| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| crmcneill wrote: | | That works for me. I do think that the penalty for multiple shots should be relatively steep, though, as per the films, that's really the only way for a group of non-FS to take out a Jedi. While I did think Order 66 seemed just a little too flawless, the penalties should be such that a Jedi Master and Council member like Ki-Adi-Mundi could get overpowered by several clones all shooting simultaneously... |
10 Clones hitting a Jedi means a -27 penalty to parry the last shot, add basic difficulty of Easy youll end up with needing around 35 to parry. With a basic difficulty of Moderate its around 40. This is with a -3 penalty per shot above the first. Increase to a -4 if you feel this is to lenient (Ill go with -2 as my Jedis parry with half Lightsaber skill and full Sense).
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16232
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | 10 Clones hitting a Jedi means a -27 penalty to parry the last shot, add basic difficulty of Easy youll end up with needing around 35 to parry. With a basic difficulty of Moderate its around 40. This is with a -3 penalty per shot above the first. Increase to a -4 if you feel this is to lenient (Ill go with -2 as my Jedis parry with half Lightsaber skill and full Sense). |
Seems fair. Someone may have already mentioned it, but at full Lightsaber and full Sense to parry, a Jedi might be better served to just take the standard -1D MAP, as he would have a 50% chance of getting a penalty value below 4 on every D.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14088
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Bren wrote: |
garhkal, maybe you can explain again why you feel the rules modification is too generous to the Jedi PC? |
Cause you are not only giving them a dodge, but also a parry, and at twice the number it would take a exceptional combat character otherwise to be hit by..
You forget, the films just show us MASTERS who do this. Not minor force users, or just starting out knights. Changing the force rules so effectively beginning pcs are doing the same as jedi masters is imo wrong. |
Again, how is a Dodge roll, followed by an ability to parry perhaps 5-6 shots more powerful than being able to parry an unlimited amount of shots at real high to hit scores?? |
Cause you are getting 2 chances to avoid being hit, not just one that everyone else gets..
| Quote: | | Huh? A character with Lightsaber 6D and Sense 4D has a 8D parrying roll by the RAW. While not a beginner character, its also not a knight or master but an achievable level for most PCs. I guess you can parry quite a bit with those dice by the RAW, my rule wont make this character any more powerful. A parrying roll of 24 (Dodging makes the MAP increase by one) would mean that the Jedi could parry 5 shots if the base difficulty was Easy. Actually, doing the numbers I found that most Jedis would not benefit from Dodging with a -3D MAP penalty. |
That is true, 6d/4d is not out of line for most pcs. Which is why i DO feel there needs to be a change to the parry rules, that the more shots you have to parry the harder it is.. I just feel adding a dodge before hand makes it EASIER to parry, not harder as you are already taking out a number of shots that might have hit.
What i would prefer is rather than a flat -3/-4/-2 (Etc), it be a flat -1d to the parry roll of the jedi, say per 2 shots he needs to parry.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Quote: | | Again, how is a Dodge roll, followed by an ability to parry perhaps 5-6 shots more powerful than being able to parry an unlimited amount of shots at real high to hit scores?? |
Cause you are getting 2 chances to avoid being hit, not just one that everyone else gets.. |
You know garhkal, it would have been easier to understand what your criticism was and respond to it if you had made it clear from the beginning that you were not comparing the RAW to ZzaphodD's proposed house rule, but instead were comparing some other unspecified house rule that penalized parrying per shot (unlike the RAW) to ZzaphodD's proposed house rule. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bren wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Quote: | | Again, how is a Dodge roll, followed by an ability to parry perhaps 5-6 shots more powerful than being able to parry an unlimited amount of shots at real high to hit scores?? |
Cause you are getting 2 chances to avoid being hit, not just one that everyone else gets.. |
You know garhkal, it would have been easier to understand what your criticism was and respond to it if you had made it clear from the beginning that you were not comparing the RAW to ZzaphodD's proposed house rule, but instead were comparing some other unspecified house rule that penalized parrying per shot (unlike the RAW) to ZzaphodD's proposed house rule. |
Am I missing something here? What is the house rule garhkal is comparing it to?
By RAW it's 'dodge and parry', 'full parry or 'full dodge'? You are allowed to both dodge and parry but it seems a bit meaningless.
_________________
Random is who random does... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Random Numbers wrote: | | By RAW it's 'dodge and parry', 'full parry or 'full dodge'? You are allowed to both dodge and parry but it seems a bit meaningless. |
By RAW only one reaction skill, ie dodge or parry. Given RAWs überparry theres really no use to dodge if you are not targeted by 'unblockable' attacks though.
What some seems to miss with my rule is that as the number of attacks you can parry is severely limited compared to the RAW, I added the dodge and parry idea.
