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Taking a swing at combat options for Force Users
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

STARSHIP COMBAT

You are able to use the Force to augment your piloting skills. This power may be used with space transports, starfighters and repulsorlift vehicles.

Required Powers: Combat Sense, Concentration, Danger Sense
Effect:

This power has three effects.

You can use the Force to make attack rolls with your craft's weapons that exceed the targeting capabilities of your targeting computer. If you take only a single action (an attack with your craft's weapons; you may not use reaction skills), you may add your control dice to your attack roll instead of using the ship's fire control bonus.

You may re-roll some of your dice when making a piloting roll to navigate dangerous terrain. As long as you (the pilot) make take no other actions in the same round (your crew can fire weapons or use shields if available), you may re-roll a number of your dice equal to the number of dice you have in control. For example, Ret Starslicer has 4D+2 in control and 6D+1 in starfighter piloting. When navigating the asteroid field, he rolls 6D+1 and may re-roll any 4 or the dice, provided he takes no other actions (reactions are allowed as normal).

When in combat, you may use your ability to sense the Force to read the chain of events that is unfolding in battle. When making opposed pilot checks, or when using a starship (or speeder) dodge, add a bonus to your roll equal to +1 for every die you have in sense. For example, Ret has 7D+1 in sense, so he would add +7 to his starfighter piloting skill for a total of 6D+8.


Last edited by Naaman on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one is very cool, and seems very well-fitting to Force abilities. 8)

Is it too much when a Jedi usese Concentration, though?
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You raise a good issue with concentration. Reading the second option, it would be more effective to use concentration instead. So, lets add that the pilot may use reaction skills in addition to navigating the treacherous terrain.

Okay, edited the post to account for the new change.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to write up the 7 forms as individual Force powers, but I ran into the little problem of a character gaining 1 pip in a Force skill achieving instant mastery of any given form (imagine if Yoda or Qui Gon raised his control or sense after a good adventure, and chose Vapaad as his new power).

So, instead of writing individual Force powers for each form, I'm going to write ways in which the Force can be used to augment the 7 forms. Essentially, each of the forms allows you to apply a familiar Force power in new and unconventional ways. Learning one of these techniques costs 5 character points, or, it can be learned in place of a new Force power when raising the appropriate Force skill.

Essentially, a character who learns to use all of the techniques for his particular form could be considered a "master" of that form.

SHII-CHO
Emptiness
You are able to use your mental focus and inner peace to more effectively overcome your opponents in battle. You may give up some of your damage dice in order to gain additional benefits. At the start of your turn, choose a number of dice to give up. Once this choice is made, it's effects last for the entire battle. You may make a difficult control roll in order to change the effects, if you wish. You may also choose to apply multiple effects, by applying a cumulative penalty to your damage.

Clarity: Decrease your lightsaber damage by 1D. If you are benefiting from the emptiness power, you may re-roll a single die each time your roll. You may re-roll a die on an attack, parry, damage, sense (to deflect blasters), or control (to redirect blasters). If you use this application of emptiness, it's benefit expires at the end of combat, or after it's normal duration, whichever comes first.

Harmony: Decrease your lightsaber damage by 2D. If you are benefiting from the emptiness power, you may make a control roll at the beginning of your turn. Your roll determines the effects. If successful, you may treat a number of dice as having rolled a 6. This ability cannot be used to make the wild die explode, but it can be used on the wild die (if the wild die already exploded, you may apply it to the additional result, but still it stops exploding).

Results:
Moderate: 1D per round.
Difficult: 2D per round.
Very Difficult: 3D per round.
Heroic: 4D per round.

Note that this benefit lasts only for the current turn. You may apply the effect to any number of dice (up to the amount based on your control result) in the round, even boosting multiple dice on the same roll, if you wish.

Balance: Decrease your lightsaber damage by 3D. If you are benefiting from the emptiness power, whenever you trade your damage dice for a bonus on attack and parry rolls, you also increase your emptiness bonus by the same amount (for example, if you trade 3D of damage to gain a +3 to attack and parry rolls, the bonus provided by emptiness to your Force skills increases to +9).
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAKASHI

Receptive Telepathy
You can use the Force to gain insight into your opponent's feelings and intentions. Using this information, you can dismantle his strategy, foiling his strengths and exploiting his weaknesses and defeat him in combat. You may give up some of your damage dice in order to gain additional benefits. At the start of your turn, choose a number of dice to give up. Once this choice is made, it's effects last for the entire battle. You may make a difficult control roll in order to change the effects, if you wish. You may also choose to apply multiple effects, by applying a cumulative penalty to your damage.

