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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Update...Force Powers will now be separate skills. However the structure will not stay the same, there will be less skills but they will cover a larger area. |
Sounds a bit like a return to first edition. I'll be curious how it works out adn what you see as the advantages/disadvantages after you've played for a while. |
Hmm, I have played a lot of 1st ed but it was a long time ago. I dont really remember that system. I found the 1st ed rulebook 'somewhere' and I from what I recall the skills and force powers were the same. Sure, there were less powers, but they werent so general as the above.
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cunning_kindred
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Update
Force Skills will now be Force Abilities, otherwise stay the same.
Force Powers will now be separate skills.
These will be bought separatly. To keep Jedis from becoming even worse CP-sinks than in the RAW (as there will be several more skills to raise) you will probably get a 'free' skill dice when you advance a Force Ability.
However the structure will not stay the same, there will be less skills but each will in general cover a larger area of actions.
For example Force Sense will cover, telepathy, Farseeing, Danger Sense, etc. The different applications will have different difficulties.
Force Body will cover Control Pain, Accelerate Healing, Detoxify poison, etc.
The exact structure is still being set, but these are the principles. Im basically working with the D6 Powers and the Wookie lists of powers.
Next problem to solve: How to have Force Skills (ie RAW Force Powers) using several Force Abilities interact without having to roll more than one roll (perhaps two skill rolls for those relying on three Abilities with no single Ability as the most influental).
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I cant access your force pdf, the program crashes (same for basic rules and techniques).
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
I cant access your force pdf, the program crashes (same for basic rules and techniques). |
Got it from Random Numbers..
Yeah, a bit similar, but I think Im going for less complexity though..
BTW, can you explain how these techniques works. Do you buy skill dice to roll vs difficulty?
Dark Side Temptation Test
Dark Side Score difficulty: Very Easy for using a Dark Side power (unless the power specifies a higher difficulty in its description), Easy for most minor moral crimes, Moderate for involuntary murder, Difficult for murder, Very Difficult for impassioned crimes, Heroic or higher for atrocities; opposed by your own Force attribute + 1D and if you did anything other than use a dark side power +2D if you expended a Force Point to perform the act, +3D if you spent a Force Point and called upon a dark side power with it
Time to Use: Free Action (Reaction)
Duration: Instantaneous
Reaction: This technique is used whenever a character performs an action that the Games Master decides warrants a dark side point.
If this technique is not successfully used you gain a dark side point and your dark side score therefore increases by +1. If you ever attain a dark side score equal to or higher than the lower of your own Perception or Knowledge attribute you become tainted. This makes you susceptible to Falling to the Dark Side. Whenever you gain a dark side point you must use the Resist the Fall technique or become a dark side character. If you ever attain a Dark Side score equal to or higher than the total of both your Perception and Knowledge you automatically fall to the dark side.
(A) Resist the Fall
Willpower Difficulty: Easy, opposed by your own Force + Dark Side score (the GM rolls those characteristics to oppose you)
Time to Use: Free Action (Reaction)
Reaction: this technique is used whenever you gain a dark side point to avoid falling to the dark side
Requires: Character must be tainted
If you successfully use this technique you do not become a Dark Side character. If you ever have a Dark Side score equal to or higher than the total of your Perception and Knowledge attributes added together you automatically fail to use this technique and become a dark side character.
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Nico_Davout
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Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Update...Force Powers will now be separate skills. However the structure will not stay the same, there will be less skills but they will cover a larger area. |
Sounds a bit like a return to first edition. I'll be curious how it works out adn what you see as the advantages/disadvantages after you've played for a while. |
1st edition or D20. I have done the same thing with my force rules, but still not happy with that. I would rather see about some few main 'force disciplines/areas" from which players build the effect they want to make. So someone could be better in healing (Jedi healers) and other better in creating illusions (like Corran Horn). Instead of making rules for each specific action like enhance attribute, haste, lightsaber combat there should be simple rule that Jedi, as his abilities grown, can move faster and predict better how does his opponent strike him gaining a bonus to a defense/attack. Something which would work like magic in the Mage: The Ascension game.
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Nico_Davout wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Update...Force Powers will now be separate skills. However the structure will not stay the same, there will be less skills but they will cover a larger area. |
Sounds a bit like a return to first edition. I'll be curious how it works out adn what you see as the advantages/disadvantages after you've played for a while. |
1st edition or D20. I have done the same thing with my force rules, but still not happy with that. I would rather see about some few main 'force disciplines/areas" from which players build the effect they want to make. So someone could be better in healing (Jedi healers) and other better in creating illusions (like Corran Horn). Instead of making rules for each specific action like enhance attribute, haste, lightsaber combat there should be simple rule that Jedi, as his abilities grown, can move faster and predict better how does his opponent strike him gaining a bonus to a defense/attack. Something which would work like magic in the Mage: The Ascension game. |
Dont you mean Ars Magica? At least it sound similar, but perhaps there are similar rules. When it comes to 'Tragic' I have only played the CCG..
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: |
But I think you may not have fully analyzed how the different parts work in this revamp. If you look above you will see that while LS combat can be put up as a free action. Drawing the LS and parring are actions (that's 2 actions). If Haste rules are used, then the Jedi can use 1 or 2 hastes to be able to parry the opponents attacks (so 3-4 actions). |
So if haste actions are not used by the gm, is is all out anyway, as he is still hosed..
If the attack is by surprise, then that might count as 2 additional hastes (so 5-6 actions).
| Quote: | Force Powers will now be separate skills.
These will be bought separatly. To keep Jedis from becoming even worse CP-sinks than in the RAW (as there will be several more skills to raise) you will probably get a 'free' skill dice when you advance a Force Ability.
