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Star Wars Roleplaying Game Network
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Gry Sarth
Jedi


Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5308
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a question of procedure, but I'm confident we can overcome it.
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masque
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we just post a new thread in the Tools section? I figure we can structure it like the old pdf thread, with the understanding that it's for fan made sourcebooks only. As long as there's no copyrighted material, it should be fine. Does this sound good enough?
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Loc Taal
Grand Master (Admin Emeritus)


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 805
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, that sounds fine. Maybe just make the title of the thread something related to "fan-made", so it's blatantly obvious what it's for.
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masque
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Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Done. Time for bed, I'll upload stuff tomorrow.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Moff


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Loc, for being willing to continue to allow the fan-made items to be posted and shared. While I personally have not had problems with past practice, specifically for the reasons Gry has mentioned, I do admit that I'm breathing a bit easier knowing that the site can't be shut down for illegality. The Rancor Pit is a tremendous resource for anyone involved in SW D6. And thanks for what you've allowed to happen thus far. You've made it possible for a lot of people new to SW D6 to get really involved and very well-grounded in their gaming and resources. I know that's what this site is all about, and you've been making it happen. No matter what complaints you get about this or that not being allowed, you deserve at the very least thanks for what has transpired before.

Moridin, I respect your opinions and actions, especially taken from a CYA context. Having been a soldier I understand those ALL too well... Wink I think it's a good thing that you popped on here and at least explained where you were coming from. Personally, I have to admit that I've not really been over at your site, except perhaps once or twice, very briefly. I therefore have only been privy to what's been said over here, not over there. Thanks for taking the time to make yourself clear.

And to the rest of us: Now that we've had the opportunity to vent our spleens and get our opinions out there, I'd strongly suggest we get down to the business of utilizing this site for its intended purpose- namely, purporting the legendary SW D6 system into a continued, thriving existence. This will be done by continuing as we have been: supporting our fellow RPGers, utilizing and sharing any fan-made items that are posted, and spreading the word about this wonderful site.

Game on!
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beaumont sebos
Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad to say that once again... I feel the love.

LONG LIVE THE RANCOR PIT!!!
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"Saving the multiverse, one Gamorrean Ale at a time."
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wolfe
Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 91
Location: earth-need a vacation

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

folks do you have any idea what it is to have intellectual property?
obviously not with the care free attitude you've displayed..
some of us do though..

it doesn't matter if its still on the shelves or not.
It does belong to somebody..

some of the people I know said we should take the names off your fan made pdfs and put our names there instead..

you folks by your own reasoning have no right to b**** or complain as "no money is involved"
so no harm done ..
well thats wrong!!

thats not the freaking point now is it..
the point is the work is yours, do you want credit for it?
would you like to be remembered for it?

if you don't protect it, than you don't deserve it because by god you WILL loose it if you don't.

you want to see a real life RPG developer in dire straights..
somebody who is fighting for HIS intellectual property?
look at this..
http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=57048

he's pleading for help to keep what is his, HIS..
I don't care if you like his system or not..
he's just somebody trying to keep what he made, his..

I seriously applaud Loc Taal in stopping it from happening on his site, nothing good was going to happen with the open and blatent disreguard you folks displayed towards the file sharing.

and since you folks uploaded files to that lovely public file service don't think they don't have you archived, it's part of thier CYA (cover your @$$).
so you are already on record.(a word of caution).

and before you go there don't think I had anything to do with Loc Taals killing that thread, if I wanted too this site would have been gone, papers served, and folks here in more trouble than they wanted..

I only pointed this out as i refuse to let Moridin take the heat for something i pointed out to him..

don't turn this into a his site versus yours.. you have an issue blame me..

you folks that insist file sharing isn't a problem than don't whine when you get carjacked/house burglerized or your wife/daughter gets raped and nobody seems to care.

and don't think theres a difference if you don't have a clue about IP.
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Gry Sarth
Jedi


Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5308
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, isn't that special...

Doesn't really look like it's us trying to start a war around here... This issue had already been laid to rest, all parts satisfied and moving on with their lives. But you just have to stomp in like you hold a copyright on truth and what's right and wrong.

Comparing the file-sharing of an out-of-print book to someone raping my daughter is just flat out sick and twisted. I guess only really a Sith deals in absolutes....

And the thing you seem to be missing, is that nobody at any point tried to claim ownership or took credit for these books. We never pretended they were our creation, we only passed them along. When I write a book, all I really want is to see it spread throughout the community, no matter who's handing them around.

What is the difference between a shop selling the book and us sharing it? Money. That's the only difference. Money changing hands. Well, this books are not for sale anymore, shops aren't selling them, money is not changing hands. And does this file-sharing affects this situation? No. Shops continue not selling them, money continues not changing hands. Nobody is affected, except for the guys who now can enjoy a good book and value the author's work.

