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Star Wars Roleplaying Game Network
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Commander Cody
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Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 375
Location: Kamino

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:17 pm    Post subject: Star Wars Roleplaying Game Network Reply with quote

When Gry and I released our sourcebook for Attack of the Clones, A fellow pit member posted a message at the Star War roleplaying Game Network saying that our sourcebook had been made and to come check it out. While most of the comments were positive the one I would like to point out is the one that MORIDIN posted.

"I'd like to take a moment to point out that SWRPGNetwork and its staff do not endorse Rancorpit.com in any way. They allow copyrighted West End Games PDFs to be posted on their forums, and as a writer I find that abhorrent. If you choose to visit Rancorpit.com on your own, that is your business. I do not support such a site, as copyright infringement is still a very serious matter."

Just thought I should point this out .

Thanks
Cody
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Gry Sarth
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Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5308
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, some very neat and encouraging comments over there! Always good to read this kind of thing about something you've labored on.

And as for Morodin's post, well, everyone's entitled to his opinion. I can understand why he says somethin like "as a writer I find that abhorrent", but we've also discussed here to a great extent why this practice of ours is really hurting no one, and is actually a boost to the roleplaying game. I know I would never have made a single fan-book it it weren't for these pdfs.......
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Commander Cody
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you 100%, I was just a little put out that. When all that came out of his mouth was negativity. So many positive things have come from this site. I know I was about finished with the Star Wars RPG until I stumbled across this site. So when I read that little commient I took it personal.

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Cody
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Tejma_Muhog
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were Moridin I would find it MORE abhorrent that WOTC isn't putting his prodigious talents to their fullest use by making more RPG books.
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this guy is more than welcome to not support our site. Obviously he doesn't understand the concept of fully researching a topic before offering one's opinion on it. This is made evident by the fact that he couldn't have read through the vast discussions we've had about copyright infringement- how we've agonized over that very issue, and the consensus that has been reached and why.

Note how he also studiously avoids noting that while there MAY be "questionable" material available on the site, there's also a HOST of fan-made material available that is DEFINITELY worth the look, and infinitely helpful to the serious roleplayer.

So buck up, fellow brothers and sisters of the Rancor Pit! While this may sound dangerously close to flaming the poor, unwitting soul, we must simply allow him to remain in his oblivious self-denial. Simply the fact that he's made the comments he has and cited the Rancor Pit by name means that we're going to have even more people checking us out. He's come out and said that we have available WEG books in PDF format. What D6er wouldn't jump at the chance to lay hands on them? I say we simply raise our glasses high, thank the gentleman for giving us some free publicity, and welcome any who venture into our realm! Wink
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Boomer
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Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention the fact that since WEG no longer supports the Star Wars RPG, and WotC has nothing to do with the D6 system anymore, we are not infringing on a single copyright here.

He is making us out to be criminals. For what purpose? He is wrong, and if he truly beleives himself to be right, he should get a lawyer. His case will fail and than the owner of Rancorpit can counter-sue for damages.
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Gry Sarth
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Joined: 25 May 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't know about that. In our copyright discussions here, the point was raised that WEG does hold the copyright for those books. Sure, they can't print them and sell them anymore, but they still hold the rights. Meaning nobody else can either. If we were selling these books, thus making a profit out of their work, then we would surely be breaking some laws. As it is, I think it's still an infringement of copyright, but one that nobody cares about, since no one is loosing or gaining anything.
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hisham
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Joined: 06 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gry Sarth wrote:
As it is, I think it's still an infringement of copyright, but one that nobody cares about, since no one is loosing or gaining anything.
Technically it is still an infringement of copyright, because it's not WEG that'll bother to sue if it comes to it, but LFL itself because LFL holds the copyright, not WEG. WEG was only the license holder.

WEG might raise hell if what we do will siphon revenue away from them. But I don't think they'll be bothered since the license is no longer in their hands.

WOTC? It wouldn't make sense for them to complain because it's not their system, but they could on grounds of roleplaying write-ups. For instance if they might argue that no one would want to purchase the UAA if they have the GG12. They could just use the write up in GG12 and convert the stats to d20.

However, I believe it would most probably be LFL that would be the one to attack Rancorpit simply because Star Wars is their copyright and trademark. Yes, it would be highly unlikely because of obsolete game system yadda yadda, but they would be within their rights to sue.

Ultimately, I wont tell them if you wont. Wink
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You got that right, brother! Wink
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Boomer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But why would LFL sue? We are not actually using their license a way that violates copyright law.

