supplemental booklets and replaced them with the B1 module, giving the B1 author a very good royalties deal. So now, Arneson's lawsuit would be asking to take money directly out of his own friend's pocket. (Gygax also refused to pay Arneson any royalties for the AD&D books that were being published because of the word "Advanced" in front of the D&D.) In the '79 the dice shortage occurred so, for a while, the Basic Set included coupon to order dice and numbered chits, which ThrorII said was the version he had. The Basic Set sales really took off in '79, so Gygax solely wrote a new module B2 The Keep on the Borderlands to replace B1 in the Basic Set (and to sell separately), which put even more money in Gygax's own pockets in '80.

I do not remember if RJ had the B1 module, but I know for sure the first time I ever roleplayed, I was a player being ran through B2 by RJ. It took several game sessions to get through, and the Keep itself was our group's base of operations during the early levels of our campaign. It is possible that RJ had both modules, ran B2 first, and later ran B1 and I don't remember that, but I feel it is more likely that he had the original Basic Set that came with the blue rulebook and the B2 module because he definitely had both of those and that is what was readily available '80-81.

At the end of '81, the new "BX" Basic boxed set included a new version of the B2 module. A new version of B1 was published separately, updated for the BX version of the game and given a brown cover with different artwork.



I don't remember if I had ever seen the B1 module by '87, but in that year TSR published B1-9 In Search of Adventure a BECMI edition compilation that included revised material from those nine originally unrelated modules and wove them into single campaign story. I remember being interested in B1, the first of the "series," that was definitely not still available for sale separately anywhere I knew about. So I bought the new book intending to adapt it to AD&D and use it for the campaign I was planning. I was a bit disappointed. Most of the modules had a lot of material cut out of them for this compilation. For B1, they actually only included the map of the dungeon and nothing else, stating that it was included as a "bonus map" the DM could populate and add to the campaign on their own if they wanted. Not long after getting this book, I got WEG Star Wars and the rest is history. I got rid of this book at some point, never having used it.



In this century I wanted to track down a copy of B1 for "collection completeness" since my D&D BX set only has the module numbered B2. B1 always cost more money than I wanted to spend. But back in 2018 I found a reprint of it on eBay so bought it. It is a reprint of the original Basic D&D version with a monochromatic yellow cover and a section which refers to using it with AD&D, something that I read was removed from the BX version of the module. When it came in the mail I flipped through it, put it in my BX Basic box, and forgot about it until last night. I've never ran it (or played it as far as I know), so if I ever run a mini-campaign for BX D&D, I'll have to start with B1 then finish with B2.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
pakman
Commander
Commander


Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember B1, it was one of our first adventures once my friends and I in school started playing. I recall one room in particular - that had magic pools of some kind - and drinking them gave different random magical effects.

We later cleared it out and tried to turn it into a base if I recall.

One funny note - the pools in there were an inspiration for another character to try rotted poisoned food in an adventurer - much to the surprise of the rest of the party.

I had seen the monochrome version of the module, and have the later edition.

It may have been years later that we eventually hit up keep of the borderlands.
_________________
SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KageRyu wrote:
Quote:
Star Wars is not without power gamers (a disease infecting the entire game community), but D&D by its nature is more conducive to power gaming. Players demanding certain rules that make their individual PCs more powerful don't care about making a good group story.

I feel this has always been an unfortunate reality of gaming. The exponential rise of video gaming popularity has only exacerbated it I feel too

Good point about video games. Murderhoboism is a very 'video game' type of mentality. Something I always remind players in session zeros is that this isn't a video game, so the goal isn't to kill everyone and loot their bodies.

KageRyu wrote:
I feel this will always be an aspect of gaming, as some players (and GMs too) do not seem to fully grasp it is not a game of winning and losing, but joint fun and adventure (I have seen my share of threads here that read as GM vs Players...and it does sort of sadden me especially with Star Wars D6)

The GM v players mentality saddens me when I read it too, especially in Star Wars. That defies the purpose of collaborating to create a good story, which should be the unified goal the GM and all players. And please continue speaking out against 'GM v Players' attitudes when you read them here.

KageRyu wrote:
I think that Champions 4th Edition addressed this best with an entire chapter dedicated to power gaming examples and the whys and why nots of it. Honestly, if you can find the book to read just for that chapter, its worth it for the laughs.

This? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/155806043X/

I just might have to pick that up. The cover art was done by my favorite comic book artist, George Pérez. I have a few superhero RPGs already, but from what I read this one is highly acclaimed as one of the best ever.

KageRyu wrote:
Dungeons and Dragons has always seemed to lean in to this type of gaming. Though not explicitly in the rules, the whole dungeon crawl trope has been well established since long before I played. It has been spoken of, parodied, outright mocked, denied, and pandered to almost since D&D began. 3rd and 3.5 edition I feel only made things worse by re-writing the rules and adding all these feats and abilities that could quickly overpower a character in an attempt to more closely resemble popular video role playing games. I always felt this was a bad move. One of the game magazines even had a chapter in the back dedicated to power gaming to show you which feats to stack to exploit the best bonuses (and it was when they started doing this I stopped my subscription).

This reminded me that I had subscribed to Dragon Magazine for two years so had a straight run of issues from sometime in '84 to sometime in '86. One of them had a satire solitaire adventure called "Nogard" where players could run their ridiculously powerful characters through it, and they ended up forever "retired" in Nogard. This was during the 1e days but IIRC they did announce that 2e was in development by the end of my run. I sold them long ago.

But somewhere along the way they realized that players are a larger customer base than DMs, and unfortunately players include powergamers, so they cater to them too. Its disgusting.

KageRyu wrote:
Even as I look back at my post, I see now I have grown far too old and bitter, and this is why my Role Playing days are probably behind me. I miss it...but it has been 16 years already since I last gamed... the desire to try to find a new group...heck to even go outside...just isn't in me anymore.

I hope that's not true and you do get to roleplay again.

pakman wrote:
A long time ago...

Thanks for sharing your history.

pakman wrote:
Briefly played some later edition dnd - one of the ones after WOTC took them over - did not love all the changes - but some - did - like the normalization of stat bonuses (back in my day kids, we had to remember that a 17 str and wisdom had different bonuses.....).

Normalizing the bonus from stats between abilities was a step in the right direction, but when I played 3e/3.5 I remember thinking, why even have the ability score? Why not just have the bonus as the stat directly? Instead of STR 16 why can't it just be STR +3? I don't like game stats pointlessly derivative and overly referenced. That's what I like about SWD6. The stat is directly the base number of dice that I roll. Is there any direct purpose to the particular scale of the ability scores?

pakman wrote:
again, not talking about the merits or flaws of the game design - but how well that design was documented and presented

Presentation is important. It seems absolutely vital for D&D, which is overly complicated. But it is still a little sad that they will put so much effort into making the system understandable as-is and not as much into making the system itself better. But hey, that's me. A lot of people seem to like it.

pakman wrote:
I have to say - I do love the convenience of dndbeyond for managing characters - (and looking up rules) and would love to have something similar for star wars (not for playing - don't want roll20 etc.) but an online character management that supports house rules.... but I digress.

In general I would encourage everyone to cancel their subscriptions to D&D Beyond, but of course whatever you do is your own business. The rules searching may not be quite as convenient but here is the fully legal PDF of SRD 5.1 with the Creative Commons license, irrevocably shared by D&D Beyond directly (as referred to in the OGL thread).
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
KageRyu
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1385
Location: Lost in the cracks

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
This? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/155806043X/

I just might have to pick that up. The cover art was done by my favorite comic book artist, George Pérez. I have a few superhero RPGs already, but from what I read this one is highly acclaimed as one of the best ever.

Yup, that's it.
Champions is... different. It has a steep learning curve as player or GM, and it is not always readily apparent how to get the exact power you want. It does have the potential for a lot of creativity though, and once you get a handle on "Building" a power from a basic power with added perks and flaws you have nearly unlimited creativity. To truly get the most out of it requires both players and GMs to have a decent working knowledge of the game. My first few plays at it, the GM was not well versed, and I knew nothing and ended up frustrated because I could not get the powers the way I wanted them. I then bought the books and read up myself, but never ran it. In my opinion that version of the Champions rules was it's pinnacle, and I felt later editions just went downhill (especially Fuzion).
For Super Hero games I started with Heroes Unlimited by Palladium (mixed with TMNT, Ninjas and Superspies, and Recon). After writing so many house rules and modifications as to have almost rewritten the game I wanted a superhero game with more freedom and versatility. I really liked the Mayfair Games version of DC and played that for a very long time (lots of custom heros and villains in it).

