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The Force - D6 Space Metaphysics rules
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Mogul76
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: The Force - D6 Space Metaphysics rules Reply with quote

Is anyone of you using the Metaphysics rules presented in D6 Space 2.0 to handle the Force in your games?

If yes, which modifications have you made to the rules to make them more Star Wars-like? Have you converted any Force powers of the Star Wars Roleplaying Game 2nd Edition Revised & Expanded? Are you satisfied how these rules work out?

Now that D6 is “going free”, I feel there’s is a tremendous chance to attract new players - who are not satisfied how WOTC handles the Star Wars universe in RPG terms - to Star Wars D6... Supporting WEG in the process is a nice bonus... I also believe that the Metaphaysics rules in D6 Space could be a major improvement in dealing with the Force (... because they're more flexible...) but also acknowledge that modifications are required... I recently started converting D6 Space to Star Wars myself and have almost finished writing the chapter dealing with lightsaber combat (including the various forms)... But balancing things out is a difficult thing to do... I’d be interested to know what you guys have done with D6 Space in your Star Wars campaigns...
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Matthias777
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the Metaphysics D6 Space rules? I've not ever had the chance to read them.
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Mogul76
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ll summarise them for you:
- Metaphysics (i.e. the Force) is an attribute composed of three skills: channel, sense and alternate (which - *cough* - can easily be translated into control, sense and alter).
- A character does not “buy” powers any longer. There is a table that allows him to create his own techniques, called manipulations if I remember correctly. The table is needed to determine the difficulty modifiers, which will vary depending on what you’re trying to achieve (type of bonus to attribute/skill rolls, damage die code, distance, the number of people that are affected by the manipulation, duration, weight of the target object, etc.).
- Powers are no longer kept up. The character has to state how long the effect will be. This affects the difficulty modifier.
- 1 roll per “power”. Hence, there aren’t any channel + sense + alternate powers.

That’s about it. It’s a very flexible system. Less bookkeeping. Fewer rolls. I like the fact that powers must not be purchased. In my opinion, using the Force is (almost) as natural to a Jedi as playing soccer is to us normal human beings - you don't learn the power "kick the ball"; you just improve your skills in order to enhance your precision, dribble better and/or hit the ball harder.
If I had to convert the system (... and in fact, I may actually do that...), I’d add a few techniques that must be learned, though – for example, Force lightning.
I’d probably also add prerequisites to some powerful, rare powers – for instance, Battle Meditation (requiring a high Force attribute value).
So yes, some modifications are necessary in my opinion but WEG made sure not to introduce a completely unfamiliar system. Therefore, I’m quite surprised that this subject hasn’t yet been addressed by a larger number of Star Wars D6 fans...

Mind you, I haven’t play tested these rules yet. That’s why I’ve written this thread...
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the cost to learn/increase the channel/sense/alternate the same as it was for control/sense/alter? Is it less?
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Mogul76
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is the cost to learn/increase the channel/sense/alternate the same as it was for control/sense/alter? Is it less?


It's double the CP price of improving a regular skill. Multiply the cost again by two if no teacher is available.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, I kind of like the structure of the Force Powers... the Force is a very limited metaphysical system; it has the potential to expand past its limits, but to do so you kind of need beings as powerful as, say, the Emperor to really do it.

How the Force manifests in Star Wars is in set teachings, for the most part, which manifest in specific ways. This system, as is, is a little to open to reflect the normal use of the Force, but with some tweaking to limit it a little, it can work nicely.... and give a frame work for how those very few super powerful users can break the mold that almost all other users are confined with.
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Expendable Hero
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well there are multiple force schools like the Sith and the witches you could always just count this as another.
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Mogul76
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How the Force manifests in Star Wars is in set teachings, for the most part, which manifest in specific ways. This system, as is, is a little to open to reflect the normal use of the Force, but with some tweaking to limit it a little, it can work nicely.... and give a frame work for how those very few super powerful users can break the mold that almost all other users are confined with.