Insight: Decrease your lightsaber damage by 1D. You may roll sense instead of initiative. Choose a target and sense roll (as per the receptive telepathy power, but NOT modified by relationship) against him. For every 5 points by which you beat his roll, you gain a +1 bonus on parry rolls against that opponent. You may give up an additional die of damage in order to include another opponent, up to the number of dice you have in control.

Empathic Probe: Decrease you lightsaber damage by 2D. You may establish a telepathic link with your target (requires a moderate sense roll, modified by relationship and proximity), giving you constant awareness of his mental state throughout the battle. You may use this link to taunt your opponent, triggering his hubris and causing him to make a mistake. The GM determines what the hubris is. Attempting to trigger a different hubris grants your opponent a +10 bonus to his willpower roll to resist the effects. Instead of attacking with your lightsaber, make a con roll, and choose an effect:

Anger: Your opponent gains a +5 bonus on all attack and damage rolls and a -5 penalty to all parry rolls.

Quote:
You have anger; you have hate! But you don't use them!


Fear: Your opponent suffers a -5 penalty on all parry rolls, unless he chooses to make a full parry, in which case he receives an (additional) +5 bonus.

Quote:
I sense much fear in you, boy!


Doubt: Your opponent receives a -5 penalty on all attack rolls, and a +5 bonus on all parry rolls.

Quote:
You disappoint me, Kenobi. Qui-Gon always spoke so highly of you. Surely you can do better


Arrogance: Your opponent gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls, and a -2 penalty on parry rolls.

Quote:
I thought you would have learned your lesson by now.


Prescient Riposte: Reduce your lightsaber damage by 4D. If you use a full reaction to parry with your lightsaber, and your opponent misses by at least 10, you may immediately make an attack against him. You gain a bonus on this attack equal to +1 for every 2D you have in sense.


Last edited by Naaman on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SORESU

Danger Sense: You use the Force to increase your awareness and foil attacks against you with supernatural precognition. You may give up some of your damage dice in order to gain additional benefits. At the start of your turn, choose a number of dice to give up. Once this choice is made, it's effects last for the entire battle. You may make a difficult control roll in order to change the effects, if you wish. You may also choose to apply multiple effects, by applying a cumulative penalty to your damage.

Battlemind: Reduce your lightsaber damage by 2D. When rolling initiative, add a bonus to your Perception roll equal to +1 for each die you have in sense.

Combat Focus: Reduce your lightsaber damage by 1D. This ability gives you the option to boost your reflexes further by trading your remaining damage dice for a bonus on sense rolls to deflect blasters. Each additional die of damage you give up grants you a +1D bonus to your sense roll to deflect blasters.

For example, Gable Carras has 6D+1 in control and 8D in sense. His lightsaber damage is 11D+1. He decides to give up 1D of his bonus (control) dice in order to activate this power for the duration of battle. This means he can only add 5D+1 to damage, for a total of 10D+1. Of the 5D+1, he can now use any of those dice to add 1D to sense when deflecting blasters instead of to control when rolling damage. He may allocate these dice on a turn by turn basis.

Prescient Parry: Reduce your lightsaber damage by 3D. You may add a bonus to your parry rolls equal to +1 for each die you have in sense.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ATARU

Enhance Attribute: You are able to use the Force to boost your strength, speed, and agility to increase the effectiveness of your attacks. You may give up some of your damage dice in order to gain additional benefits. At the start of your turn, choose a number of dice to give up. Once this choice is made, it's effects last for the entire battle. You may make a difficult control roll in order to change the effects, if you wish. You may also choose to apply multiple effects, by applying a cumulative penalty to your damage.

Enhanced Prowess: Reduce your lightsaber damage by 2D. If you activate the enhance attribute power, for each D you would have gained, you instead gain +1 pip. However, the bonus lasts for the duration of combat and it applies to both your Dexterity and your Strength.

