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Red 331
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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Location: Nebraska
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 Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: Han Solo, a Half-witted Smuggler After All? |
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| I was looking at the stats for Han Solo recently, and noticed in several sources (including Special Edition Trilogy Sourcebook) that his Knowledge attribute is 2D, instead of the 2D+1 for the Smuggler template. All his other attributes are identical to the Smuggler template (pg 282 2nd R&E) , leaving him with only 17D+2 in attribute dice. Am I missing something, or was Solo half-witted after all? |
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Whill
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Gry Sarth
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Although 2D KNW is certainly not half-witted, it is quite strange that they wouldn't give Han the full 18D in attributes...
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Ankhanu
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: |
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While interesting, keep in mind that Han is not a PC, and probably wasn't statted using a PC die base. Chances are he was statted based on "observed" abilities rather than maintaining a particular, kinda arbitrary number of dice.
That's part of the fun of NPCs; you don't have to follow the +6D Attributes/7D skills format.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Ankhanu wrote: | While interesting, keep in mind that Han is not a PC, and probably wasn't statted using a PC die base. Chances are he was statted based on "observed" abilities rather than maintaining a particular, kinda arbitrary number of dice.
That's part of the fun of NPCs; you don't have to follow the +6D Attributes/7D skills format. |
I completely agree.
Also, keep in mind that is just each author's interpretation. Anyone can make stats for a character. I have rarely ever found stats from someone else (in an "official" publication or not) that I haven't tweaked in some way.
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Red 331
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Posts: 215
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know - I think this showed Leia may have been on to something. 
My bet is that someone at WEG just copied the "Smuggler" template (found in the 1st Ed Rulebook) wrong in creating Solo's stats in the 1st Edition Sourcebook. Then they either didn't catch it, or didn't correct it in order to be consistent with the original stats.
All the other "Heroes" (Leia, Luke, Chewie, etc.) that I've seen listed include the PC template name (Smuggler, Senator, etc.) used to derive their stats - albeit modified sometimes, as Whill and Ankhanu indicated, such as with Luke having 2 pips less in Perception than the standard "Brash Pilot" template - along with force skills. I can understand why the sum of attribute and force die might be GREATER than the standard template - since characters can increase attribute die over time - but it seems odd that Solo would have LESS than 18D, as Gry indicated.
I just thought it was funny - but I might just be having delusions of grandeur.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Red 331 wrote: | | I can understand why the sum of attribute and force die might be GREATER than the standard template - since characters can increase attribute die over time - but it seems odd that Solo would have LESS than 18D, as Gry indicated. |
Since GCs are not and should not be bound by PC guidelines for characters, then there is no set # of attribute dice they should have. I agree that most of the heroes from the movies would likely have more than 18D attributes the way I would stat them, if I would ever care to do that.
However, I think it would be a little generous to give Leia even 2D in Strength. A 4'11" 89 lbs. human woman with STR 3D? Come on, that's more than a little rediculous. Maybe she would have some high STR skills, but the base attribute? That's a good example of why I don't put much stock in "official" stats.
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Red 331
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
However, I think it would be a little generous to give Leia even 2D in Strength. A 4'11" 89 lbs. human woman with STR 3D? Come on, that's more than a little rediculous. Maybe she would have some high STR skills, but the base attribute? That's a good example of why I don't put much stock in "official" stats. |
I think Carrie Fisher is actually 5'1" - and don't forget not to judge her by her size, Whill. I agree - 3D STR does seem high, although some of the strongest people I know are actually smaller in stature. You raise an interesting point - and a potentially good thread on its own (unless there already is one) - what official stats for the better-known characters do you think should be changed and why? |
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masque
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
However, I think it would be a little generous to give Leia even 2D in Strength. A 4'11" 89 lbs. human woman with STR 3D? Come on, that's more than a little rediculous. Maybe she would have some high STR skills, but the base attribute? That's a good example of why I don't put much stock in "official" stats. |
Carrie Fisher is 5' 1" as Red 331 mentioned, and there's no way she weighs 89 lbs, whether now, or in her gold plated bikini heyday (she may be 30+ years older than she was in Ep IV, but she's still beautiful to me). She's way healthier looking than that (especially in the gold bikini). I've know 89 or similar lb. women of comparable height, they are decidedly unhealthy looking, not at all like Leia. To me, 3D is a pretty average attribute stat for a PC, let alone a hero of the Holy Trilogy like Leia is. I see no problem.
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Whill
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| masque wrote: | | Whill wrote: |
However, I think it would be a little generous to give Leia even 2D in Strength. A 4'11" 89 lbs. human woman with STR 3D? Come on, that's more than a little rediculous. Maybe she would have some high STR skills, but the base attribute? That's a good example of why I don't put much stock in "official" stats. |
Carrie Fisher is 5' 1" as Red 331 mentioned, and there's no way she weighs 89 lbs, whether now, or in her gold plated bikini heyday (she may be 30+ years older than she was in Ep IV, but she's still beautiful to me). She's way healthier looking than that (especially in the gold bikini). I've know 89 or similar lb. women of comparable height, they are decidedly unhealthy looking, not at all like Leia. To me, 3D is a pretty average attribute stat for a PC, let alone a hero of the Holy Trilogy like Leia is. I see no problem. |
I got 4'11" from converting a Star Wars 1E source (that I no longer have)from the metric system to conventional. My guess is that they rounded down when converting her height to meters. Silly me for assuming a WEG game writer would do the math correctly or be precise. My bad. And the weight was a guess based on that height and how petite she looks in ANH, but I really do not know, or care, how much she really weighs. Even at 5'1, she is still a smaller person.
"Official stats" give Leia 3D STR and stormtroopers have 2D STR. If that works for your game, then good for you. I'm trying to imagine little Leia wrestling with a stormtrooper and the official stats don't make sense to me.
My point in relation to the topic of this thread was, to not put too much stock in official stats. The stats are rules, and rules are not immutable edicts of God set in stone. Rules are ultimately the domain of each GM, who is Lord and Master of his own Star Wars universe. If you want Han to have one less pip in KNO than your Smuggler PC, then so be it. If you have no problem with Leia being stronger than a stormtrooper, then, in your game, thy will be done. In my game's universe, Leia is weaker and stormtroopers are stronger than the offical stats, because I do not feel bound by any rule or stat.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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I think the reason Leia's Strength is 3d is so she can absorb damage without dying.
The real dilema with Strength is that a stronger person is also tougher, which isn't always the case. Probably a discussion for another thread.
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