Actually, the system scales nicely. But I agree with you. It needs some tweaking and a small number of techniques would only be available if they're taught...
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BreederofPuppets
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking about this a little while ago, and attempted to translate the Saga powers in d6 Space metaphysics. Here is what I got :

(sorry about the format; I don't know how to make it look pretty...or how to hide it/condensed/etc it)

Battle Strike
Enhancing melee damage

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 16
Effect: +2D lift skill (+10)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Self (+0)
Duration: 6 rounds (30 seconds) (+4)

This is the simple version of a power that enhances the power behind a weapon blows (including bare hand strikes, if so desired). It affects only the psyker, and only enhances the physical damage dealt (+2D if lift skill for causing damage only).

Battle Strike, Master
Greatly enhancing melee damage and attack skill

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 26
Effect: +2D lift skill (+10), +2D melee or brawling (+10)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Self (+0)
Duration: 6 rounds (30 seconds) (+4)

This is the enhanced version of a Battle Strike. The psyker not only gains increase power behind her weapon blows (including bare hand strikes, if so desired), their melee/brawling skill in also increased. It affects only the psyker, enhances the physical damage dealt (+2D if lift skill for causing damage only), and increases the appropriate combat skill (+2D).

Dark Rage
Tapping the power to produce a blood thirsty rage to increase attack and damage

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 10
Effect: +12 close combat (Brawling, melee, lift; R12) (+24)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Self (+0)
Duration: 10 rounds (50 seconds) (+8)
Special: Hindrance (+12 difficulty to dodge, block/parry, firearms, and missile weapons;R12) (-24)

Considered the dark version of Battle Strike, Dark Rage sends the psyker into a mind numbing rage, where he attacks his target with unchecked fury. The psyker’s strength swells (+12 to brawling, melee, and lift rolls, R12 advantage), but she loses control and self preservation (+12 to the difficulty of dodge, parry, firearms and missile weapons skills, R12 disadvantage), and cannot use any skill that requires patience, concentration, or understanding for the duration of the effect.

Farseeing, Distant
Extending senses to another location

Skill: Sense
Difficultly: 44
Effect: +4D search (+8); Imperceptible (+16)
Target Size: Group, room (+5)
Range: Self (for effect) (+0); Long (to target) (+7)
Duration: 10 rounds (50 seconds) (+8)

By casting her mind out, the pysker can examine one location at a distance. Use the effect’s search skill of 4D to determine how much information the character gets each round.

Farseeing, Past
Extending senses into the past

Skill: Sense
Difficultly: 13
Effect: +4D search (+8)
Target Size: Group, room (+5)
Range: Self (for effect) (+0)
Duration: 10 minutes (+8)
Special: See below (varies)


By casting her mind out, the pysker can examine one what happened at his current location in the past. The difficulties for how far back in time the psysker can see are listed below (add the timeline difficulty to the powers base difficulty). This power requires the psyker to enter a meditative state for five minutes, and must maintain her concentration during the duration of the power; interruptions cause the information to become hazy and inaccurate. Use the effect’s search skill of 4D to determine how much information the character gets each round.

+18 One Hour
+25 One Day
+29 One Week
+32 One Month
+38 One Year
(the above difficulties are loosely based off what I got from d6 Fantasy magic)

Farseeing, Future
Extending senses into the future

Skill: Sense
Difficultly: 13
Effect: +4D search (+8)
Target Size: Group, room (+5)
Range: Self (for effect) (+0)
Duration: 10 minutes (+8)
Special: See below (varies)

By casting her mind out, the pysker can examine one what happened at his current location in the future. The difficulties for how far forward in time the psysker can see are listed below (add the timeline difficulty to the powers base difficulty). This power requires the psyker to enter a meditative state for five minutes, and must maintain her concentration during the duration of the power; interruptions cause the information to become hazy and inaccurate. Use the effect’s search skill of 4D to determine how much information the character gets each round.