Acrobatic Combatant:Reduce your lightsaber damage by 1D. If you activate enhance attribute and apply it to your Strength (or when using enhanced prowess, above), you may use your acrobatics skill in place of certain reaction skills. The skills you may replace are melee parry, dodge, and brawling parry. You may also roll acrobatics in place of lightsaber when parrying with your lightsaber, if you wish.

Overwhelming Assault: Reduce your lightsaber damage by 4D. If you are benefiting from the enhance attribute power (either the normal version or enhanced prowess, above), you may declare as your only action for the round a single attack (you may use reactions normally). If your target does not (or cannot) use a full reaction to defend himself, he must immediately choose to take either a -5 penalty to his parry total or lose his next turn (if he chooses to give up his next turn, he may defend himself normally). If the opponent successfully defends against this attack (either with a full reaction or his penalized parry roll), there is no additional effect.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, the forms should be Advanced skills.. Not just base skills.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
To me, the forms should be Advanced skills.. Not just base skills.


I agree. In our house rules, they are (A) and it's working pretty well.
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
STARSHIP COMBAT

[...]


I like it! Of course, I'll modify this to my roll&keep rules, so all bonuses will be not-kept dice. Also, you didn't note activation-related stuff - you think it should be "always on"?

I'd make it two separate powers:
One control-based for shooting (covering first effect), control difficulty Easy (Moderate if under fire).
Second power sense-based, may be kept "up" or even used as reaction, for piloting/dodging (covering other two effects), with difficulty Moderate.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
To me, the forms should be Advanced skills.. Not just base skills.


I have written advanced skill versions of the 7 forms (you might be able to dig them up here on the forums). And I plan on taking a shot a refreshing that idea later on.

What I was going for here was an alternative prospective on the 7 forms from the point of view that while every Jedi practices one form or another, not all of them are considered "masters" of that form. And the "lightsaber" skill, in my mind, is not sufficient to represent enough "flavor" or individuality for my taste.

So, while Yoda is regarded as "the" form 4 "master," Qui-Gon is not, yet, we would all agree that he has a remarkably high lightsaber skill (I would personally place him in the 10D-11D range). Using base skills allows for characters to practice a form, yet be unremarkable in it's execution.

The other problem I have with combat skills being advanced is that I have yet to come up with a good enough (for me) version of such a skill that is functional as a stand alone skill (such as medicine, for example). Advanced skills just become "stacker" skills. And that requires them to have a "per D" element to their use, or else you might as well just spend 2 CP to get the advanced skill, and only raise it until it's more expensive than the base skill... then you'd switch back. That just feels wrong to me.

As it's turning out, I rather like the base skill versions, and feel like they more fluidly represent the 7 forms from a character concept perspective, especially when the characters "personality" can come through in their fighting style.

Anyway, advanced skill versions will be forthcoming eventually.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tupteq wrote:
Naaman wrote:
STARSHIP COMBAT

[...]


I like it! Of course, I'll modify this to my roll&keep rules, so all bonuses will be not-kept dice. Also, you didn't note activation-related stuff - you think it should be "always on"?

I'd make it two separate powers:
One control-based for shooting (covering first effect), control difficulty Easy (Moderate if under fire).
Second power sense-based, may be kept "up" or even used as reaction, for piloting/dodging (covering other two effects), with difficulty Moderate.


I don't necessarily think it should be "always on," but I wasn't sure about the activation difficulties. Also, I don't like when a skill is "hampered" by effects that are supposed to help it (LSC as written, for example, produces a negative net effect for a beginner). So, I would tend to dictate that the use of the power does not, in any way, impose a MAP on the skills directly related to it (your opinion, of course, could be the opposite).

Anyway, I would say it's definitely in the easy-moderate category. Though, since the risk of being stunned or wounded (and thereby being forced to drop the power) is almost non-existent, it probably doesn't really matter what the activation difficulty is, assuming the character uses it every time he fires up his craft (gotta stay in practice, right?).

As for it being two separate powers, I wound up (almost) treating my house rule'd LSC that way. You'll note that the second and third effect for starship combat actually depends upon control and sense respectively. Though, if you think it's more appropriate to base both of them on sense, I can certainly see it that way as well.

