The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

Artillery.
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters -> Artillery. Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16 ... 19, 20, 21  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MrNexx
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 1232
Location: Houston

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
BTW, g, I did finally find an RPG that tracks power consumption: Renegade Legion Legionnaire. Way too crunchy for my tastes, but if that's what you're into...


The old Palladium Mechanoids books did, as well.
_________________
"I’m telling you, you’ll never have a deeper sleep than curled up in a Wookie’s lap."
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11581
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I've been putting some thought into an alternate method of handling area effects from heavy weapons. In particular, I'm thinking about the Battle of Hoth, where heavy artillery effects are shown to cause the characters to be jolted about, or have debris fall in their path, and so on and so forth. Converting all weapons to Blast Radius rules doesn't really cover those sorts of effects, yet they can play a crucial part in shaping a story.

What I'm picturing is an effects chart similar to the various Movement Failure Rules charts found in the RAW, witn effects ranging from a mild jolt that inflicts a -1D MAP for that round, all the way up to a direct hit either turning a character into giblets, if not completely vaporizing them.

In general terms, it would look something like so:
    1-3: Jolt. Concussion from the blast causes a slight stumble. -1D MAP for remainder of round.

    4-6: Knocked Down. Character is thrown to the ground and may take no further actions that round.

    7-10: Debris. Character is affected by debris or other damage caused by the blast, either with their path blocked, or with debris falling on them and entrapping them, etc.

    11-15: Wounded. Character catches shrapnel, shockwave, blast of fire or whatever, and is Wounded.

    16-20: Near Miss. Character was very close to ground zero, and is badly hurt and knocked flying.

    21+: Direct Hit. Character was just too close, and takes the full brunt of the blast. Reduced to scraps of meat and tissue, or completely vaporized.

I will be using the results from this list to add some variety, and I will also be making similar results for vehicles caught in artillery barrages.

Where I'm hitting a wall is figuring out how to apply the stats for existing weapons in such a way as to fit with this table. Obviously, a larger scale weapon will not be as accurate, but will inflict more damage to compensate. I think this idea shows more promise from a storytelling perspective than would just assigning a blast radius to every weapon Speeder-Scale and up, but I'm at a loss as to how to apply it.

Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dredwulf60
Captain
Captain


Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 538

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
So, I've been putting some thought into an alternate method of handling area effects from heavy weapons. In particular, I'm thinking about the Battle of Hoth, where heavy artillery effects are shown to cause the characters to be jolted about, or have debris fall in their path, and so on and so forth. Converting all weapons to Blast Radius rules doesn't really cover those sorts of effects, yet they can play a crucial part in shaping a story.

What I'm picturing is an effects chart similar to the various Movement Failure Rules charts found in the RAW, witn effects ranging from a mild jolt that inflicts a -1D MAP for that round, all the way up to a direct hit either turning a character into giblets, if not completely vaporizing them.

In general terms, it would look something like so:
    1-3: Jolt. Concussion from the blast causes a slight stumble. -1D MAP for remainder of round.

    4-6: Knocked Down. Character is thrown to the ground and may take no further actions that round.

    7-10: Debris. Character is affected by debris or other damage caused by the blast, either with their path blocked, or with debris falling on them and entrapping them, etc.

    11-15: Wounded. Character catches shrapnel, shockwave, blast of fire or whatever, and is Wounded.

    16-20: Near Miss. Character was very close to ground zero, and is badly hurt and knocked flying.

    21+: Direct Hit. Character was just too close, and takes the full brunt of the blast. Reduced to scraps of meat and tissue, or completely vaporized.

I will be using the results from this list to add some variety, and I will also be making similar results for vehicles caught in artillery barrages.

Where I'm hitting a wall is figuring out how to apply the stats for existing weapons in such a way as to fit with this table. Obviously, a larger scale weapon will not be as accurate, but will inflict more damage to compensate. I think this idea shows more promise from a storytelling perspective than would just assigning a blast radius to every weapon Speeder-Scale and up, but I'm at a loss as to how to apply it.

Thoughts?


I would use that effects table in the following fashion:

I would have the heavy weapon attack roll be along the lines of 'to whom it may concern' when deailing with infantry types.

The attack roll by the heavy weapon operator is against just the range-based difficulty. Success means the shot lands in the midst of the intended rabble...er targets.

I'd then invert your table so that the 'Direct hit' effect is at the 1-3 end and the 'Jolt' result is at the 21+ result.

I'd then have any and all infantry of characer-scale targets roll their dodge and apply it to the table for the effect.

This still leaves the question of how many targets might be in the area.

I'd say that's the GM call, but the ballpark rule of thumb I'd have as something like 5' across per damage die or fire control die of the weapon.

