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Kytross Line Captain


Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 806
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 8:30 am Post subject: Bith - Manual Dexterity |
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Ok, I've never GMed a Bith player character before. I was looking them over and I've got a question for you all regarding their manual dexterity trait.
Quote: | Manual Dexterity: Although the Bith have low overall Dexterity scores, they do gain +1D to the performance of fine motor skills - picking pockets, surgery, fine tool operation, etc.- but not to gross motor skills such as blaster and dodge. |
So this applies to certain skills under different attributes. Pickpocket is under Dex, surgery is under Tech. Fine tool operation is vague. What skills do y'all think it applies to?
I'm specifically looking at piloting and starship gunnery under Mechanical. I think it would definitely apply to gunnery, but I'm not sure about piloting. Is your hands on a pilot's yoke more of a gross motor skill or a fine motor skill?
I have no problem giving the bonus to tasks at a console that require manipulating dials and buttons. Sensors, Communications, and shields I would give the bonus to.
On the other hand, Computer Programming is less about motor skills and more about mental knowledge. Computer repair, however, is a fine motor skill and would get the bonus.
Moving over to Dexterity, I don't think any other skill would get the bonus, but I do think some specializations would. Thrown Weapon: Dart, I think would get it. Also, firing a weapon from a prone position from a great distance away, basically a sniper shot, I think that would get the bonus. There is zero gross motor skills going on there. Granted, that's a specific circumstance, but it has occurred many times in my games.
And yes, I know Bith are extremely near-sighted, almost as near-sighted as I am in real life. So they would need to wear glasses to make a sniper shot, or utilize a scope or even the Sighting Macroscope. Seriously, why are glasses not mentioned as a way to compensate for their near-sightedness? Hyperspace, no problem. Projected energy weapons, piece of cake. Concave and convex glass to increase vision, they use it in various microscopes and telescopes, but not in glasses? Maybe it's a cultural thing for Bith. Sheesh.
Anyway, I can't think of any skills the bonus would affect in Strength or Perception. Strength is all gross motor skills. Perception has no motor skills.
The only skill I can think of under Knowledge the fine motor skill bonus would have an impact on is Survival. Survival includes building shelters and weapons out of found objects. Personal pet peeve, I don't give Ewoks the skill Primitive Construction, I consider that a specialization under Survival. You may see the need to make it a separate skill under Technical, but it doesn't come up enough in my games in my opinion. Making an igloo in the arctic or a lean to in the forest, or a rabbit trap our of tree branches, none of these things have come up in my games. Heh, maybe it's me, maybe I should run different games.
I'd like to hear all your thoughts on the subject. Has it come up in your games. How did you apply the manual dexterity bonus?
Thanks! |
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FVBonura Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 24 Nov 2005 Posts: 210 Location: Central PA
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Wow, a really good question. I went back and read the first and second edition write up on the race to find some context.
As an aside: I suspect Bithian core stock were birds due to their respiration system. They are in my campaign but don't tell my players.
I would interpret fine motor skills as anything done with the hands or close to body and eyes. I would also add to that definition actions that require subtle precise movements on the scale or tolerances of a millimeter or smaller. The race is generally myopic and introverted mostly focused on manufacture, desk, and lab work. Skills requiring the manipulation of the arms or legs or tasks performed requiring seeing past 20 meters away would not qualify for the bonus. Any technical skill would certainly qualify. Even technical programming skills will require removal/installation of tiny components, diagnostic plugs, flipping dip switches, etc.
As for piloting and gunnery, there are close controls which a Bith would be skilled but there are also arm and leg movements. Those skills also require seeing out past 20 meters in spite of fire control and targeting computers so I would rule they would be terrible pilots/gunners for physiological and cultural reasons.
You are right, lensing could compensate for their nearsightedness. I get the sense these rules were more focused on game balance than feasibility. These abilities were added in second edition and may have been a reaction to first edition abuses.
Like you, I have never had to referee a Bith Player Character. I think the best explanation I would give to a player is: your Manual Dexterity ability is linked to your Vision ability and is only imparted to actions within 30 centimeters of your eyes/hands.
Recommended Reading:
"We Don't Do Weddings: The Band's Tale", Bith being Bith.
"Young Jedi Knights: Trouble on Cloud City", there is a chapter on Clak'dor VII. _________________ Star Wars Deckplans Alliance
Star Wars Prequel Commentary
Last edited by FVBonura on Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cunning_kindred Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 25 Mar 2007 Posts: 181 Location: Southampton, England
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | And yes, I know Bith are extremely near-sighted, almost as near-sighted as I am in real life. So they would need to wear glasses to make a sniper shot, or utilize a scope or even the Sighting Macroscope. Seriously, why are glasses not mentioned as a way to compensate for their near-sightedness? Hyperspace, no problem. Projected energy weapons, piece of cake. Concave and convex glass to increase vision, they use it in various microscopes and telescopes, but not in glasses? Maybe it's a cultural thing for Bith. Sheesh. |
I can't actually remember reading the racial description in full but it is worth noting here that lens and glasses cannot fix all forms of near-sightedness or even all forms of sight issues. A lens would by compensating for a lack of motor control over the natural lens in the eye. There are neurological conditions that prevent an individual from properly seeing at a distance due to an inability to process the information or to correctly place it in context. If the race simply lacks the neurological ability to process information about visual data beyond a certain distance (perhaps due to an enhanced neurological focus on information about near by objects - which could make a certain evolutionary sense in some environment) than no amount of mechanical correction will do anything more than confuse the creature or make it think something nearby is further away than it actually is.