I would have liked to have played more Champions.
_________________
"There's a set way to gain new Force Points and it represents a very nice system, where you're rewarded for heroism, not for being a poor conductor to electricity." ~Jachra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
fogger1138
Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Joined: 25 Feb 2021
Posts: 93
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Personal History with D&D Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Yeah, I remember the whole 'D&D is satanic' era. We were churchgoing people, but thankfully my parents weren't like that. They got me the D&D BX set in elementary school, and my mom got me the three AD&D core books in junior high. Maybe they just trusted me because I had been into KISS since 1978 and they had observed it didn't make me the slightest bit murderous, suicidal, or satanic. Glad you at least had fun with it, sneaking around to play D&D.


My Youth Pastor tried to tell me (in 1993, no less) that the Star Wars RPG was Satanic "because all of those games derive from D&D". I just kind of laughed it off and never talked to him about it again.

KageRyu wrote:
I feel this will always be an aspect of gaming, as some players (and GMs too) do not seem to fully grasp it is not a game of winning and losing, but joint fun and adventure (I have seen my share of threads here that read as GM vs Players...and it does sort of sadden me especially with Star Wars D6).


I used to be of the "GM vs Players" mindset - even when I just had a story in mind, it was me trying to enforce it on them. I grew out of it. I've gotten a lot more collaborative with my players, particularly in recent years.

KageRyu wrote:
Even as I look back at my post, I see now I have grown far too old and bitter, and this is why my Role Playing days are probably behind me. I miss it...but it has been 16 years already since I last gamed... the desire to try to find a new group...heck to even go outside...just isn't in me anymore


I started gaming again in 2020 after about 18 years away from it, and I started with the second group of players I ever had. I hope you can find that again...

KageRyu wrote:
For Super Hero games I started with Heroes Unlimited by Palladium (mixed with TMNT, Ninjas and Superspies, and Recon). After writing so many house rules and modifications as to have almost rewritten the game I wanted a superhero game with more freedom and versatility. I really liked the Mayfair Games version of DC and played that for a very long time (lots of custom heros and villains in it).


We were looking for a superhero game when I was in college, and White Wolf had just come out with their Aberrant system and setting. We ended up using their rules and tossing out most of the setting bits we didn't like (played it more straight superheroes and less skulduggery).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10286
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Personal History with D&D Reply with quote

KageRyu wrote:
Quote:
This? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/155806043X/

I just might have to pick that up. The cover art was done by my favorite comic book artist, George Pérez. I have a few superhero RPGs already, but from what I read this one is highly acclaimed as one of the best ever.

Yup, that's it.
Champions is... different. It has a steep learning curve as player or GM, and it is not always readily apparent how to get the exact power you want. It does have the potential for a lot of creativity though, and once you get a handle on "Building" a power from a basic power with added perks and flaws you have nearly unlimited creativity. To truly get the most out of it requires both players and GMs to have a decent working knowledge of the game. My first few plays at it, the GM was not well versed, and I knew nothing and ended up frustrated because I could not get the powers the way I wanted them. I then bought the books and read up myself, but never ran it. In my opinion that version of the Champions rules was it's pinnacle, and I felt later editions just went downhill (especially Fuzion).

I have an Amazon gift card balance so pulled the trigger on Champions 4e. It's a POD so I have to wait for it to be printed. From what I've read this is the most popular version of the game (why a long out-of-print 1989 game is available as POD) despite the system being overly crunchy. Since it is extremely unlikely I will ever play it, it is not a practical purchase, but that is beautiful cover art. I'll be sure to look for the power gamer section after I get it.

KageRyu wrote:
For Super Hero games I started with Heroes Unlimited by Palladium (mixed with TMNT, Ninjas and Superspies, and Recon). After writing so many house rules and modifications as to have almost rewritten the game I wanted a superhero game with more freedom and versatility. I really liked the Mayfair Games version of DC and played that for a very long time (lots of custom heros and villains in it).

My first superhero game was TSR's original Marvel game (FASERIP). We made original heroes but the adventures took place in the Marvel universe. I think I was the sole GM for it. We played that several times but we eventually went back to D&D. I really wish I had never gotten rid of it because it is too expensive to replace now.

