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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14030
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | My mathematical instinct gives me a knee jerk reaction to the idea of adding wound level based on Strength. High Strength characters and creatures already have a better chance of being less effected by damage baked into every single damage roll against them. Adding additional damage levels based on Strength seems like it would exponentiate the resistance. It could also make low Strength characters too easy to kill.
I agree that creatures should be an appropriate scale based on their size and mass. |
So how's about there is the standard 1 wound for mooks only, 2 wound levels before incap, but certain beasts are so large, as to warrant a 3rd wound level or maybe even a 4th? So its NOT linked to just Str, but size!
| Quote: | | 4 - players used called shots to try and target more vulnerable areas. |
OR if they 'call a shot', they get to add to damage, how well they hit by, ala the Rules of Engagements possibilities (say +1 per 3 over).
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pakman
Commander
Joined: 20 Jul 2021
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: |
So how's about there is the standard 1 wound for mooks only, 2 wound levels before incap, but certain beasts are so large, as to warrant a 3rd wound level or maybe even a 4th? So its NOT linked to just Str, but size!
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Yeah, I like that - or I might tie it to scale (I have slightly different scales).
Not sure yet - I have not reviewed critters yet for my house rules - only so many hours in the day.... sigh.
Thanks for your suggestion.
| garhkal wrote: |
OR if they 'call a shot', they get to add to damage, how well they hit by, ala the Rules of Engagements possibilities (say +1 per 3 over). |
Actually, I already have something similar to that as a default. Except it is about 4 over or so.
I was thinking more of the Called shot from page 96 of reup - targeting a more vulnerable area to get a bonus damage (the chart lists for example head shot location giving +12 to damage etc.).
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10293
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Whill wrote: | My mathematical instinct gives me a knee jerk reaction to the idea of adding wound level based on Strength. High Strength characters and creatures already have a better chance of being less effected by damage baked into every single damage roll against them. Adding additional damage levels based on Strength seems like it would exponentiate the resistance. It could also make low Strength characters too easy to kill.
I agree that creatures should be an appropriate scale based on their size and mass. |
So how's about there is the standard 1 wound for mooks only, 2 wound levels before incap, but certain beasts are so large, as to warrant a 3rd wound level or maybe even a 4th? So its NOT linked to just Str, but size! |
But large creatures already get the benefit of being a higher scale, so adding another wound level too would be double whammy for me.
| garhkal wrote: | | OR if they 'call a shot', they get to add to damage, how well they hit by, ala the Rules of Engagements possibilities (say +1 per 3 over). |
Other than spaceship system targeting, I don't allow called shots due to my interpretive hit location system (post-damage roll).
I do however use a skill damage bonus, so high attack rolls do get a bonus to damage.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10293
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| KageRyu wrote: |
Yup, that's it.
Champions is... different. It has a steep learning curve as player or GM, and it is not always readily apparent how to get the exact power you want. It does have the potential for a lot of creativity though, and once you get a handle on "Building" a power from a basic power with added perks and flaws you have nearly unlimited creativity. To truly get the most out of it requires both players and GMs to have a decent working knowledge of the game. My first few plays at it, the GM was not well versed, and I knew nothing and ended up frustrated because I could not get the powers the way I wanted them. I then bought the books and read up myself, but never ran it. In my opinion that version of the Champions rules was it's pinnacle, and I felt later editions just went downhill (especially Fuzion). |
I got it this week and had a chance to look through it. It's beautiful. I could at least justify this expenditure as a cross-collection purchase since I have a lot of George Pérez comics and a beautiful poster set that came out last year after he died. Plus a worn Pérez Wonder Woman poster from 1987 that is hanging right beside me as I type. This game is a popular superhero game, this is the most popular edition, and it just happens to have front and back cover art by Pérez.
The box set reproduction is well done. The game system definitely looks crunchy but sometimes crunchy games have some useful crumbs here and there. I found the Are You A Powergamer? section at the back of the character creation rules. It gives a few funny examples of characters.
PlanetMan can shrink planets down the size of his pockets, and when he is annoyed he can get one out, turn off the shrinking then teleport himself to safety in another dimension. Planets cause 86d6 damage. Seems a bit low, lol.
Azathoth sits at the center of the universe, and he has the limitation that all of his powers only work there (except for teleport which only works everywhere else). He has Multipower with every power. He has the power to see anything in the universe with Telescopic Vision then blast it with N-ray Vision.
Landlord has the power to build a base with grounds that cover the known universe. He bought it so he owns everything. He has 4 billion loyal followers.
NovaMan has an explosive temper. If bothered, he explodes causing 700d6 damage to everything in a 1 km, but he is immune to his own power.
It seems the point is that even though this system has the creativity to create things like this, you obviously shouldn't.
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | ...
The box set reproduction is well done. The game system definitely looks crunchy but sometimes crunchy games have some useful crumbs here and there. I found the Are You A Powergamer? section at the back of the character creation rules. It gives a few funny examples of characters.
PlanetMan can shrink planets down the size of his pockets, and when he is annoyed he can get one out, turn off the shrinking then teleport himself to safety in another dimension. Planets cause 86d6 damage. Seems a bit low, lol.
Azathoth sits at the center of the universe, and he has the limitation that all of his powers only work there (except for teleport which only works everywhere else). He has Multipower with every power. He has the power to see anything in the universe with Telescopic Vision then blast it with N-ray Vision.
Landlord has the power to build a base with grounds that cover the known universe. He bought it so he owns everything. He has 4 billion loyal followers.
NovaMan has an explosive temper. If bothered, he explodes causing 700d6 damage to everything in a 1 km, but he is immune to his own power.