Quote: | Manual Dexterity: Although the Bith have low overall Dexterity scores, they do gain +1D to the performance of fine motor skills - picking pockets, surgery, fine tool operation, etc.- but not to gross motor skills such as blaster and dodge. |
This seems incredibly circumstantial. I'm not sure whole skills could ever be completely guaranteed to get this bonus. In my game, I would assume the bonus applied if it was really obvious to everyone at the table it applied. If someone - including me - questioned it, I'd ask the player to quickly describe how being nimble fingered could help them with the test and if the answer was colourful, funny or simply took advantage of my description of the scene in an interesting way, I'd give it to them.
That said, the Bith are quite a good race in terms of stats, as I recall. They already have potentially great KNOW, MECH, PER and TECH and their "bad" DEX can still be what most characters would consider a good die code at 3D, so I think I would interpret this to mean where they can take advantage of a very fine degree of control over moving their fingers. Just pressing a button is not enough. This has to be a situation where the precise placement of their fingers can have a determination on success or failure.
Just my two cents. _________________ You can find the latest document here:
Star Wars Unleashed Edition |
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garhkal Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 14287 Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Bith - Manual Dexterity |
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Kytross wrote: | Ok, I've never GMed a Bith player character before. I was looking them over and I've got a question for you all regarding their manual dexterity trait.
Quote: | Manual Dexterity: Although the Bith have low overall Dexterity scores, they do gain +1D to the performance of fine motor skills - picking pockets, surgery, fine tool operation, etc.- but not to gross motor skills such as blaster and dodge. |
So this applies to certain skills under different attributes. Pickpocket is under Dex, surgery is under Tech. Fine tool operation is vague. What skills do y'all think it applies to? |
Mostly repairs, such as any of the ship/vehicle repairs.. I do not however, see it applying to computer programming..
Kytross wrote: |
I'm specifically looking at piloting and starship gunnery under Mechanical. I think it would definitely apply to gunnery, but I'm not sure about piloting. Is your hands on a pilot's yoke more of a gross motor skill or a fine motor skill? |
IMO No, it doesn't apply there. your entire hand is on the console/gunnery device, NOT manipulating fine things with your fingertips.
Kytross wrote: |
I have no problem giving the bonus to tasks at a console that require manipulating dials and buttons. Sensors, Communications, and shields I would give the bonus to. |
See above.
Kytross wrote: |
Moving over to Dexterity, I don't think any other skill would get the bonus, but I do think some specializations would. Thrown Weapon: Dart, I think would get it. Also, firing a weapon from a prone position from a great distance away, basically a sniper shot, I think that would get the bonus. There is zero gross motor skills going on there. Granted, that's a specific circumstance, but it has occurred many times in my games. |
How do you see darts g etting it.. And as for sniping, whether prone or not, is more about KNOWING when to shoot, compensating for wind, gravity etc.. NOTHING "fine manipulation' there.
Kytross wrote: |
And yes, I know Bith are extremely near-sighted, almost as near-sighted as I am in real life. So they would need to wear glasses to make a sniper shot, or utilize a scope or even the Sighting Macroscope. Seriously, why are glasses not mentioned as a way to compensate for their near-sightedness? |
Maybe its something that CAN'T be compensated for.??
Kytross wrote: |
The only skill I can think of under Knowledge the fine motor skill bonus would have an impact on is Survival. Survival includes building shelters and weapons out of found objects. Personal pet peeve, I don't give Ewoks the skill Primitive Construction, I consider that a specialization under Survival. You may see the need to make it a separate skill under Technical, but it doesn't come up enough in my games in my opinion. Making an igloo in the arctic or a lean to in the forest, or a rabbit trap our of tree branches, none of these things have come up in my games. Heh, maybe it's me, maybe I should run different games.
I'd like to hear all your thoughts on the subject. Has it come up in your games. How did you apply the manual dexterity bonus?
Thanks! |
IT might help with tying knots, or building tools, but NOT setting up tents... SO i don't see it applying to survival. _________________ Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
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pakman Commander


Joined: 20 Jul 2021 Posts: 448
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Fascinating topic.
I handle things like this (and species/character background options) a bit more subjective and narrative based in play.
Basically, so many times a game session, a player can ask "does this count for this situation" and the GM would give a yes or no.
no long list, no page or tables etc.
if the answer is no, however, the GM would say 'tell me about how you might approach it differently..." to inspire player creativity.
This way - you don't need an exhaustive list of "counts on repairing the focusing ring on the blaster, but no on the damaged stock on the e-web" or whatever.
This has worked out really well in our game - as players will often think of new ways to approach problems etc.
Best of luck in what ever you decide. _________________ SW Fan, Gamer, Comic, Corporate nerd.
Working on massive House Rules document - pretty much a new book. Will post soon.... |
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