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Lets talk Dark Side: Force Lightning and Telekinetic Kill
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
@Gharkal

the sutuation was such that TK was actually not a learned power and the sole offensive power of the guy was the force lightning, however we could say that despite all and thespite the carrying through and making the target convulge, it was a "mere zap"

but yes it is an iteresting situation indeed


Strange, FL has no pre-requisit powers..
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Mamatried wrote:
@Gharkal

the sutuation was such that TK was actually not a learned power and the sole offensive power of the guy was the force lightning, however we could say that despite all and thespite the carrying through and making the target convulge, it was a "mere zap"

but yes it is an iteresting situation indeed


Strange, FL has no pre-requisit powers..



yes, so unless I misunderstand your TK here, I was thinking telekinetic Kill, and no the player in question ad only one offensive power, force lightning, he didn't have telekinetic kill or injure/kill, not even a force push.

but yes is still a interesting situation.

How about a force menaifestiation, where the force manifest in people, like a child having the ability to "force spark", a version of force lightning if you will, but naturally learned or "gifted" by the force, much like the various prodigies......call it a curse......again Ican not see how a skill is evil by it self.

I KILL someone with a blaster, or I wound them, stun them, I do this BECUSE....and the same imo goes with the force. it is the "becuse" that should give the darkside point not the mere use.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:

yes, so unless I misunderstand your TK here, I was thinking telekinetic Kill, and no the player in question ad only one offensive power, force lightning, he didn't have telekinetic kill or injure/kill, not even a force push.


I was on about TK as Telekinesis, not telekinetic kill.

Mamatried wrote:
but yes is still a interesting situation.

How about a force menaifestiation, where the force manifest in people, like a child having the ability to "force spark", a version of force lightning if you will, but naturally learned or "gifted" by the force, much like the various prodigies......call it a curse......again Ican not see how a skill is evil by it self.

I KILL someone with a blaster, or I wound them, stun them, I do this BECUSE....and the same imo goes with the force. it is the "becuse" that should give the darkside point not the mere use.


I see it, cause of how FL is described, as 'WILLFULLY TAPPING the darkside", as that is why its a "EVIL SKILL".. Thus to me, there is no "grey area" on it. I see it as VERY black and white.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I was on about TK as Telekinesis, not telekinetic kill.
An easy mistake to make. I've used TK for telekinesis in other games that didn't have Telekinetic Kill as a separate thing.

To me that brings up more interesting question. Does Telekinetic Kill need to be a specific power or should it just be an evil or Dark Side use of the already existing Telekinesis ability?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
garhkal wrote:
I was on about TK as Telekinesis, not telekinetic kill.
An easy mistake to make. I've used TK for telekinesis in other games that didn't have Telekinetic Kill as a separate thing.

To me that brings up more interesting question. Does Telekinetic Kill need to be a specific power or should it just be an evil or Dark Side use of the already existing Telekinesis ability?


True, some see TK as telekinesis, while others think telekinetic kill.. To me the latter should be TKK...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely, the mental "fuel" needed to use Force Lightning is so inherently dark that it requires willfully tapping into the Dark Side. This isn't like firing a blaster, this is purposefully summoning pure hatred and the desire to see someone suffer, so intense that it manifests in physical form. So sure, you could use FL for non-evil purposes, but the mental pathway to summon it requires willingly surrendering to that evil in yourself first.

Now, it may be possible for a Jedi to learn other powers that allow them to generate energy (heat, electricity, etc), but Force Lightning is a quintessential Dark Side power, and should remain so.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe that's why the Electrical Judgement force power, was 'created' in the EU series of novels.. So good guys had their own version.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Maybe that's why the Electrical Judgement force power, was 'created' in the EU series of novels.. So good guys had their own version.

