The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Missile Weapons? Firearms?
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech -> Missile Weapons? Firearms?
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Yasriia
Sub-Lieutenant
Sub-Lieutenant


Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:41 pm    Post subject: Missile Weapons? Firearms? Reply with quote

While looking for some interesting weapons I found in Galladinium's Fantastic Technology (one of the very few sourcebooks I own Sad ), that a Verpine shattergun is associated with the firearms skill.
But I found in "Galladiniums" the magna caster aswell. The magna caster is associated with the missile weapons skill
The description of both of the weapons indicate, that they use projectiles.

So I was wondering why is the magna caster a missile weapon?

Or even more general: what defines a missile weapon?
- a self-propelled projectile?
- some kind of explosives? Like grenadelaunchers

And even the wirst vac blades and the flechette smart pistol are missile weapons.
I mean all these 4 weapons inflict damage with pure kinetic energy on impact. Don't they?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ankhanu
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 3089
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think more to the point, why is the Verpine Shattergun a firearm? It uses a controlled magnetic field to fire its projectile like a rail gun... it should be used under Missile Weapons as well, not Firearms.

Basically, Missile Weapons is intended to cover projectile weapons that impart velocity through a means other than a taught string (bows) or initial, external combustion (firearms). This should cover rail guns, missile launchers, grenade launchers, flachettes, rockets, compressed gas launchers, etc.

I think the reason for the confusion comes down to simple inconsistency on WEG's part... something that wasn't terribly uncommon.
_________________
Hotaru no Hishou; a messageboard about games, friends and nothing at all.

Donate to Ankhanu Press
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14032
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. The Shatter gun is like the Magna caster in using magnetics to propel its projectile. Ergo it should be a missile weapon like the caster.

Now one NICE weapon in the book is the Prax arms HB-4. Also a missile weapon, but fires a bullet like a firearm rifle, with a tow cable (to give it guidance) but it does so out to 8 KILOMETERS!!!! Now, hows that for 'reaching out and touching someone? Twisted Evil
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yasriia
Sub-Lieutenant
Sub-Lieutenant


Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, okay thanks. I was only thinking about rockets, due to some bad translation in my rulebook. Now I got the idea of missile weapons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gry Sarth
Jedi


Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always envisioned that the difference between firearms and missile weapons is the behaviour of the ordenance. Firearms are normal guns. You fire, the "bullet" comes out instantly and very fast and speeds towards its target pretty much in a straight line. There's virtually no need to compensate for gravity or wind, etc. With missile weapons, well, the "bullet" behaves like a missile, with slower speed and moving in an arc, self propelled, with a different ignition behaviour and sometimes self-guided. Aiming it at a target requires a different mindset, compensating for gravity, movement, leading the target more, etc.
_________________
"He's Gry Sarth, of course he has the stats for them."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bren
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
Firearms are normal guns. You fire, the "bullet" comes out instantly and very fast and speeds towards its target pretty much in a straight line. There's virtually no need to compensate for gravity or wind, etc.

My understanding is you do compensate for gravity and wind when firing a firearm. It becomes quite significant at longer ranges and at shorter ranges, unless you adjust the sights, you have to negatively compensate for gravity, i.e. shoot below where you want to hit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But what I think Gry is saying is that firearm means the bullet is only affected to a small degree (inches over hundreds of yards) while missile means a large degree (feet over hundreds of yards).

Which is directly related to speed. A high velocity bullet is less affected than a slow bullet.
_________________
Blasted rules. Why can't they just be perfect?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bren
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmanski wrote:
But what I think Gry is saying is that firearm means the bullet is only affected to a small degree (inches over hundreds of yards) while missile means a large degree (feet over hundreds of yards).

Which is directly related to speed. A high velocity bullet is less affected than a slow bullet.

OK I get what you are saying. But isn't that also true for blasters and lasers. Which then raises the question of why firearms and blasters are different skills, but bows, grenade launchers, and man-portable missile launchers are the same (missile) skill.

Do we assume that firearms have significantly more recoil than blasters? That might account for them being different skills to fire.

It also seems that many weapons bows, guns, blasters the shooter aims or sights in alignment with the weapon, but for thrown weapons, slings, bolos, etc. your line of sight is not aligned along the weapon. That could lead to dividing weapons into categories based on differences in how they operate.

1) Direct or indirect fire
2) Recoil is high or low
3) Firer aims along the weapon or not

Thus a blaster might be a direct fire, low recoil, aligned aimed weapon while a firearm is a direct fire, high recoil, aligned aim weapon. I doubt I will try to readjust the categories, but it is nice to at least think about why it might need a different skill to fire different weapons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ejacobs
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 183
Location: Afghanistan...Again

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take on the reason for different skills for Firearms and Blasters is it's not just about pulling a trigger, it's also about the little things that you take for granted when using a weapon; loading, cleaning, simple operator maintenance, immediate action for misfires, remedial actions for jams, and so on. True some of those examples don't apply to blasters, but if you've only ever used blasters, and suddenly find yourself firing a slugthrower, what do you immediately do when you pull the trigger and nothing happens? That is how I explain it to myself anyways.

YMMV.
E
_________________
"Somebody, just SHOOT somebody!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Sovereign Protector


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14032
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. Most blasters don't even seem to have safeties... Fire arms also need to be loaded and cocked.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
My understanding is you do compensate for gravity and wind when firing a firearm. It becomes quite significant at longer ranges and at shorter ranges, unless you adjust the sights, you have to negatively compensate for gravity, i.e. shoot below where you want to hit.


Indeed you do. Hunters worry about "drop" and must aim accordingly. In fact, when a rifle7s sights are adjusted ("zeroed out") they are set for a particlar range and drop, as a bullet fires in an arc rather than a straignt line. This drop is one of the main resons why pistol ranges are so realtively short, too. For example, a bullet fired from an old (1800s) era .44 drops about 6 feet over 200 yards. So if you want to shoot someone standing 200 yards away, you would have to aim about 6 feet above the target.


This drop is the same 32ft (9.8 meters) per second per second accleration that all falling object have. So you can work out how long it will take for the shot to "fall" to the ground,aqnd then work out how far the projecticle would have travelled horizontally in that time. It is cmplicated somewhat since most proejectiles slow down due to fiction with the atmosphere, and not at the same rate, and becuase the bullet will benefit from slight amount of lift created by the projectile in flight.



Lasers would also be affected, but since lasers travel at the speed of light, the "shot" would travel over 100 thousand miles before grravity would pull it to the ground. Typically this means that the laser would probably hit somethiing or disperse long before gravirty would be a factor.

Blasters would, in theory, be like lasers, but on screen evidence would seem to indicate that blaster bolts are moving much slower than the speed of light, and more like bullets.


The reason why the use of a bow was called archery was because the reltively slow travelling arrow would require the bowman to arch his shot.

Rockets, gygets and the like differ in that they benfit from addtional force being applied to the projectile during flight. Such projecticles usually don7t begin to drop until the addtional force/engine thrust runs out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Ships, Vehicles, Equipment, and Tech All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0