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Care to give us an example Mr Z.
| Quote: | Dark Side Temptation Test
Dark Side Score difficulty: Very Easy for using a Dark Side power (unless the power specifies a higher difficulty in its description), Easy for most minor moral crimes, Moderate for involuntary murder, Difficult for murder, Very Difficult for impassioned crimes, Heroic or higher for atrocities; opposed by your own Force attribute + 1D and if you did anything other than use a dark side power +2D if you expended a Force Point to perform the act, +3D if you spent a Force Point and called upon a dark side power with it
Time to Use: Free Action (Reaction)
Duration: Instantaneous
Reaction: This technique is used whenever a character performs an action that the Games Master decides warrants a dark side point.
If this technique is not successfully used you gain a dark side point and your dark side score therefore increases by +1. If you ever attain a dark side score equal to or higher than the lower of your own Perception or Knowledge attribute you become tainted. This makes you susceptible to Falling to the Dark Side. Whenever you gain a dark side point you must use the Resist the Fall technique or become a dark side character. If you ever attain a Dark Side score equal to or higher than the total of both your Perception and Knowledge you automatically fall to the dark side. |
Wa... So you now not onlu get a skill roll (needing only 5) to resist gaining a darkside point from Auto point giving dark side force powers, but it also makes it harder to fall as you first have to be tainted THEN you get yet another skilll check to resist the fall...
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | So if haste actions are not used by the gm, is is all out anyway, as he is still hosed..
If the attack is by surprise, then that might count as 2 additional hastes (so 5-6 actions). |
Correct, if haste actions are not allowed, then if the Jedi is acting last or is surprised the Jedi doesn't have a lightsaber out to parry with. So no parry (at least until the Jedi's turn to act.)
In this case, I expect players will push the GM to have Danger Sense on most of the time so they are not surprised; just like I expect players who run combat veteran characters will push to have a chance to detect ambushes before they happen because of their situational awareness and familiarity with the ambush tactic.
Obviously, most players don't like having their characters killed because they weren't allowed to dodge or parry. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In this case, I expect players will push the GM to have Danger Sense on most of the time so they are not surprised; just like I expect players who run combat veteran characters will push to have a chance to detect ambushes before they happen because of their situational awareness and familiarity with the ambush tactic. |
And if they could come to me with a logical argument how one could maintain concentration that long on a power, (danger sense) then i might allow it. As for the ambush... that is what the perception check is for (or search if they are actively looking)..
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I've considered is making all powers a single action.
For powers that use multiple skills, roll the lowest skill vs. the highest difficulty. For example lightsaber Combat would roll the lowest of CONTROL or SENSE against a Moderate difficulty.
I think lowering the number of actions would help Jedi be able to chew gum ans walk with alightsaber at the same time. The highest difficulty/lowest skill ensures that they still need to raise multiple skills to use a power effectively.
I've also considered changing LS combat to give the lowest of CONTROL or SENSE to the character'S lighsaber skill, and then allowing Jedi to use the called shot/increased damage rules from ther SpecForces handbook (trading off 1D of skill for 1D damage). |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Bren"] | garhkal wrote: |
In this case, I expect players will push the GM to have Danger Sense on most of the time so they are not surprised; just like I expect players who run combat veteran characters will push to have a chance to detect ambushes before they happen because of their situational awareness and familiarity with the ambush tactic.
Obviously, most players don't like having their characters killed because they weren't allowed to dodge or parry. |
Danger Sense is onmy list of banned powers. I once stopped a campaign cold becuase of it. A jedi who attacks "on the run" inside a building can get into and out of a room fast enough to essentially become blaster proof. The bad guys have to declare the round in advance, but don7t know where the Jedi is, so they can't declare an attack. |
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Random Numbers
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
Danger Sense is onmy list of banned powers. I once stopped a campaign cold becuase of it. A jedi who attacks "on the run" inside a building can get into and out of a room fast enough to essentially become blaster proof. The bad guys have to declare the round in advance, but don7t know where the Jedi is, so they can't declare an attack. |
I'd say the power would have worked against the Jedi, since obviously the game master have to tell the guys lurking in the building that a Jedi are about to burst into the door. How would they otherwise declare their attack? And by doing that they would also perhaps suspect that there are other enemies around.
It can sometimes be dangerous to press a description of a power or a skill. If I was that Jedi I would keep very quiet about that power in that scenario...
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | One thing I've considered is making all powers a single action.
For powers that use multiple skills, roll the lowest skill vs. the highest difficulty. For example lightsaber Combat would roll the lowest of CONTROL or SENSE against a Moderate difficulty.
I think lowering the number of actions would help Jedi be able to chew gum ans walk with alightsaber at the same time. The highest difficulty/lowest skill ensures that they still need to raise multiple skills to use a power effectively.
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I could see that if the powers inc the higher diff 1 cat per additional power it uses. Ergo LS combat (2 power) has a easy cont, mod sense. So using the above it would make it a diff one skill use roll.
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:12 am Post subject: |
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[quote="atgxtg"][quote="Bren"] | garhkal wrote: |
Danger Sense is on my list of banned powers...The bad guys have to declare the round in advance, but don't know where the Jedi is, so they can't declare an attack. |
The writeup is clearly silly and broken.
As a fix, we typically give the Jedi a free round to prepare against the attack when the danger sense is triggered. It's not perfect, but it beats strange time paradoxes like opponents declaring attacks before they can see the Jedi. And, IIR, since the Jedi is preparing during a "free round" there is no time to warn the rest of the party ahead of time, so it doesn't totally blow the bad guy's ambush.
We also tend to have reasonable players running the Jedi. They only put up danger sense when there is a reason to suspect there might be something dangerous about to happen. They don't have it up all the time. Also, since it counts as a -MAP it does make it more difficult to sneak, search, and make Perception rolls while maintaining your spidey sense. |
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