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Leon The Lion
Commander
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
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 Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: |
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For what's it worth, I was not trying to attack you or accuse you of anything. What I was, was totally baffled and bamboozled at what you were proposing - mostly because I misunderstood your intention, as it turned out. But my confusion and surprise seems to have gone over as agression.
As you say, the foibles of text communication and it's difficulty of transmitting tone.
No harm done, I hope.
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Centinull
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 156
Location: The Outer Rim Territories
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: |
Yes, the Martial Arts specialization is totally broken. Not only does it give you everything Brawling does, at full effectiveness, but also grants access to additional goodies in the form of maneuvers. All of this at half CP cost for normal Brawling! How this got through play-testing I have no idea. Or else I'm greatly confusing something about how it's supposed to work. No matter, for my game I house-ruled it to Hel and back.
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If all skills were equal in effectiveness, Martial Arts would be a bargain.
In a world where lightsabers, vibroweapons, and blasters are the norm, punching your adversaries is a sub-optimal strategy 99% of the time.
Brawling requires your opponent to literally be within arms reach.
Brawling limits you to doing STR damage
Brawling Parry is the least effective of all the defensive skills
Melee Combat has slightly better range
Melee Combat allows you to increase your damage (easily up to STR+3D)
Melee Combat enjoys bonuses against Brawling Parry, no penalty against melee parry, and saves your limbs from lightsabers
Lightsaber combines the offensive and defensive skills into a single skill.
Lightsaber use leaves the opponents weapons and limbs on the floor
Lightsaber can also be used to parry Blaster Bolts
I like to think the Martial Arts rules were a way to try and bring unarmed combat up to similar level of effectiveness. It's still inherently more risky to use, but the increased damage, and lower CP cost make it a more attractive option. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14088
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| griff wrote: | | I have been know to give characters free specializations, but usually they are for specific languages or scholar skills. And I require scholars to have a specialization even without a base skill of scholar I just use knowledge as a base. |
With scholar its not really a 'specialty; but a field of study.
| Quote: | | Oh yeah, I forgot Thrown Weapons: Zenji Needles, which has to be my favorite specialization in the game. It's a real pain to get someone to teach it to you, but any skill that lets you thrown hair accessories for STR+3D+1 is pretty awesome. |
Yup. But since they are listed as "Not for sale" and an availability 4, its hard as heck to acquire any.
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griff
Captain
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 507
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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There are a few skills that I require a "specialization" that is just a normal skill. - artist, scholar, tactics, and (a) engineering. You just can't have artist you have to have artist: play flute (i have an ewok with this skill).
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2687
Location: Online
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:17 am Post subject: |
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I have gone over RAW and I cannot see where a specialization after character creation gives a +1D bonus. Seems odd to buy a +1 pip for specializations at half cost and get a +1D bonus. Thoughts anyone?
Example: Moo-ekah has Droid Repair 4D and buys Droid Repair: R2 units for 4/2 = 2 character points and now has a dice pool of 5D.
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Quetzacotl
Commander
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 281
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Shouldn't that be 4D+1 for the specialization?
So Mooekah has 4D in Droid Repair and has 4D+1 in Droid Repair: R2 units.
That seems to make more sense to me. |
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2687
Location: Online
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah me too. That +1D, half cost for 1/2 price? That is beyond silly. Why wouldn't players just choose specialization skill after specialization ... ad nauseum?
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Quetzacotl
Commander
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 281
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Because bugusing is bad? ^^ |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14088
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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As i mentioned earlier, it seems teh 1d for the +1 in cost is only during character creation. Heck, neither book (the base rulebook or the R&E one) seems to list anything for learning specializations in game, just increasing the ones you already have.
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griff
Captain
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 507
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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The one die for the cost of one pip during character creation only. When you split one of your 7D of creation die into three +1 pips to buy a specialization at 1D above the base skill. After character creation to buy a specialization you pay half the number in front of the D of the base skill to raise the specialization one pip above the base skill.
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2687
Location: Online
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | As i mentioned earlier, it seems teh 1d for the +1 in cost is only during character creation. Heck, neither book (the base rulebook or the R&E one) seems to list anything for learning specializations in game, just increasing the ones you already have. |
R&E p.35, "Characters can learn a new skill or specialization by paying enough Character Points to advance it one pip above the attribute. There is no training time if the character "used the skill" in the last adventure. Otherwise, use the normal rules for training time."
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2260
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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What griff said. I think the RAW are quite clear that new specializations later on (after character creation) only advance one pip. It clearly says so on p. 34 (under Training Time) and again on p, 35 (under Learning New Skills, Skills and Specializations).
It's also worth noting (since I haven't seen it talked about yet), that potential abuse of the specialization rules is somewhat prevented/mitigated by the restriction of only allowing 1 of the 7 dice (that one gets at character creation for advancing skills) to be split into three specialties. The rules say "you can spend 1D of your character's beginning skill dice..."
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griff
Captain
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 507
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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DougRed64,
While only 1D is allowed to be "pipped" out to get 1D for three specializations, do you of anybody allow the any or all of the 7D to be "pipped" out to raise normal skills one pip during character creation. I have allowed this.
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shootingwomprats
Rear Admiral
Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 2687
Location: Online
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well the additional odd thing about specialization, and I think this was because it in the same sentence as new skills, is that it defaults to the attribute and not the derivative skill. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either.
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Don Diestler
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griff
Captain
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 507
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought that the specialization defaulted to the base skill not the attribute, unless the base skill was never improved, than you could start with specialization without having to improve the base skill, because you have that skill equal to the attribute by default, as long as it is listed for the character.
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