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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2260
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Han will probably just get nicer and nicer. He went from shooting first, to shooting second, and maybe next he'll be a guy who doesn't ever shoot anyone at all! [j/k] 
BTW, Margaret Weis Productions announced today that they're no longer able to move forward with the Marvel Heroic Roleplaying Game license, ending their run with the game.
Nobody has any solid info, but there's come rumors that Disney is going to have its own production house for RPGs moving forward.
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Fallon Kell
Commodore
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 1846
Location: Tacoma, WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Draven wrote: | | Fallon got to ask where in the PT did the writers show they did not know or care about the story. The only flaw I saw in the story was explained. That was the fact that at one time Yoda was Obi-Wans master. Which was explained by the fact that Yoda mastered the younglings till they were chosen to serve with a permanent master. |
Let's start with the tiny, whiney Dark Lord of the Sith who couldn't reach the top of OT Darth Vader's head. Let's go on to the Death Star plans being captured from Seperatists, rather than being designed by Bevel Lemelisk. Those are just the most glaring differences, ones whose memories are so traumatic, my subconscious can't suppress them. There are plenty more. Why did we see neither a single Victory-class star destroyer, not a Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser in that massive battle over Coruscant? Just like Star Trek, the prequels were written without regard to decades of good storytelling on related subject matter.
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Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Lucas has ever heard of a Dreadnaught.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallon Kell wrote: | | Let's start with the tiny, whiney Dark Lord of the Sith who couldn't reach the top of OT Darth Vader's head. |
Don't blame the prequels for that. The change in actors occurred in ROTJ.
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Let's go on to the Death Star plans being captured from Seperatists, rather than being designed by Bevel Lemelisk. |
Can't blame the PT there either. THe idea of the Death Star being designed by Bevel Lemelisk was a WEG invention, not something that was in the OT.
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Those are just the most glaring differences, ones whose memories are so traumatic, my subconscious can't suppress them. |
If those are the most glaring, then the PT is on good footing. Except, they aren't/
I can toss one out off the top of my head that's more glaring than that. THe whole "Uncle Owen didn't wasn't Anakin to get involved" thing. Considering that Owen Lars only meets Anakin after Anakin became a Jedi, and doesn;t say much too Anakin about Staying on Tatooine, the whole argument doesn't make any sense.
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Why did we see neither a single Victory-class star destroyer, not a Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser in that massive battle over Coruscant? |
Because the Dreadnuaght was another WEG invention, not part of the OT or any of Lucas' work.
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Just like Star Trek, the prequels were written without regard to decades of good storytelling on related subject matter. |
Not quite. Star Trek has never considered anything other than what is in the actual episodes or films as canon (with one exception). THe Trek novels, animated series, RPGs, star charts, and everything else is not part of the official Trek universe.
With Star Wars, the EU is technically considered canon, but in actual practice Lucas was not constrained to follow it, and rarely does so.
Where the Star Trek retread failed to regard "decades of good storytelling
on related subject matter" is in that they ignore or change stuff that was in the original episodes. Young Spock having a emotional scene on the bridge? Young Spock having a relationship with Uhuha. Kirk and Spock at the Academy at the same time? All that contradicts what's in TOS.
Now the PTs do have some problems. THey also seem to contradict the OT in some places, but some of the contradtictions can be explained away. But the PTs biggest weakness, IMO isn't in contradicting the OT, but that they just aren't very good films, and have some big plot holes. For instance, rather than Obi-wan, Yoda, and the other good guys working together to take down the Sith they decide to go into hiding and wait 20 years and dump everything on Anakin's untrained children. Since Obi-wan was able to defeat Vader on his own, it just doesn't make much sense...unless things needed to turn out that way to fit with the next film. And, of course they did. |
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Quetzacotl
Commander
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Posts: 281
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | With Star Wars, the EU is technically considered canon, but in actual practice Lucas was not constrained to follow it, and rarely does so. |
Are you sure about that? As far as I know, the EU is NOT considered canon. Only the OT, the PT and the Clone Wars animated series is considered canon, everything else can be subjected to change and has no canon value, as far as I know. |
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quetzacotl wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | With Star Wars, the EU is technically considered canon, but in actual practice Lucas was not constrained to follow it, and rarely does so. |
Are you sure about that? As far as I know, the EU is NOT considered canon. Only the OT, the PT and the Clone Wars animated series is considered canon, everything else can be subjected to change and has no canon value, as far as I know. |
Yup. THey even extend that to the video games such as X-Wing and KOTR. It's all "real".
I think the orginal reasoning was that Lucas wasn't intending on doing any more films after finishing ROTJ, and the other stuff helped to flesh out the setting in ways that Lucas wasn't going to have to deal with or worry about. So the EU did just that, it expanded the Star Wars Universe. And some of it, such as the WEG stuff was looked at favorably by Lucas, as gamers tend to fill in the sort of stuff that it takes to give verisimilitude to a setting, and that was exactly what Lucas wanted. And with nothing more due from Lucas, the EU helped to fill the need for more Star Wars (as well as make some money).