The main cool thing about this chart is that you can, as GM, have the BIG GUNS be fired directly at the PCs...have them get the sense that the weapons are POWERFUL and not worry (as much) about incinerating them outright.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11581
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with that is that there are two factors that affect the character's positioning on the chart: how accurate the artillery is, and how powerful it is. Both are represented in weapon stats (Damage and Fire Control), and both are subject to Scale, but in opposite ways. So a smaller scale weapon will be more likely to hit closer, but will have a smaller blast radius. In the case of Capital-Scale artillery, we're talking about adding 12D to both dice contests. I had suggested earlier in this topic that artillery should ignore Scale modifiers on both rolls, but I'm hesitant to completely abandon the degree of randomization both dice values add in.

So I'd like to find some way to have accuracy and damage offset eachother to determine the ultimate result on the chart...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dredwulf60
Captain
Captain


Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 538

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
The problem with that is that there are two factors that affect the character's positioning on the chart: how accurate the artillery is, and how powerful it is. Both are represented in weapon stats (Damage and Fire Control), and both are subject to Scale, but in opposite ways. So a smaller scale weapon will be more likely to hit closer, but will have a smaller blast radius. In the case of Capital-Scale artillery, we're talking about adding 12D to both dice contests. I had suggested earlier in this topic that artillery should ignore Scale modifiers on both rolls, but I'm hesitant to completely abandon the degree of randomization both dice values add in.

So I'd like to find some way to have accuracy and damage offset each other to determine the ultimate result on the chart...


Well, doesn't your chart kind of eliminate the need for a scale adjustment for a big thing shooting at a small thing if the small thing is a character; for chances of hitting it anyway.

The idea behind the RAW, AFAIK is that the small targets get the advantage because they are harder to hit. But that's when you are just going with the black and white of *hit* or *miss*.

As you have correctly deduced, when it comes to artillery-style weapons...it's not really about direct hits...it's usually about how *close* to a direct hit you can get.

And the bigger weapons...close is usually close enough.

I think your chart gives it some excellent gray area to work with; but only used against infantry targets.

When it's vehicle to vehicle I'd probably use scale system as written.


But I'm sure you'll come up with something that scratches your itch.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11581
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:
Well, doesn't your chart kind of eliminate the need for a scale adjustment for a big thing shooting at a small thing if the small thing is a character; for chances of hitting it anyway.

It does, but it also gets rid of the increased randomness involved in rolling more dice, and the randomness of artillery fire is something I want to preserve. For instance, using my scale system, a Walker-Scale cannon firing at a group of characters is going to have an additional 16D worth of variation thrown into the final result. Is that worth keeping, or is it better to throw it out entirely to keep it simple?

The idea behind the RAW, AFAIK is that the small targets get the advantage because they are harder to hit. But that's when you are just going with the black and white of *hit* or *miss*.

Quote:
I think your chart gives it some excellent gray area to work with; but only used against infantry targets.

It'd be worth coming up with a separate chart for vehicle targets, as well. I based the character chart above on WEG's movement failure charts...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11581
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

g, I had a thought. I'm a proponent of using the same rule applied as broadly as possible for the sake of simplicity, and I like using the 3=1 method of enhancing damage for accuracy.

So how about for a blast radius weapon like artillery, just invert it: for every point by which the artillery missed, reduce Damage by 3 points.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Saikoyu
Ensign
Ensign


Joined: 17 Apr 2016
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not take a page from the Classic Adventures fanbook? If the to hit roll is less than twice the difficulty to hit (adding in dodges and anything else), nothing happens. But it the to hit roll is more than that, but less than the the overall difficulty to hit, give the characters a stun result. This is how a lot of damage works in Classic, but in RAW I don't think there is anything. You could also have it so that it only works from a equal or higher scale weapon shooting at a lower scale target.

Example: Walker rolls a to hit of 15 and the difficult was 32, nothing happens a clean miss. Next turn the walker again rolls a 15 but this time the difficulty was 19, not enough to make a clean hit, but enough to stun the characters it was aiming at.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11581
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an interesting premise, but that method would seem to ignore the possibility of getting wounded by a near miss. The odds of a character successfully soaking damage from a Walker or Starfighter scale warhead is very low, and using this method would jump straight from a Stunned result to a straight roll of Character-Scale Strength against a 10D-15D Damage weapon.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Saikoyu
Ensign
Ensign


Joined: 17 Apr 2016
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if you really wanted the chance to be wounded you could just add in another division. Say to hit is less than 2 times difficulty is nothing, if to hit is 1.5 times would be stun, and if to hit was more than that, but less than the target difficulty, you roll half damage, or roll damage without the scale modifiers. I mean the basic idea could be split up however many times you want.