As the future is constantly changing, this power only shows the most likely outcome (subject to GM’s digression).

+18 One Hour
+25 One Day
+29 One Week
+32 One Month
+38 One Year
(the above difficulties are loosely based off what I got from d6 Fantasy magic)

Force Disarm
Yanking Weapons out of hands

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 13
Effect: 6D melee disarm (+6)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Close (100 meters) (+5)
Duration: 2 rounds (10 seconds) (+0)

This power allows the psyker to yank weapons out of opponent’s hands from up to 100 meters away. To use this power, the psyker rolls 6D, opposed by the target’s strength. If the psyker wins, the weapon flies out of the user’s hand, landing on the ground half way between the pysker and the target. If the Pysker wins by +10, the weapon flies into the psyker’s hand.

Force Grip
Choking at a distance

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 27
Effect: 6D choking roll (+12)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Close (+5)
Duration: 10 rounds (50 seconds) (+8)

This power allows the pysker to create a telekinetic force around the target’s neck, choking her. This attack is treated similar to the choke option of brawling, save that there is no opposed brawling roll. Instead, the psyker rolls her channel skill against the power’s difficultly, and if successful, the target must resist against the 6D this power grants (resistance rolls is strength, per the standard rules. Armor doesn’t help resist the damage.

Force Lighting
Basic Ranged Energy Damage

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 17
Effect: 5D damage (+10)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Close (3-100m) (+5)
Duration: 2 rounds (+0)

A deceptively simple damage power that deals energy damage, this is the staple power for the bad guys. Once activated, the psyker gains the ability to send arcs of lighting at anyone target she can see within 100 meters for the next two rounds. Armor does not protect against this power, though energy absorbing powers do.


Force Blast
Area effect damaging power that tosses opponents away

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 25
Effect: 4D damage (+8)
Target Size: Group, Room (+5)
Range: Point Blank (< 3m) (+0)
Duration: 1 round (+0)
Special: 6D lift (+12)

A useful ability when the psyker is surrounded, this power slams all opponents within 3 meters of the pysker with a telekinetic blast, knocking them away and creating some breathing room. When manifested, the initial effect strikes all opponents within 3 meters of the psyker (4D damage, armor applies), as well as throwing all targets back (use the 6D strength provided by the power, resisted by the target’s strength). The secondary effect occurs even if the target doesn’t take any damage from the initial effect.

Force Slam
Striking one or more foes with a telekinetic bolt

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 23
Effect: 4D damage (+8)
Target Size: Group, Room (+5)
Range: Close (+2)
Duration: 2 round (+0)
Special: 4D lift (+8)

Similar to bolt, this power slams several opponents, both damaging them and sending them flying away from the psyker. The targets of the power must be close to each other (no more than a meter apart). Those struck by the power must resist 4D damage (armor applies) as well as resist being flung directly away from the psyker as if tossed 4D strength (resisted by strength or lift).

Stun
Basic Ranged Physical (stun) Damage

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 15
Effect: 4D damage (+8)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Close (3-100m) (+5)
Duration: 2 rounds (+0)

This is the kinder, gentler version of bolt, and only deals stun damage to the target. Once activated, the psyker gains the ability to send a telepathic bolt at anyone target she can see within 100 meters for the next two rounds (4D damage, resisted by willpower or Perception). The only way to use it the round it effect is summoned is to take a multi-action penalty. Standard armor doesn’t help resist the damage, but mental shields do.

Force Thrust
Pushing opponents away

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 19
Effect: 6D lift (+12)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Close (3-100m) (+5)
Duration: 2 rounds (+0)

Another non-damaging power, this power flings a single opponent away from the psyker. Use the 6D lift skill provided by the power, resisted by the target’s strength or lift skill, to determine how far the target is thrown.