Sorry to give this guy a reply, I'm not advocating the return of PDF-Sharing around here, I just wanted to defend myself when accused of doing something equal to raping your daughter.
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wolfe
Lieutenant
Lieutenant


Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 91
Location: earth-need a vacation

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know your response is exactly the response my wife and niece said to expect..

"kids wouldn't understand"

you see our niece was..
shes a gamer too..

so i had been away for awhile, i'm a tad late on the subject..


but then there's been flame wars over more trivial things..

i didn't expect the total outcry against him

there's no war started..
that's why i posted this..
don't want any war, i just wanted the blame placed where it should be..
i caused it..

blame me..

I know full well were moridins problem was walking that thin line it was posted quite a few times..

but you are totaly and seriously are not understanding the concept of intellectual property and the concept of loosing it..

I have IP to protect and understand fully what it is to protect and what others can and will loose trying to infringe against it..

your only seeing $$ as the the only loss you just don't understand the laws or the reasons behind it..

you just don't understand it..
moridin does and im pretty sure Loc Taal has an understanding of it which is why im guesssing he was seriously debating it..


serioulsy i do think i'll let some of the guys actually change some of the fan pdfs created by some of you..
all work done by you actually credited by somebody else..

nobody here credited what so ever, why? you don't deserve it..


and after that's run its course through the file sharing system for some time lets see how you feel then.
you can't complain , no money was transacted..
even though some of you did all the work for YOUR fan base..
why shouldn't somebody else take the credit then? you have no obvious problems with it..

just place the blame to the right spot is all I'm blatantly saying.
if nothing more is said on it than so be it..
just wanted to be placed on record and placed on the floor for it..

if folks can remotely understand this position..

nobody is stomping no place, just a late comer placing the blame where it should be truly placed nothing more or less.

trust me if i wanted to do more you would well an truely know it..

i just want the blame placed on me..
sorry if being so late makes your day so rough..
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Gry Sarth
Jedi


Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5308
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you're just going to ignore everything I say when writing an answer, then I might as well do the same. I thought you were seeking a discussion, but I won't honor you with an argument.

Have a nice life. Hope never to cross ways with you again.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Moff


Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here here, Gry!

My my, wolfe's post there certainly seems VERY much like he's flaming the entire Rancor Pit community. (Well, MOST of it, anyway).

Gry is correct. My wife and children are not my intellectual property, genius. They're my FAMILY. If you equate file sharing with rape, then you've obviously not been raised by anyone who could be considered parents by ANY definition.

I wouldn't advise you trying to pull any of that kind of stuff on MY family. I have many creative methods for dealing with such conscienceless imbeciles. Twisted Evil
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Allst Beamem
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Memphis, TN USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I...um...well.

Well I so want to respond to wolfe's comments, but I just can't find the words to convay my fealings on the subject.

With that being said, I will say this...

Wolfe, I believe you are very pashunet about the subject of IP, and that is a good thing. Every one should have a pashun of some kind. But, I believe that this is clouding your perception a bit.

You seem to think that with the sharing of this IP we are some how trying to claim it as our own. Or at least that "seems" to be what you are saying using words like "rape".

Agin like I have said before in this thread this is all a moot point becouse it is no loger allowed on this sight. And like Gry said earlyer we had laid this to rest and are trying to move past this. So perhaps you should let us.
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masque
Captain
Captain


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 626
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all s*** anyway. Intellectual Property is not something holy, and the delusion that it is is a recent development. When the Constitution was written, copyright was limited the same way patents were, 7 years with a chance for ONE renewal. The idea is that ideas belong to the public domain, but that to encourage creativity, people would be allowed to profit exclusively from their work for a limited time. If they weren't able to exploit it in that amount of time, too bad. It went into the public domain, to be used as the basis for innovation and creativity for further people.

The idea that one can have ownership of an idea is plain absurdity. Of course, you've had people extending the duration of that exploitation period ever since, which is where the myth of intellectual property comes from.

If anyone is showing a lack of understanding, it's the MORON comparing rape with file-sharing. Listen asshole: If the company was still in business, we'd be buying the books. I STILL buy the books when I come across them used, even if I have them as a file. They're not the easiest to find, however, and I'm not going to let that prevent me from enjoying the game that I love, particularly when it HARMS NO ONE. No one is losing money, not being able to feed their kids because we were sharing files of a DEAD, UNSUPPORTED game.

Dick.
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)


Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4441

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really feel like we're picking at scabs here. We're not changing anyone's mind one way or the other, and we're only causing this discussion to fester and ooze.

What would be helpful and interesting discussion is anyone who has specific court decisions concerning particular copyright cases and legal commentary thereof.
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Allst Beamem
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Memphis, TN USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hay masque don't hold back man. Tell us how you really feal. Laughing
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