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ZzaphodD wrote: | | Random Numbers wrote: | | By RAW it's 'dodge and parry', 'full parry or 'full dodge'? You are allowed to both dodge and parry but it seems a bit meaningless. |
By RAW only one reaction skill, ie dodge or parry. Given RAWs überparry theres really no use to dodge if you are not targeted by 'unblockable' attacks though.
What some seems to miss with my rule is that as the number of attacks you can parry is severely limited compared to the RAW, I added the dodge and parry idea. |
So by RAW you can't parry a blaster bolt at the same time you are dodging a grenade?
_________________
Random is who random does... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Random Numbers wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | Random Numbers wrote: | | By RAW it's 'dodge and parry', 'full parry or 'full dodge'? You are allowed to both dodge and parry but it seems a bit meaningless. |
By RAW only one reaction skill, ie dodge or parry. Given RAWs überparry theres really no use to dodge if you are not targeted by 'unblockable' attacks though.
What some seems to miss with my rule is that as the number of attacks you can parry is severely limited compared to the RAW, I added the dodge and parry idea. |
So by RAW you can't parry a blaster bolt at the same time you are dodging a grenade? |
AFAIK no..
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Random Numbers
Commander
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 454
Location: Gladsheim
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Force moves in mysterious ways...
_________________
Random is who random does... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Random Numbers wrote: | | So by RAW you can't parry a blaster bolt at the same time you are dodging a grenade? |
As far as I know, yes. You can roll one of each of your defenses at an additional multiple action penalty. So, you can defend against a melee attack with your lightsaber, defend against a blaster bolt, and then dodge a grenade, if you have the dice to do it with. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Random Numbers wrote: | | Am I missing something here? What is the house rule garhkal is comparing it to? |
I don't know. I concluded he is comparing to some kind of house rule because what he says is not true of the RAW and he stated: | garhkal wrote: | | Which is why i DO feel there needs to be a change to the parry rules, that the more shots you have to parry the harder it is. |
| Random Numbers wrote: | | So by RAW you can't parry a blaster bolt at the same time you are dodging a grenade? |
That is not correct. You were right the first time. According to the RAE rules, a character can make both a reaction dodge and a reaction parry. See RAE p 89 top of the box on Reaction Skills - "you can use a reaction skill at any time." Therefore a character should be able to dodge the grenade and parry an attack.
The reaction dodge or parry applies to all attacks, no matter how many there are, that occur after the reaction. See RAE p 90 bottom of the box on Reaction Skills - "When using a reaction skill, the character makes the skill roll. (Don't forget to add penalties for multiple actions.) The roll is the attackers's new difficulty number. (This difficutly number is in effect for all attacks of that type made against the character for the rest of the round.)
Note that this is not the case for a full dodge or parry. See RAE p 90 the box on Full Reaction - "A character can make a "full reaction." A full reaction - dodge, melee parry, brawling parry, lightsaber, vehicle dodge or starship dodge - can be the only action the character makes in the entire round. The character rolls his dodge or other reaction skill and adds it to the difficultties of all attacks made against him that round."
Later in the example that follows we see that "Thannik can't melee parry because he made a full dodge." So a full dodge is different than a reaction dodge in two ways. (1) a full dodge adds to the difficulty and (2) no other action (defensive or otherwise) may be taken. Reaction dodge replaces the difficulty, but does not add to it and can be combined with other actions (attacking or defensive), but MAPs will apply for multiple actions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, so why Garkhals objection to my rule if its ok by the RAW? (I interpreted it as the idea was that I was expanding on defensive options availible for characters).
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14088
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Because from speaking to some of the developers at Gencon 99, that 'reaction parry, in the same round as a reaction dodge' was for doing 2 defenses.. one ranged (dodge), one close in (brawl/melee defense).. NOT for doing both against incoming blaster attacks.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Because from speaking to some of the developers at Gencon 99, that 'reaction parry, in the same round as a reaction dodge' was for doing 2 defenses.. one ranged (dodge), one close in (brawl/melee defense).. NOT for doing both against incoming blaster attacks. |
Well, in this case theres no melee parry involved so...
_________________
My Biggest Beard Retard award goes to: The Admiral of course.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Because from speaking to some of the developers at Gencon 99, that 'reaction parry, in the same round as a reaction dodge' was for doing 2 defenses.. one ranged (dodge), one close in (brawl/melee defense).. NOT for doing both against incoming blaster attacks. |
Yet the rules clearly state that "you can use a reaction skill at any time" and that "the Jedi may use lightsaber combat to parry blaster bolts as a reaction skill" see Lightsaber Combat on p. 148. Some of the designers may not have wanted to allow 2 defenses, but the rules clearly imply that 2 defenses are allowed and nothing in the rules contradicts this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