I have never liked Electric Judgment; it originated in a video game, and video games are always questionable sources of canon. Trying to introduce it into the RPG seems like little more than an attempt to bypass the roadblocks put in place to keep Jedi PCs from using Force Lightning. At the very least, I'd give Electric Judgment multiple prerequisites and put the Difficulty levels at Heroic or higher.

Assuming I allowed it at all. Personally, I'd much rather flesh out the possibilities of Absorb/Dissipate Energy, and give Jedi the option of redirecting Force Lightning back at its user.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Maybe that's why the Electrical Judgement force power, was 'created' in the EU series of novels.. So good guys had their own version.


Yeah, I've always said that the good guys should have a version of Force Choke called Righteous Respiratory Restriction.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incidentally, there is possible one offensive option for Jedi, by adding a slight EU twist to the power Place Another In Hibernation Trance. Per the power, it can only be used on a willing subject, but with a slight twist (say, replace "willing subject only" with "can be used on unwilling subjects at +10 Difficulty), a Jedi could use this power to forcibly put a living target into a hibernation trance.

The EU version of this is called Morichro
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire wrote:
I've always said that the good guys should have a version of Force Choke called Righteous Respiratory Restriction.

Laughing
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Maybe that's why the Electrical Judgement force power, was 'created' in the EU series of novels.. So good guys had their own version.

I have never liked Electric Judgment; it originated in a video game, and video games are always questionable sources of canon. Trying to introduce it into the RPG seems like little more than an attempt to bypass the roadblocks put in place to keep Jedi PCs from using Force Lightning. At the very least, I'd give Electric Judgment multiple prerequisites and put the Difficulty levels at Heroic or higher.

Assuming I allowed it at all. Personally, I'd much rather flesh out the possibilities of Absorb/Dissipate Energy, and give Jedi the option of redirecting Force Lightning back at its user.



how about allowing it only "subdual damage" like an amped up shock prod/stun gun, and with anything after the "victim" is disbaled, shocked naturally, then the power deal actual damage and thus give a DSP, after all the litte we know of the skill, it seems this is a version that ploo was able to control the effects of, but also it seem a power that could be used or abused to be outright dark.

naturally making it much weaker, like 1/3 Alter to damage, making a force lightning by a 6D jedi deal at best 2D damage, this is not extreme, and can more easily be controlled to subdue, but not to ourtight kill.

I don't know but to me the existence of this power, as well much other canon and legends books and comics, should influence a RPG unless the only and sole scoope of this is the original trilogy only.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because no matter how you justify it, Electric Judgment feels like a cheezy betrayal of the Jedi ethos, all so a video game could shoehorn in a special effect, and by extension, so an immature player who wants his character to be able to shoot Force Lightning just like Palpatine did can have his way without the risk of losing his PC to the Dark Side.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Maybe that's why the Electrical Judgement force power, was 'created' in the EU series of novels.. So good guys had their own version.

I have never liked Electric Judgment; it originated in a video game, and video games are always questionable sources of canon. Trying to introduce it into the RPG seems like little more than an attempt to bypass the roadblocks put in place to keep Jedi PCs from using Force Lightning. At the very least, I'd give Electric Judgment multiple prerequisites and put the Difficulty levels at Heroic or higher.


You're not the only one who disliked it..

CRMcNeill wrote:
Because no matter how you justify it, Electric Judgment feels like a cheezy betrayal of the Jedi ethos, all so a video game could shoehorn in a special effect, and by extension, so an immature player who wants his character to be able to shoot Force Lightning just like Palpatine did can have his way without the risk of losing his PC to the Dark Side.


Agreed. I actually had a player once, try to use that argument for why his light side force user, should be allowed to use force lighting "I only want to stun with it, but if i roll too much damage, and cause actual injury, i should get the DSP.." Then he tried writing up the power with that in mind, and put in a willpower roll requirement (iirc) for lessening the damage it caused... Make the roll, then you could reduce the damage IF it was a wound or greater, to just a stun, but if you failed it, you caused full damage.
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