It seems the point is that even though this system has the creativity to create things like this, you obviously shouldn't. |
Boxed set? Interesting. Mine is a many paged softcover bought back when it was the new edition released (I also have the preceding edition which was much thinner and had many supplements that became incorporated into 4th's core rulebook).
I do remember the wording of those very differently, so I am hoping you are just paraphrasing and that they did not rewrite it (I remember some of the wording being very snarky and humorous). I also remember more examples. Though, yes, the point of that chapter is that power gaming is bad and shouldn't be indulged and those were supposed to be some examples of the extreme and ridiculous power gaming.
Yes, the champions rules are very crunchy - but there are some interesting ideas. Especially the section on Presence attacks (using force of personality to cause someone to to be unnerved, delayed, or flee). I had wanted to do something in D6 to allow players to use Perception skills in such a way (match Intimidation, or Persuasion, or some other appropriate skill against Opponents willpower with a "damage" chart for effects or bonuses gained such as opponent losing initiative, or being unable to act for first round, or backing down or being forced to flee...etc...). I regret that I never learned that system well enough to run it, and that I did not have more opportunity to play it.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:32 am Post subject: |
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I just got a thick softcover book, but I thought the original was a box set because it looks like multiple books are bound together into a single volume. There are multiple numbering series starting with multiple TOCs in my book. It looks like my book compiles three books: a Rulesbook, a Sourcebook, and a Campaign Book.
So what I meant was, it is a very well made single-volume book that is a reproduction of a box set, but honestly I don't know what format the original game came in. I had previously ordered the original Star Frontiers box set as a single-volume hardcover POD, and for that one I know the book compiles the multiple booklets and maps of the box set because I actually used to have that box set. The Star Frontiers POD book was an affordable way to bring back a lost part of my childhood, and it is a really nice reproduction. I thought Champions 4e may have originally been a box set too, but maybe I'm wrong.
Yes, that is just a paraphrasing of the powergamer example characters. But there weren't any more of them. That is all four examples. The Are You A Powergamer? section was not its own chapter. It is just a small section with a few paragraphs at the end of the character creation section of the Sorucebook. I can take a picture of it and send it to you if you want to see it again. I noticed there is a different Gamemaster section that gives advice for dealing with different kind of players in the game, giving the player types colorful titles.
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KageRyu
Commodore
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1391
Location: Lost in the cracks
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2023 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
Yes, that is just a paraphrasing of the powergamer example characters. But there weren't any more of them. That is all four examples. The Are You A Powergamer? section was not its own chapter. It is just a small section with a few paragraphs at the end of the character creation section of the Sorucebook. I can take a picture of it and send it to you if you want to see it again. I noticed there is a different Gamemaster section that gives advice for dealing with different kind of players in the game, giving the player types colorful titles. |
Nah, it's ok. I still have the book, but like all my RPG/Wargaming materials it is in storage. The Storage shed is actually over the border in New York (nothing affordable was available locally). When I have time to get out there I can see if it is easy to get to or not, and if it is I can pull it and see how long that section was. I know it wasn't long, but i was sure there was a part that ranted about the character with hundreds of dependent NPCs who was wheelchair bound and blind as a warning about overdoing disadvantages to get points for powers.
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DougRed4
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Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2259
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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I was first introduced to RPGs by a friend, who showed me this 'new' game called Dungeons and Dragons. It was 1979, and we were moving from a small private Christian junior high to a much larger private Christian high school (both of us going into the 9th grade).
I was enthralled and it seemed so amazing! The best game I'd ever played. It was similar to what I'd read (Tolkien), but completely open-ended. I could do what I wanted.
Back then AD&D was the current game, and these were the three books he had:
Alas, by the second game session (he had biked to my house), my mom came home and she didn't feel good about this game. [She was a bit ahead of the curve with the Satanic Panic]
So I left D&D for many years and moved on a couple years later to stuff that didn't have "spells" and "demons" and whatnot. Games like TOP SECRET (spies) and Villains & Vigilantes (superheroes).
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Classic! Thanks for sharing your history and those images. Those are of course the original covers of those books that first came out in '77 (MM), '78 (PH), and '79 (DMG). Those are the AD&D books that my DM had in '81 (when he started us on the '77 Basic Set). Out of those books, I probably only read some of the PH when our campaign converted to AD&D. I read all three of those when I got the new-cover printings ('83) that I shared in the OP.
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2259
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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It was very fun to read through everyone's history with D&D (and other games). I've played a ton of other games, too. Over 70 different ones (and that's counting "D&D" as just one, even though I've played four different editions, for instance).
Let me just add that 4th Edition was the version that was most made to be 'like an MMO' and the most 'superheroish'. I liked it, but I think 5th Edition is by far the best; many compare it to 2nd Edition in many ways (the one major edition I've never played).
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RyanDarkstar
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Joined: 04 Dec 2014
Posts: 351
Location: Chambersburg, PA, USA, Earth
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| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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My family finished a 6-year 5e campaign earlier this year. My stepson DM'ed his original world that borrowed elements from Lord of the Rings and The Witcher. In our penultimate session, a clutch wish spell made all of us dragons, allowing us to rescue the soul of my sister-in-law's first PC. It was amazing fun. We wrapped up the next session and have been playing one-shots and Drakkenheim sporadically.
While I like 5e, I've been looking at returning to my BECMI roots, as well as returning to Star Wars after a 2 year hiatus from the Pit. I've backed quite a few Kickstarters that seemed to be updates to BECMI, AD&D, and 5e.
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