Personally, I'd leave it with stun, just because if someone gets shot at with something walker scale, I think the two basic possibilities are stunned or dead, with a real slim possibility of injury. Just thinking of Star Wars, I'm thinking of that scene in RotJ where the two Ewoks get hit by the round from the AT-ST. They both get hit, one is stunned and gets up, the other is dead. But again, that's me, your mileage may vary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11581
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other issue is that your method doesn't take weapon scale into effect. Consider that a Capital-scale weapon is far more likely to roll less than half the Difficulty to Hit than would a Walker or Starfighter scale weapon, but a Capital Ship's weapons would be much more powerful, with an accordingly larger blast radius (which would increase the chances of the target being damaged). A grenade detonating a meter away will not kill someone any less dead than a nuke going off a kilometer away, regardless of the degree of magnitude of the miss.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Naaman
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 2408

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm.... not sure if this will help, but here is 2 cents worth of input:

For targets inthe open who ARE IN the blast radius, just roll damage (there is no way to know if artillery is being dropped on you unless it misses). If cover is available and/or in use, allow the dodge roll AFTER determining whether the targets are in the radius, but before rolling damage. Successful evasion into hard cover prevents damage..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11581
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
For targets in the open who ARE IN the blast radius, just roll damage (there is no way to know if artillery is being dropped on you unless it misses). If cover is available and/or in use, allow the dodge roll AFTER determining whether the targets are in the radius, but before rolling damage. Successful evasion into hard cover prevents damage..

The problem all along has been how to determine whether or not the characters are in the blast radius, since almost no weapons apart from hand grenades are equipped with functional blast radii and scattering effects. In fact, it's arguable (IMO) that impact-detonated weapons like artillery and grenade launchers would not give their targets sufficient time to react in the same manner allowed by a hand grenade.

That's part of what I'm liking about my 1-3 suggestion from above. Inflicting damage would be heavily dependent on getting the ordnance "close enough", as a 1D shift in Fire Control would be roughly equal to about a 3D shift in Damage, greatly increasing the effectiveness of guided weapons.

If it's important to know how close the blast was in meters, we can work out some modifiers based on the scale of the weapon.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11581
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, g, if my -1 Miss = -1D Damage rule meets with your approval, here are my thoughts on different types of shells...

I'm basing my assumptions on my Scale System, in which a heavy artillery cannon will be Walker-Scale (+8D).

Using the -1 = -1D rule as a base, we can expand on it in either direction, with a -2 = -1D creating a larger effective blast radius, and -1 = -2D creating a smaller one.

garhkal wrote:
Anti-personnel (large blast radius, quicker dissipation of damage per Blast zone)

Damage: 2D, Blast Reduction: -2 = -1D (Effective Radius = 20D)

Quote:
HE regular (standard for all others)

Damage: 7D, Blast Reduction: -1 = -1D (Effective Radius = 15D)

Quote:
Anti-vehicle/structural (Shorter blast radius, but lesser drop per zone)

Damage: 9D, Blast Reduction: -1 = -2D (Effective Radius = 9D)

Quote:
Flare (lasts x number of rounds giving light in a Y radi)

No real thoughts yet on how radius would apply here, but since the Cover rules give complete darkness a Cover rating of +4D, I'd suggest some rule that negates that for x # of rounds.

Quote:
incendiary (smallest blast radius, and burns each round..)

Damage: 2D (Fire) Blast Reduction: -1 = -1D (Effective Radius = 10D)

Quote:
For howitzer like artillery, what other types can be added in, such as radar locking shells, homing shells etc..

This would use similar rules to the shells above, with -1D-2D from Damage to make room for the guidance package. Basically using the same blast radius rules, but with much higher Fire Control, in the +4D range.

So, in game terms, the Artillery weapon targets a specific grid square (as indicated by sensors, spotters, LOS, or whatever) which is treated as a stationary Walker-Scale target, then rolls standard Gunnery + FC to attack against the basic Difficulty for that range. If it can't beat the Base Difficulty, it misses the target area completely, and the characters don't need to roll Dodge.

However, if it does roll higher than the Base Difficulty to hit, then use the blast radius rules previously described.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Here's my thoughts on Flare and Smoke Rounds, as mentioned above:
    Flare
    Effect: Negates up to 4D of Darkness Concealment
    Reduction: -1D to Concealment Modifier per every -5 on Gunnery.
    Duration: Lasts 6 rounds, then Effect reduces by 1D per round as flares burn out.

    Blind (Full Spectrum Smoke)
    Effect: Provides up to 4D of Concealment against normal vision, enhanced optic systems and Sensors.
    Reduction: -1D to Concealment Modifier per every -3 on GUnnery
    Duration: Lasts 12 rounds (6 if windy), -1 to Effect per round until fully dissipated.

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index


Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 11581
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From there, we can start getting into more esoteric rounds like gas, Artillery-Delivered Minefields or droid delivery platforms (think spotter, ECM or infiltrator droids - an artillery delivered commando robot to attack the characters directly, or to deploy defensively if they get too close to the walker).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16 ... 19, 20, 21  Next
Page 15 of 21

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0