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Cannon size.
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Rasputiza
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject: Cannon size. Reply with quote

In the 2ed. & rev. rules i can see that a double turbolaser has a 4D code, while a double laser cannon has 5D (p. 181).
This makes me wonder: weren't turbolaseres more powerful than laser cannons?
Then i immagined that size (of the ship) was involved, like the turbolasers being of a greater scale than the laser cannons. The problem is i had some difficulties in finding this bit of info in the manual...
...would you mind to give me any direction?
Thanks
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masque
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that the laser cannon is starfighter scale, and the turbolasers are capital. Just use the scale table to convert the difference.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually they are both the same scale, both the Rendili Corvette and the Ghtroc 720 are Starfighter scale. In this case, these Double Laser Cannons are indeed more powerful than those Double Turbolasers.

However, that's not to say that Laser Cannons are more powerful than Turbolasers. Generally it's the other way around. But you must understand that there are many, many types of Turbolasers and Laser Cannons, and some will be more powerful than others. Damage ratings may vary from 2D to 9D or something like that. So there's no official stats for what the damage of a Turbolaser or Laser Cannon is. Each model has a different rating.

In most cases, Laser Cannons are Starfighter scale, while most Turbolasers are Capital scale. Usually ships have some Starfighter-scale Laser Cannons to deal with Starfighters and Capital-scale Turbolasers to deal with battleships. It's only that there are exceptions, such as the Rendili Light Corvette.
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Akari
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a related note (thread hijacker), what size diameter would you put the barrels of a space transport mounted turbolaser turret. Or would you make them tubes at all? There was a debate if one could slip a grenade into a barrel of a parked starship or if the actual beam was created in front of the closed weapon.

I personally believe Laser cannons should have barrels, because of the way blasters and lasers (which are really just high tech blasters) work in Star Wars. the charged blastergas has to gain its (moderate) speed somewhere. Why make the weapons long if it didn't have to?
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Boomer
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well let's take a look at the blaster barrels we see in the movies?

Are they open? Yes, they all are. Are they wide enough to put things in? The only barrels I saw wide enough to stick a grenade in was that giant, howitzer style turbolaser.
The barrel on Han's DL-44 was too thin to put my finger in. The barrels on most blasters tend to be awfully small.
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jmanski
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being based on real-life weapons with extra stuff attached, most star wars blasters do have barrels that are too thin. Han's blaster would be either 9mm or .45" diameter, depending on which model of broomhandle pistol they used (WWII German pistol).

I would say base the barrel sizes on real-life counterparts. Blasters will be up to 1/2", cannons would be the size of artillery shells (100mm or roughly 4"), turbolasers should fall into the size range of naval cannons (9" for smaller cannons, 20" or larger for the bigger guns).

I say yeah, stick a grenade in the thing and run!
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Pel
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I quite agree. For starfighter laser cannon, I doubt a traditional grenade would fit. One could, however, make great use of some malleable explosive compound and stuff it inside whatever size barrel desired. I'd estimate starfighter barrel diameter at 20 - 40 mm.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's this fixation with stuffing grenades down a weapon's barrel? Won't it destroy the weapon just as much to simply throw a grenade at it?
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Boomer
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea is that instead of relying on accuracy of the throw and destroying the weapon alone, but to have the grenade inside of the craft and destroy the weapon and everything around it for sure.
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Pel
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing like a bit of well-planned sabotage to ruin the opposition's day.

Well-placed explosives work well on hyperdrives too, if you're sneaky like that. Wink
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Rasputiza
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
Actually they are both the same scale, both the Rendili Corvette and the Ghtroc 720 are Starfighter scale. In this case, these Double Laser Cannons are indeed more powerful than those Double Turbolasers.

However, that's not to say that Laser Cannons are more powerful than Turbolasers. Generally it's the other way around. But you must understand that there are many, many types of Turbolasers and Laser Cannons, and some will be more powerful than others. Damage ratings may vary from 2D to 9D or something like that. So there's no official stats for what the damage of a Turbolaser or Laser Cannon is. Each model has a different rating.

In most cases, Laser Cannons are Starfighter scale, while most Turbolasers are Capital scale. Usually ships have some Starfighter-scale Laser Cannons to deal with Starfighters and Capital-scale Turbolasers to deal with battleships. It's only that there are exceptions, such as the Rendili Light Corvette.


While i usually find Gry comments more than illuminating, i find this one a bit confusing, actually.
You say that Turbolasers can be less powerful than Laser Cannons. Ok, fine, but if so: wich is the difference between them? I supposed that Turbolasers were either more powerful due bigger dimensions or different energy projection technology (hence the "turbo" attached to the laser word). Besides, in the adventure from the 2nd ed. rev. manual, those turbolasers come from a Customs corvette that (even if modified) is much bigger than a Gthroc freighter, and should therefore be able to power much bigger guns than a tramp freighter (even if modified).
So i'm still in confusion about this classification regarding lasers and turbolasers.... Smile
Any clarification will be warmly welcomed! Very Happy
Ras
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Jamfke
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may be their relativity in size. A small turbolaser could be vastly more powerful than a standard laser of the same size.

The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology also says that laser cannons have varying damage scales if they are standard or military grade weapons. So a stock small laser cannon on a normal ship might be weaker than that is a black market variant of the same weapon.

And...WEG designers may not have gotten together on a weapons damage standard when designing the various ships for the game. Very Happy So you'd have different damage codes that way too!
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Akari
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
What's this fixation with stuffing grenades down a weapon's barrel? Won't it destroy the weapon just as much to simply throw a grenade at it?


Unfortunately not. Our GM ruled (quite correctly) that if I throw a grenade *at* it, its protected by the ships (not unsignificant) hull code and will be subject to dice caps of 2 (human scale vs. starfighter scale).

A grenade *inside* the barrel would mess things up from the inside, basically the mechanism that is used to create the beam in the first place. So he judged to still roll the ships hull code against it, but dice caps did not apply in this special case. I personally would have done it the other way around, basically dice caps: yes, but no resistance roll to counter it, or 1d at most. Result would have been the same in either case: a throughly wrecked weapon, that wouldnt even have a scratch if the grenade exploded outside of it.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I was thinking more about character-scale weapons. Wouldn't a grenade wreck it whether it's stuck in the barrel or neatly laid by its side?
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Pel
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Character-scale grenade against other character-scale weapons? Sure, it would blow a nice chunk out of them. Character-scale grenade versus larger weapons? I'd say placement is everything.

If the grenade (or other explosive device) is placed inside the barrel, or perhaps somewhere in the mechanism (internal workings, along an obvious seam, etc.) then the larger weapon should have little or no resistance, similar to what Akari indicated.

If your <explosive of choice> is merely lying next to a larger weapon, or sitting on the hull near a gun port, then I'd say that all applicable modifiers are in full effect (die caps, extra scale dice, etc.). It might scorch the paint, but that's probably about it on a starfighter, unless you want to place it inside something as mentioned previously.
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