Truly, we just arn't actually breaking the definition of it, because we are the customers. We are benifiting off of what they chose to release. And if they don't like it they can give me back my money for all the Star Wars figures and games I bought over the years, and I will gladly burn all the drawings and writings I made as well as quit playing their game, if they are going to be that petty and selfish about their license as to not let their own customers use the product as they see fit.

We are not competition stealing the product, we are a customer that actually bought the damn product, and it isn't our fault they don't make it anymore.
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Grimace
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Joined: 11 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LFL would sue because it's their prerogative to do so as the legal copyright holder of the Star Wars license. Whether you think it petty and selfish or not, they have the legal right to do so under the rules of the law.

If LFL wanted to sit on the copyright and let the WEG game material rot away to dust, they could do so. You don't have to like it, but that's how it works.

And, for the record, distributing copyrighted material, even for free, is against copyright law. Fair use only applies to a limited degree, and what goes on here would not fall into that category. Face it, the file sharing here is flat out, bald faced illegal. It works the same way as the free music downloading that Napster used to do that sunk it into such hot water. (followed by at least two other music file sharing programs)

This is why I always say "Don't rock the boat". There have been people that have tried to contact WEG and WOTC and see if it was okay to post the files. Heavens no it's not okay, that's why I suggested keeping this nice and low profile. Tell your friends, but don't tell everyone, otherwise you could very well see this place (and maybe many of us) in hot water.

Just be thankful for now that we've got people willing to share. 8)
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Boomer
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many Lawyers and Judges who disagree with the RIAA about Napster having done anything illegal, as well as many other file sharing companies.

The truth is, no, this does not actually violate a single damn written law. It just doesn't. We give them enough money as it is and they arn't really losing a single penny to us or because of us in any way, shape, or form.

And enough of of this "but they could argue" and "they could say". s***! They can say whatever they like, but what is the truth? The truth is they don't have a case. Period. Now has that stopped LFL from at least trying to sue in the past? No, they sue whoever, whenever, they don;t feel they need a case to begin a lawsuit.

Do they win? Hardly ever. And they'd lose this one too. LFL has a bad reputation in court, and they have been barred from suing anyone with the Galactica license despite a couple of recent blatant copyright violations, due to LFL bringing a frivolous lawsuit against the first series.
Thank's to LFL trying to sue Galactica "just because", the new series has now ripped off the Dreadnaught and the SuperBattleDroid. And LFL has their hands tied because THEY WERE WRONG.

LFL has lost credibility in court. So let them argue. Just get a lawyer decent enough to not cave into intimidation tactics and Rancorpit can counter-sue to pay for an outrageously priced lawyer.
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Robert
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As i already told in the pdf exchange thread, WEG answer to my mail was we should ask Lucasarts for allowance. Providing those pdfs is shady, but neither obviously illegal nor legal. Whether itīs moral or cultural the right thing is a different matter and sadly doesnīt necessarily prevent sanctions or sues. I am happy RancorPit is such a great community and gives the opportunity to exchange knowledge about StarWarsD6.

By the way: Bad publicity is publicity.
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Jedi Skyler
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm not arguing for the legality or illegality of what is done here, I WILL say that WEG was most likely simply covering their behinds legally. I'm sure that everyone down there is simply overjoyed that so many people are STILL interested in their system and swear by it, let alone wish to propagate it.

And while they might still get those one to three cent checks every time some comic book store manages to sell an old WEG SW D6 book they had hiding in the back room, they really don't profit anymore from the books. So, speaking as a fellow artist/writer, if I were in that situation (especially as it exists for WEG) I'd be tickled pink to have people still clamoring for my work- even if I couldn't profit from it. Even though in this case it's more the subject matter and rules system than it is the work of individual artists, the sentiment remains the same.
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Commander Cody
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off I want to offically appologize for starting this debate in the first place. The legality of this issue wasnt really what I was angry about. Second I get tired of people like Moridin, who don't help the communiy, and I don't mean with stats and books, because we all know who he is, but with positive encouragement, but he didnt do that, he wrote that political load of crap which served absolutly no purpose. So for someone to make that post in a topic that has absolutly nothing to do with file sharing is absurd. What good did his post serve, what point did it make, because the topics title was Attack of the Clones Sourcebook and then to go a step further not one single post mentioned "hey man you download books at that site". Once again I am sorry for adding fuel to this fire, it was not intended.

Thanks
Cody
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