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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: |
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true, but what can you do when your full dodge. if you full dodge and they full attack, they will win eventually....
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| OtterJethro wrote: | | Quote: | | Some people (myself included) will use a Full Dodge even if they win initiative if they believe the situation warrants it. |
Excatly the situation I would presume it is way overpowered. No one is using a Full Dodge when it is one bad guy. We use it when we are extremely outnumbered. Thats when I think it is indeed ridiculous. To say someone can dodge three shots for three directions in that amount of time. We have that problem all the time. Anytime someone does a full dodge, nobody really can hit them so the advantage seems to favor the undermatched side.... |
Well, the advantage to the dodging character can be different for each attacker. Not every attacker is going to be the same distance away using the same weapon, therefore, weapon ranges, and their difficulty bonus, will vary, as will their skills. Those within the closer firing ranges won't have much of a penalty to their shot's chances of hitting at all.
More than often enough, even with a Full Dodge, I'd get hit by someone.
Add to it the fact that you can take no other actions, it means that you're stuck out in the fire for a longer period. It really is an action that you have to weigh the pros and cons of before using it, imo. |
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Tupteq
Commander
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 285
Location: Rzeszów, Poland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| OtterJethro wrote: | | Excatly the situation I would presume it is way overpowered. No one is using a Full Dodge when it is one bad guy. We use it when we are extremely outnumbered. Thats when I think it is indeed ridiculous. To say someone can dodge three shots for three directions in that amount of time. We have that problem all the time. Anytime someone does a full dodge, nobody really can hit them so the advantage seems to favor the undermatched side.... |
My players often use full dodge and (probably even more often) full parry. In addition to dodge value decreasing (-3 to value after each dodged shot) we are using penalties for more than one arc (they depend on circumstances, but it's around -1D for each additional arc). And now even Ki-Adi-Mundi can be killed by 7 Clone Troopers  |
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K21DUBIE
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I never really gave the fire arc much thought, but that makes sense I like that. |
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| K21DUBIE wrote: | | I never really gave the fire arc much thought, but that makes sense I like that. |
I don't think the arc really makes that much sense... the target is moving erratically making it difficult to hit from any angle... unless they are moving in a single plane, but that would be silly. |
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | K21DUBIE wrote: | | I never really gave the fire arc much thought, but that makes sense I like that. |
I don't think the arc really makes that much sense... the target is moving erratically making it difficult to hit from any angle... unless they are moving in a single plane, but that would be silly. |
I think it was more of a Light Saber Combat total defence type thing.
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OtterJethro
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| We modified it to where you declare your primary focus for dodgeing, secondary and then others. We gave a diff bonus to the dodger for secondary and than higher even for others. Anyone in the 180 degree arc behind you can not be a primary or secondary. I dont remember the numbers off the top of my head, maybe +3 and +6-9. That makes a huge difference. Not even the best dodger should be able to easily dodge 4 trained stormtroopers. Our problem is not that someone uses it every round and therefore is too powerful. Someone in the battle sees his buddies fall by the way side and desides to full dodge his way out of the room and is near impossible to hit. He tends to be 4 rounds from safety and is never getting close to being hit. My friend constantly would make poor choices but because he had a significantly higher dodge than everyone was able to do that. He knew that the rest of the group had low dodges so if they got hit he would just get out or something. |
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Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| vong wrote: | | Ankhanu wrote: | | K21DUBIE wrote: | | I never really gave the fire arc much thought, but that makes sense I like that. |
I don't think the arc really makes that much sense... the target is moving erratically making it difficult to hit from any angle... unless they are moving in a single plane, but that would be silly. |
I think it was more of a Light Saber Combat total defence type thing. |
Ah, ok, yeah, that makes perfect sense then  Ignore that other cooment. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14357
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | The only part i don't like about full dodging, is that imo if you are going to do it, you should declare it right off the get go, not wait to lose initiave then do so.. |
I don't really get that. You chose every other action after rolling initiative, and they're (at least in part) based on the initiative result, why should this action be any different? They're all tactical choices with their situational advantages and disadvantages, I don't see Full Dodge being any different.
Some people (myself included) will use a Full Dodge even if they win initiative if they believe the situation warrants it. |
I thought the 'declaring how many actions' went before actually rolling for initiave...
| Quote: | | Add to it the fact that you can take no other actions, it means that you're stuck out in the fire for a longer period. It really is an action that you have to weigh the pros and cons of before using it, imo. |
And it also sucks when you have 2 different attack types coming at you.. EG brawl/melee as well as a ranged shot.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | And it also sucks when you have 2 different attack types coming at you.. EG brawl/melee as well as a ranged shot. |
You have players who shoot into a melee? 
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | And it also sucks when you have 2 different attack types coming at you.. EG brawl/melee as well as a ranged shot. |
You have players who shoot into a melee? |
Why not? Could be fun... |
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awfulalex
Commander
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 303
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Matthias777 wrote: | | I figure it could still apply. I play FPS computer games like BF2 and such. If a guy is juking about trying to evade fire, if I lay my crosshairs on him (or rather, his area of movement) for a few seconds and try to anticipate his next movement, I have a lot better chance of hitting him than if I just snapped off a shot. Granted that's a computer game, but I think the theory is still sound. |
I can tell you one thing from hunting experience, you have to lead your target and it is almost impossible to lead (especially using a scoop) a randomly jerky target.
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awfulalex
Commander
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 303
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| Gry Sarth wrote: | | I like your take on range modifiers, Tupteq. I always had a problem with the fact that shooting at a dodging target (not full dodging) at point-blank range would have the same difficulty as in long range. |
Hi I hunt and I do martial arts (Unarmed vs Armed) and I can tell you something from experience.
1. Shooting at a dodging, weaving target is extremely hard.
2. Opponents within 3m of you are EXTREMELY hard to hit if they are good at dodging
3. Opponents at longer ranges are easier to hit as their movements have to be much more random and over larger areas to affect your aim.
So in my opinion it should be extremely difficult shooting someone in melee range if they are dodging, but relatively easier when they are further away. Rather use a mele weapon or fists on the guy close to you.
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Tupteq
Commander
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 285
Location: Rzeszów, Poland
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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From my experience (AirSoft Gun) - dodging or not, it's easier to hit a closer target (I'm talking about human target, not an animal or can). Except situation when target is too close because he is behind barrel muzzle.
In my games melee vs. blaster situations are quite rare, but I think there should be some high negative modifier to shoot at target that is too close and is attacking using hands or melee weapon. Or maybe melee combat should be used instead of blaster skill. |
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Matthias777
Commodore
Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 1835
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| awfulalex wrote: | | I can tell you one thing from hunting experience, you have to lead your target and it is almost impossible to lead (especially using a scoop) a randomly jerky target. |
Yeah that's true, I didn't think about that since I never shoot at moving targets. When hunting I only take shots when they're standing still or moving very slowly (usually I get them to stop in my sights by making a "meh" noise) in order to ensure a clean kill.
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