As far as Mayfair DC, I only have two things. I have an '88 Wonder Woman sourcebook for 1e that includes a solitaire adventure which doesn't require the main game rules to play. It features a beautiful cover by George Pérez. I guess they were probably trying to get comic fans to sample the game. I also have the Batman RPG from '89 which I understand is a simplified version of the 2e Mayfair DC game that came out the same year. The Batman RPG was clearly to tie in with the movie that year. I got both of these when they first came out, and I do not remember if I ever tried out the Batman game but it is possible.

I have the WEG DC Universe game (box set and JSA Sourcebook) but IIRC I have only played it once. I have DC Adventures (2010), a DC-flavored core book using Mutants & Masterminds 3e, a OGL d20 variant. It's a very nicely presented book and loaded with cool comic art. I also have a Golden Age era supplement for M&M 2e. I've never played DC Adventures or M&M in general.

I also have a Marvel Universe RPG core book (2003, published by Marvel Comics directly) that I got used for cheap just to have a Marvel RPG in my collection. I've never played it. It is now just a placeholder because a new Marvel RPG is coming out this year that I will get.

fogger1138 wrote:
My Youth Pastor tried to tell me (in 1993, no less) that the Star Wars RPG was Satanic "because all of those games derive from D&D". I just kind of laughed it off and never talked to him about it again.

Shocked I have never heard of that!

In my experience the judgmental 'hell and damnation' types of people who ignorantly proclaim things as satanic might be against D&D but don't even understand roleplaying enough to understand that a Star Wars RPG is the same general type of game. So kudos to that youth pastor for even understanding that D&D and WEG Star Wars were both RPGs!

Proclaiming an RPG as satanic past the 80s is outlier. Proclaiming a non-D&D RPG as satanic is outlier. Proclaiming the WEG Star Wars game as satanic was unheard of. In my experience the same people who might think of D&D as corrupting give Star Wars roleplaying a pass.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14022
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starwars Satanic?? I wonder what he'd think of the Sabbat source book for vampire!!
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pakman
Commander
Commander


Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of DND history....

One of the most fun adventure series that I did for Star Wars - was converting some of the old DND modules (did some star frontiers as well...but that is another topic).

I took the old classic A1-A4 (which I have all the originals - dang...I am old) and adopted them for star wars.

I could get long winded on this (and have on many similar posts in the past in various boards forums and reddits) but basically - you can convert almost anything to almost anything. The story is the key - the concepts of encounters, and types of challenges for pcs. Yes, obviously some things may not have enough - but overall - it is not difficult- when you look at it less as a series of stats, and instead a series scenes in a story.

Here is a very high level version:

A1 - Secret of the slavers stockade.
Party travels to a planet just outside of hutt space, following a lead to Highpoint station on some slavers. The find that the slaver leader they are looking for, is using an old gammorean temple as a staging and storage ground for transporting slaves. Supposedly, the lower levels are accessible via the city sewers....

A2 - Secret of the Slavers Stockade
Tracking the slavers council to a compound where they have restored an old abandoned clone wars era separtist base ....

A3 - Assault on the Slave Lords...
On a lawless outer rim shadow port, the part attempts to infiltrate a settlement in alignment with the ruthless slave lords, as the base of a smouldering volcano...

A4 - In the dungeons of the slave lords
Captured and imprisoned by the slave lords, a party with no gear or supplies must survive and escape when an earthquake opens their cells to ancient lava tubes beneath a rumbling mountain.

It was a blast - and obviously, some encounters has to be modified (the basilisks had a paralyzing venom, not a magical gaze, the guy with the ring of resist fire, was instead wearing a special type of thermal field used by firefighting droids, etc.).

the party loved it - as it still had some of the classical dungeon crawl feel - and were intrigued by how things were adapted.

For me, it was cool dusting off those old DND modules I had not used since the 80s....

I had worked on an adventure using the Secret of Saltmarsh (one of my favorite dnd modules) but ...sadly, it has been too long - and I don't remember all the details. (I think the smugglers had a small mon-cal freighter, that came into a hidden grotto to bypass customs at the local star port, etc..). Hmmm....now I want to try and run that one again....hmmmmm
_________________
SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Miscellanea All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0