Looking forward to some feedback and play test results!
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Tupteq
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Also, I don't like when a skill is "hampered" by effects that are supposed to help it (LSC as written, for example, produces a negative net effect for a beginner). So, I would tend to dictate that the use of the power does not, in any way, impose a MAP on the skills directly related to it (your opinion, of course, could be the opposite).


Indeed, my opinion is opposite Smile
I like this effect, when Force user needs to sacrifice something (MAP to all actions) to achieve an effect. In case of Starship Combat powers MAP is only -1D, so having control/sense at 1D+1 would provide a bonus. Of course, unless you have a high Fire Control (like 3D), then you need to have control at least 4D+1.

Naaman wrote:
Anyway, I would say it's definitely in the easy-moderate category. Though, since the risk of being stunned or wounded (and thereby being forced to drop the power) is almost non-existent, it probably doesn't really matter what the activation difficulty is, assuming the character uses it every time he fires up his craft (gotta stay in practice, right?).


I don't like idea of using these powers all the time. I'd probably put some restrictions on them, to make them kept for special occasions. How about this:
Control-based shooting can't be kept "up" and each subsequent use is at cumulative +5 to difficulty due to extreme concentration required. Penalties wear-off at rate -5/round.
Sense-based piloting's difficulty may depend on size of ship (Easy: airspeeder, Moderate: starfighter, Difficult: freighter) and may cause sensory overloading after battle (each minute of use causes 1 hour of reduced PER by -1D).

This may look very limiting, but IMO, if it could be used all the time, then it would be very powerful and it would make a great pilot from each Jedi (or perfect gunner in turret in case of control replacing Fire Control).

Naaman wrote:
As for it being two separate powers, I wound up (almost) treating my house rule'd LSC that way. You'll note that the second and third effect for starship combat actually depends upon control and sense respectively. Though, if you think it's more appropriate to base both of them on sense, I can certainly see it that way as well.


Yes, I think second and third effect are somehow similar (they are both boosting piloting), so I joined them together as a sense power.


I just hit on an idea of different approach - I'm writing it down while it's still fresh in my mind:

Force Fire Control (FFC)
Control Difficulty: Easy, +10 for next use (modifier wears off by -5 at the beginning of round)
You may precede shooting action by FFC roll. This incurs MAP, if you succeed, you may use your (full) control instead of weapon Fire Control.

Example: control 4D+1, starship gunnery 3D, Fire Control 2D. Using FFC and shoot requires two actions, so control roll is at -1D and shooting too, but final roll, in case of successful use is 3D+4D+1-1D=6D+1 instead of 3D+2D=5D. If character wanted to shoot twice with FFC help, then all actions would be at -3D (four actions).

Force Piloting (FP)
Sense Difficulty: Easy (speeder), Moderate (sterfighter), Difficult (freighter)
You may precede piloting action (move, maneuver, dodge) by FP roll. This incurs MAP and may be used as a reaction. If succeed, full sense is added to piloting roll.

Example: sense 3D+2, piloting 4D, maneuverability 1D. Using FP in reaction to attack would cause -1D penalty to sense roll and -1D to further piloting roll, but in effect player would roll: 4D+3D+2+1D-1D=7D+2 instead of 4D+1D=5D.

I'm not sure if I like it, but it looks quite simple and not too over-powered.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I don't want any Jedi (or just plain Force user) to be uber-awesome at every single task. The way we compensate for this, though is to slow down the rate at which Force powers are gained.

We allow 1 new Force power at each whole D. So instead of having all Force skills at 2D and knowing 18 Force powers, a character would only know 6 Force powers.

I also added a bunch of powers to all three Force skills (especially alter), in order to provide variety and allow different characters to be much different from each other based on Force powers selected.

So a character who wants to be great at melee combat won't be able to "afford" to take starship combat (especially if we break it up into multiple powers).

Anyway, I use so many house rules that it's almost hard to call it D6 Star Wars anymore... except that we still use D6s. So some of my posts may seem to not fit quite properly if the rest of the rules set is not taken into consideration.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I was going to say something similar to Tupteq, but it sounds like your modified house rules already have this considered.

My concern would be in making the Jedi better pilots than the hotshot pilots, but making it so each Jedi has to focus on the disciplines and particular Force skills does seem to take that into consideration (so that every Jedi isn't just a super hero in every way).
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