Mind Trick
Manipulating the simple minded

Skill: Transform
Difficultly: 27
Effect: 6D persuasion (+12)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Close (3-100m) (+5)
Duration: 10 rounds (+8)

This is the basic version of manipulating the target. The psyker rolls the 6D provided by the power, which is resisted by the target’s perception or willpower. The usual time constraints of using the persuasion skill do not apply. When the duration expires, the target is aware he was manipulated (the sneakier version, where the target isn’t aware he was under the effects of a power, increases the difficultly by +24).

Telekinesis
Moving light objects

Skill Used: Transform
Difficulty: 20
Effect: Move target of <1 kg (+1)
Target Size: Small Item (+1)
Range: Close (to target) (+5); Close (range of movement) (+5)
Duration: 10 rounds (+8)

The psyker reaches out with her mind and grasps a small object within 100 meters of her. She can bring it to her. (To also use the object at a distance, she would need to give herself the appropriate skill, as a separate manipulation attempt). This power only affects unpowered and unattended objects; for uses that may require opposed rolls, this power must include the addition of skill dice. The difficulty totals for moving larger objects are listed below:

22 single person
23 few people, personal vehicle (such as a car or star fighter)
25 group, small mass transport,
30 crowd, large mass transport, small building sized object
45 horde, huge mass transport, large building sized object

Negate Energy
Absorbing energy damage to aid healing

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 26
Effect: 4D protection (+8), 4D medicine (+8)
Target Size Person (+2)
Range: Self (+0)
Duration: 10 rounds (+8)

A dangerous power to use- failure is likely to cause damage- this power nevertheless provides a tangible benefit to those in modern combat. Psyker uses this power and manifests a protective, energy absorbing field around herself. For the remainder of the duration, any successful energy attack is resisted by the power’s 4D. Should the power’s roll exceed the damage roll, the psyker is immediately receives the benefit of a healing roll, using the negated damage total as the medicine roll.

Surge*
Near instantaneous movement

Skill: Channel
Difficultly: 13
Effect: Move self up to 100m (+6)
Target Size: Person (+2)
Range: Self (+0), Close (to target) (+5)
Duration: 2 rounds (+0)

With Surge, the pysker moves up to 100m as a move action for the next two rounds.
*this power is based off the translocation power. Instead of using the base difficulty of 12 for the effect, I used half of it (6) to represent the focused target.
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wolfe
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhanu wrote:
I dunno, I kind of like the structure of the Force Powers... the Force is a very limited metaphysical system; it has the potential to expand past its limits, but to do so you kind of need beings as powerful as, say, the Emperor to really do it.

How the Force manifests in Star Wars is in set teachings, for the most part, which manifest in specific ways. This system, as is, is a little to open to reflect the normal use of the Force, but with some tweaking to limit it a little, it can work nicely.... and give a frame work for how those very few super powerful users can break the mold that almost all other users are confined with.


Totally disagree.
There is more then just "the force" you know and love, the Dathorian Witch magic and Ta-ree magic for starters.

They may have some basis in the force but the force is not "specific" as you insist it is.
Ta-Ree can be learned by pretty much anyone, but it can only be used in a certain region of space and some of it's powers are quite similar to force abilities but the big difference is IF you earn dark side points for using it or not.

So for D6 Star Wars, D6 space metaphysics can be quite adequate to be used.
I know of one group that uses it for their Legacy era game, they first used in in an Old Republic era set several millenniums (how many not sure but they also had regular light sabres and some on power cords) and loved it.

Using the metaphysics sytem you can taylor the Force abilities to just how you want it and most likely end up far more accurate than WOTC with all the latest ones.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As always It is up to you to decide what to implement etc, but I feel this is more useful for a jedi without a master or much formal training, but the double cost for the lack of a teacher may cripple that, so it seems that having a master and 'buying' powers is how I'll continue to run my games haha
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: The Force - D6 Space Metaphysics rules Reply with quote

Mogul76 wrote:
Is anyone of you using the Metaphysics rules presented in D6 Space 2.0 to handle the Force in your games?