When Lucas changed his mind and decided to start making more Star Wars films, TV series, etc. the EU policy was already in place. I think if Lucas had planned to go back to Star Wars, he probably would have set up a policy on canon similar to Star Trek's. From a practicable standpoint, Lucas doesn't pay much attention to the EU, occasionally snatching a bit from it here and there (like the name for Twi'leks), but otherwise ignoring it. It's everybody else who gewt's stuck with the EU. |
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Quetzacotl
Commander
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| That's strange... I could swear that only recently I read an official statement somewhere that only the stuff from the EU that does not contradict the Movies or the Clone Wars Animated Series i considered canon and, in case of contradictions, the Movies / Anmated Series are canon and not the EU... which would mean that they could still do whatever they want, as EU only stands in the second row and can simply be disregarded.... but I have no clue where that article was -.- |
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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They've said "it's all cannon" but then they set up degrees of canonicity. The big ones are G-canon and C-canon, but then there are "lower grades" of cannon that occupy the space of the holiday special, or things that Lucas contradicts when making his own thing. Like how much of Children of the Jedi was undermined by the fact that the Jedi probably didn't have a bunch of babies during the prequel era.
| Quote: | We have what we call Canon, which is the screenplays, novelizations, and other works that are directly tied into continuity, and then there are a lot of marginal things, like the old Marvel Comics series, that we don't really try to work into the continuity when we're planning new projects. Even the LucasArts interactive games have a premise, a backstory with player characters that we're trying to tie into the overall continuity. It is sort of a godlike undertaking. We are creating this universe as we go along, but somebody has to keep his finger on everything that came before.
—Lucasfilm's then-continuity editor[1] Allan Kausch, The Secrets of Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire |
But there's still a lot of nuance left. I think that Wookieepedia covers the various levels of canon, but even then though it's all canon some things are more canonical than others. 
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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There does seem to be a big misunderstanding on the recent Trek reboot here. The new movie did not undermine or undo anything that had come before.
They very intentionally made their story in a completely different universe/timeline, so they could do what they want (blow up Vulcan, have Spock and Uhura hook up, etc.) without it interfering with the old stuff. JJ Abrams and the writers have been very clear about this, as they didn't want anyone to think that they weren't respecting what the hard-core Trekkies love from the past.
And yes, while Lucasfilm considers all of it 'canon', they have different levels of canon, and Lucas himself has never even seen/heard of most of the EU stuff, nor does he feel constrained to follow any of it. He tipped his hat to Zahn by naming the capital Coruscant, but that was the exception, rather than the rule.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 2460
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | There does seem to be a big misunderstanding on the recent Trek reboot here. The new movie did not undermine or undo anything that had come before.
They very intentionally made their story in a completely different universe/timeline, so they could do what they want (blow up Vulcan, have Spock and Uhura hook up, etc.) without it interfering with the old stuff. JJ Abrams and the writers have been very clear about this, as they didn't want anyone to think that they weren't respecting what the hard-core Trekkies love from the past. |
Oh, it was intentional all right, but it still undermined what came before. Altered timeline, whatever, there is no way the TOS characters would be at the academy at the same time (they are not all the same age), that Spock would be so emotional in front of witnesses, or that the Federation would turn over a top of the line ship over to somebody who just graduated from Starfleet Academy. .
They aren't respecting what the hard core Trekkies. love from the past. |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm imagining J.J. Abrams muttering something about the "butterfly effect" from the time-spacy thingy and the destruction of the federation ship.
Let's just hope that it doesn't go so far into left field like watching Highlander and Highlander 2.
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atgxtg
Rear Admiral
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | I'm imagining J.J. Abrams muttering something about the "butterfly effect" from the time-spacy thingy and the destruction of the federation ship. |
All the more reason to get Trek out of his hands. Abrams admits his style is more Star Wars than a Star Trek guy, so let him go work for Disney, retreading Star Wars. He can change who shoots first and what planets blow up! 
Let's just hope that it doesn't go so far into left field like watching Highlander and Highlander 2.[/quote]
 Eeeeek!
I wasn't planning on seeing the new Trek film anyway. I didn't care for the last one. Despite that, I think the film couldn't be as bad as Highlander 2. |
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Darth_Hilarious
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2013
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Location: Somewhere over there --------->
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: |
Let's just hope that it doesn't go so far into left field like watching Highlander and Highlander 2. |
Eeeeek!
I wasn't planning on seeing the new Trek film anyway. I didn't care for the last one. Despite that, I think the film couldn't be as bad as Highlander 2.[/quote]
If it came down to either watching Highlander 2 or watching paint dry.......................
I'd go with the paint  |
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DougRed4
Rear Admiral
Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Posts: 2260
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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I've never seen Highlander 2, and don't ever plan to. And while I'm a big Trek fan, I really enjoyed the reboot (though I get why some are upset). I never liked the explanation, but Trek always had this "infinite universes" idea that for every decision anyone makes, there are an infinite number of universes. Effectively that says that not only is there a universe where the characters are all young enough to attend the Academy together, but that there are infinite universes where that's the case. And on and on with just about anything you can think of. Like I said, I'm not a fan of this, but stories like the one where Worf experiences thousands of Enterprises coming into existence (when he returned from the bat'leth tournament) and others spell out that their cosmology works this way.
As for JJ Abrams and Trek (and Wars), check out today's excerpt on Blastr from his "Playboy" interview; there's other articles on Blastr with his opinion on why Trek should be "sexy", plus the revelation of Yoda's first name and other goodies! 8)
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cheshire
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like someone's been busy re-vamping a few ideas. It looks like a new animated TV show focusing on the budding Rebel Alliance.
http://starwars.com/news/new-animated-series-star-wars-rebels-coming-fall-2014.html
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