Do I give this player a DSP?

[vong]

hmmm, I would say that he would get a DSP - BUT only if I warned him Iin game BEFORE he did it that he would warrant one. I dont hand out DSP's without warning, so if i miss a warning in a game, the player gets off the hook.
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[Gry Sarth]

Even though he's not FS, I'd certainly give him a DSP. His actions were intentionally cruel, with malice and forethought. He could have executed the incapacitated ISB agent right there, but he took the trouble of reviving him, hanging, harrasing and THEN murdering him in cold blood. That's evil, no matter what the guy did.

DSP have no game mechanics effect on a NFS character, so what does it matter if he gets one or not? In my view the number of DSP a character has is pretty much a measurement of his "alignment" (if you'll excuse a D&D term). Such a ruthless character MUST have a couple of DSP on his sheet, it reflects his personality, and it's much better if he can look at those points in his sheet and remember "Oh, this one is from when I executed that ISB agent, this one is for when I detonated Tarkin's cat... yeah, I'm a mean MF."
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[Savaad]

So basically, it sounds like some are saying that people can just go around and do evil stuff and be cool. I believe it says in the game book that murder is a way for NFS to get DSPs. Now, if they have to spend a force point to get the DSP then most evil people would never get DSPs. In a nutshell, it doesn't really matter if he gets it except to limit bad actions from happening. The PC feels justified on his behalf that he shouldn't get the DSP, but he said he would do the action either way. So it seems like its about 50/50 thus far.
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[Scazar]

First I need to clarify, I have been lurking on these forums for about a year or so now, this just prompted me to make an account and actually post

As the said PC in the mentioned situation I feel the need to clarify a bit of the situation. The ISB agent was undercover in the Friends of Piran resistance base as one of the members of said rebel cell. He sold them out getting most of them killed. Then when we were escaping he severely wounded one of our team members, and mortally wounded another.

The statements that were made once I woke the guy back up were "guess what, both of those people you damn near killed, they are still alive, so you failed" then I chucked the guy off the catwalk. The jedi of the party was upstairs taking care of the mortally wounded character, so luckily he was at no risk of getting the DSP. So far as the character was concerned he considered himself to be serving justice as judge, jury, and executioner.

Now I am not really concerned about the DSP, were I personally GMing the game there is about a 50/50 likelihood that I would issue a DSP for it as well.

My only concern lies within the morality of the starwars universe as a whole. Following this escapade our group will be going to a severely damaged star destroyer disguised as maintenance workers, we will plant bombs on it, and blow it to hell and back. Killing everyone on board and most of the people on the attached space defense platform. Now most of those people will be imperials, but alot of them will be people who know how to fix stuff that were drafted by the imperials to work on the Star Destroyer and therefore innocent in the context of the situation. We won't get DSPs for that though. How is throwing that one guy off the catwalk after telling him that he failed any more morally wrong that killing off a bunch of innocent people to complete a military objective?

Thus is my beef with the StarWars morality. I accept that StarWars is a black/white, good/evil universe. No pesky shades of gray to leave room for interpretation. Hell I've even played a Jedi rather successfully. It's just that sometimes it gets ridiculous.


I'm more than willing to take the dsp in this situation because that is what the rules call for, that is the way the Star Wars morality works, plus it fits the story arc for the character that i'm playing. Just figured i'd toss my side of the story out there
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"He who knows others is wise. He who knows himself is enlightened. He who conquers others has physical strength. He who conquers himself is strong."
-Tao-te Ching

[Ankhanu]

[Gry Sarth]

I agree that the team should never get DSPs for destroying a Star Destroyer full of imperials. That's war, and Star Wars is about, well.. wars.

However, killing that single ISB agent warrants a DSP for the particular cruelty of the act itself. As I explained earlier, finishing off the incapacitated imperial would be perfectly allright in the rules of engagement. But when you go through the trouble of reviving him, rubbing his failure in his face and THEN murdering him in cold blood, that crosses the line between military combat and cruelty.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[masque]

[Ankhanu]

[Savaad]

[vong]

Ankhanu hit the button there - The fact that you revived him just to rub something in his face and kill him is what would merit the DSP. Perhaps the fact that you hung him as well.

If you would have met him on even grounds, and killed him with a blaster shot - or mortally wounded him and didnt save him, that would be fine.

It was how you went about killing him not that you killed him

With respect to the SD you are gonna blow - it is war, and thats what happens. As well, if you dont do that, they will kill countless others in the name of the empire, so that is why it does not merit a DSP in my eyes.
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[Esoomian]

I guess I've just always imagined that the force doesn't really have a will or morality of it's own and someone has to know/believe they're doing something wrong before they can feel the taint of the darkside. If a PC can honestly say they don't think their in character actions were wrong/evil (especially if they're not force sensitive) then I wouldn't hand out a DSP.

For instance if a PC was duped into destroying an unarmed ship of refugees because faulty information led them to believe it was some sort of typhoid Mary or a suicide bomber with a weapon that could incinerate a planetary biosphere then I might award a DSP for a Jedi character after they find out what they've done but even once they find out what they've done I wouldn't hand out a DSP for a non force sensitive character.
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[garhkal]

[Ankhanu]

[Gry Sarth]

I just wanted to add that, unlike others here, I don't think a DSP is a form of punishment. Reducing CPs is punishment, awarding a DSP is mereley stating the fact that a character was tainted by an evil action. The said character should certainly be awarded all the CPs his roleplaying earned him, giving him a DSP has nothing to do with it.

For me it's very simple, here's a character who has no problem reviving an incapacitated enemy just to abuse him and execute him in cold blood. The morals of this character are expressed by that dark side point on his sheet. Nothing more to it. Game on.

A couple of times I have suggested to the GM that my character should receive a DSP for some particularly inhuman action.
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"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."

[masque]