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T-65E2 X-Wing
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, i also equate it with a kedi who tries to block a bolt with his lightsaber. If he misses the parry, he has not enough time to react with a dodge. Same for this type of ship. The trainer has not enough time to react to make a ship dodge, if the trainee pilot's dodge misses.
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Gry Sarth
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know, there is something of a precedent for this sort of thing. When you're in driving school, your instructor at your side also has access to some of the car's controls (not sure if it's just the brakes). So if you loose control and is about to hit something, the instructor usually intervenes and brakes the car before it happens. I know it's not much of a dodge, but it's close.

So it's feasible that if the secondary pilot was focused on it, he could realize the primary pilot was messing up and intervene in the controls.

I would allow it with some added difficulty.
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Boomer
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Preventing a crash is one thing. Dodging an attack is another. The two do not actually equate.

When losing control of a vehicle, it could be no-where near actually crashing, and there can be plenty of time for the secondary operator to take control and prevent a crash.

When attemtpting to dodge an active attack, the attack is coming straight for you. If you fail to get out of the way, you are typically already hit. A secondary operator has no time to "re-dodge".
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Orgaloth
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the cockpit set up, meant to be like in the F-14? If so, what control does the co-pilot have there?
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Boomer
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Far as I know, in every double-cockpit set up in real life (at least in American and european machines) both seats have all the same controls. The diffrence is one pilot does one set of commands, the other takes control of the other.

So one can be firing all weapons, the other pilots, and they can switch jobs in an instant.
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Pel
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, most of the two-seat fighters have only one set of aircraft controls. The F-14 & F-4 have a front seat pilot with a rear seat weapons / radar officer. The back seater is just along for the ride as far as flying is concerned. I believe it is very much like the Y-wing in this respect.

Dual flight controls are prevalent in specific training versions of fighter aircraft. Also, they are usually found in aircraft with tandem seating arrangements. Notable exceptions to this rule are the S-3, A-6, and EA-6B, with only 1 pilot station each. I don't recall any SW fighters possessing tandem seating, but I'm sure it could be arranged in some sort of variant.
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Orgaloth
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason I asked was to get an idea as to what the tandem x-wing controls would be like.
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Pel
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ack. My terminology is mixed up. Apologies to all.

Clarification:

Tandem seating is when the personnel are arranged front-to-back. This is present in the Y-wing and the modified X-wing discussed here. Real-world examples include the F-14, F-4, and MiG-31. Unless the aircraft is a training version, then only one set of aircraft controls is present for the pilot in the front seat. The "back seater" can control radar, electronic warfare, and some navigation.

Side-by-side seating (while not found in SW fighters to my knowledge, but quite prevalent in shuttles, light freighters, and the like) typically sports dual piloting controls, one each for the pilot and co-pilot, just like on passenger planes.

*swerves madly back onto topic*
Ok, to answer your question about the layout of the F-14 cockpit, try these links:

Front seat Pilot
Rear seat RIO
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Firehawk0220
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are actually identical to training craft, except that they are being used in combat by this particular squad as they believe that having a backseat guy can be useful.
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Phalanks Balas
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pel wrote:
Ack. My terminology is mixed up. Apologies to all.

Side-by-side seating (while not found in SW fighters to my knowledge, but quite prevalent in shuttles, light freighters, and the like) typically sports dual piloting controls, one each for the pilot and co-pilot, just like on passenger planes.



What about F111 ?
let's look at these pictures:
http://www.ae.utexas.edu/~aiaa/oldsite/webgraphics/f111(2).jpg
http://homepages.tesco.net/~paul.crossley/foreign/f111-b.jpg.
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Phalanks Balas
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't allow a new dodge roll if the first is missed. Therefore Co-pilot can help the pilot to dodge if the player (co-pilot) has announced it at the begining of the round. I rule this "help" as a coordinated action. I allow this action only if the 2 pilots use to flight together. Remember that both dodge actions can counter-balance and allow enemy fire to reach more easily their target (pilot want to turn left and co-pilot want to turn right).
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Firehawk0220
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phalanks Balas wrote:
I don't allow a new dodge roll if the first is missed. Therefore Co-pilot can help the pilot to dodge if the player (co-pilot) has announced it at the begining of the round. I rule this "help" as a coordinated action. I allow this action only if the 2 pilots use to flight together. Remember that both dodge actions can counter-balance and allow enemy fire to reach more easily their target (pilot want to turn left and co-pilot want to turn right).


I hadn't given that any real thought. I like this and will institute it in future games. (In some form or another)
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Pel
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What about F111 ?


The F-111, while equipped with side by side seating, has only one set of flight controls for the left seat. The right seat is occupied by the WSO, or Weapon Systems Operator, who is along for the ride as far as piloting is concerned. This configuration is similar to that found in other attack aircraft like the A-6 and S-3.

All this information was gleaned from Federation of American Scientists US Aircraft website.

Each aircraft has its own characteristics which may or may not suit the individual needs of a spacecraft in a given campaign.
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