I have not run a game using the new d6 yet- current circumstances and location prevent me from doing so), but I am looking extensively into the game.

Mogul76 wrote:
If yes, which modifications have you made to the rules to make them more Star Wars-like? Have you converted any Force powers of the Star Wars Roleplaying Game 2nd Edition Revised & Expanded? Are you satisfied how these rules work out?

Listed above, I worked out a few of the Saga powers into d6 Space format, but haven't tried them out. From what I can see by my limited exposure, the metaphysics rules are somewhere between the old d6 Force rules and Sage; you start off on the weak side, but once you hit a certain point, you catch up with a mundane character, and then pass him. Once a character can hit the 25-30 difficulty, he'll be close to unstoppable.

Not as bad (one sided? Powerful?) as the old d6, but still incredibly potent.

Mogul76 wrote:
Now that D6 is “going free”, I feel there’s is a tremendous chance to attract new players - who are not satisfied how WOTC handles the Star Wars universe in RPG terms - to Star Wars D6... Supporting WEG in the process is a nice bonus... I also believe that the Metaphysics rules in D6 Space could be a major improvement in dealing with the Force (... because they're more flexible...) but also acknowledge that modifications are required... I recently started converting D6 Space to Star Wars myself and have almost finished writing the chapter dealing with lightsaber combat (including the various forms)... But balancing things out is a difficult thing to do... I’d be interested to know what you guys have done with D6 Space in your Star Wars campaigns...

One...aspect of metaphysics vs the old d6 Force is the flexibility. The metaphysics lets you do so much more than a handful of powers. Any power you need, you can attempt. Because of the loose design, a lot of of the powers can fall under one "skill" or the other (seeing the weaknesses in the opponents defenses can add to you melee with the Sense skill, or you could accelerate your body, giving you more time to aim with the channel skill, or you can access the memories of long dead warriors, adding their skills to yours, with the Transform skill).

On how to make it feel more Star Wars like...I'm not sure. In the movies, the characters never had a set of powers they used. If it was appropreate for them to have it, they had it. And you never saw most of their powers, and only guessed at them having it. Most Lightsaber duels lacked almost all powers, save jumping around and some minor TK special effects. In the EU...well, it suffered a lot from the heroes developing new powers whenever they needed them, and extended use of what I see as TK.

But, that's all I got for now. Have you had a chance to use the new rules? How about your changes? Have you got a chance to use them?
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Darklighter79
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: The Force - D6 Space Metaphysics rules Reply with quote

BreederofPuppets wrote:
But, that's all I got for now. Have you had a chance to use the new rules? How about your changes? Have you got a chance to use them?


I see there's a potential. Very flexible system and combined/updated with d6 Fantasy/Adventure (psionics) it offers ready-to-use exotic Force traditions.
But for the Jedi I am not sure about one thing, which is "duration", especially for Sense and Alter powers. In the movies, telekinesis, for example, is one of those powers that has to be kept up in order to effect take place over the time. But with these rules one could boost up the difficulty so the power would continue to take effect on its own, without the necessity of constant concentration.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are aspects of Metaphysics worth porting over - a Force Attribute is definitely one - but I'm mostly happy with the system we've got. A lot of the Metaphysics powers end up feeling too much like D&D magic spells.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, some work needs to done, including differentiate it from spells (d6 Fantasy), power consolidation - not to have many types of the same core power with slightly different effect, ect.
Enhance attribute/ enhance skill type of powers are superior in rule design to SW rules though (enhance attribute and concentration). And also the fact that "your focus determines your reality" and "your senses aren't that attuned, young apprentice" situations apply here. In game terms one is not bound by Force Power limits presented in description, like Life Detection range of up to 10 meters, but as Jedi strength in the Force grows, the more powerful feats he can do through the Force.
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