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cunning_kindred
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Southampton, England
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 Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: Flow Walking |
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I'm curious if anyone has attempted to incorporate this idea into their games or had any luck creating a power description for it. I have a friend who has reason to believe his character could potentially learn it and I've been musing over the possibility of writing it up as a power but I haven't actually read much of the Legacy of the Force stuff and what I can find on Wookiepedia leads me to believe this power might well be unmanageable. I just want to get your opinions.
For those that don't know: Flow Walking is an ability Jacen learned shortly before succumbing to the dark side from Aing-ti monks. Depending on how you read the books its either some kind of extremely advanced Farseeing technique or an actual form of time travel (though with limitations that I'm not sure I completely understand). |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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While i agre it does seem more of a 'time travel esque' like power, it did have its down sides. In that you could not manipulate the past (if you went backwards) nor could you show strong emotions otherwise you might get noticed by those in the past you are viewing.
Personally i would have rather they not put it in.
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YodaWI
Lieutenant
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Watertown, WI
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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I would agree in that I wish it would have been left out. It struck me as one of those things that has been added to the Star Wars Universe because the authors were running out of 'new' stuff. I personally never would have imagined it was possible in the Force.
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I just read the description on Wookieepedia, and I have no idea how you would ever be able to create balanced mechanics for that.
You find things like that in novels. As much as I loved "I Jedi," there is no way that I would create a mechanic to use Absorb/dissibate energy as a way to fuel greater manifestations of Force power.
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cunning_kindred
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Southampton, England
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You find things like that in novels. As much as I loved "I Jedi," there is no way that I would create a mechanic to use Absorb/dissibate energy as a way to fuel greater manifestations of Force power. |
That we did. I was quite happy with it once I worked out how to do it. Of course, I rebuilt the entire Force System. I have no idea how I would do it in the original system. I suppose a vague translation would be temporary access to the appropriate telekinetic power after absorbing energy.
| Quote: | | I just read the description on Wookieepedia, and I have no idea how you would ever be able to create balanced mechanics for that. |
No. me neither. Like I said at the beginning: I've read the description and I'm not at all sure what the advantages/disadvantages of the ability actually are. You obviously cannot change the past or the future. I means its almost like a form of Farseeing where you find that where you view already was or already will be influenced by your viewing it (in such a way that you are caught up in the whole thing and simply never can avoid your destiny) - is that how anyone else reads it?
I hate been stumped by something like this. I only started looking into this because someone asked about but now I almost want to find a balanced way to do it (that at least satisfies me) as a point of principle. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | As much as I loved "I Jedi," there is no way that I would create a mechanic to use Absorb/dissibate energy as a way to fuel greater manifestations of Force power. |
Already done.
Channel energy. C/S/A power
Required powers, Ab/dis energy, TK, TK kill
With this power active a jedi can absorb energy via the AB/DIs power but unlike that power where it is 'discemenated via light' the jedi turns it into a boost for his other powers. When absorbing this way, he can "convert" 3 points of absorbed damage into a +1 pip, and that damage can be pooled for any use. Whether a one time MASS tk (such as Halcon did with that sith) or over many powers.
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cunning_kindred
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Southampton, England
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Channel energy. C/S/A power
Required powers, Ab/dis energy, TK, TK kill
With this power active a jedi can absorb energy via the AB/DIs power but unlike that power where it is 'discemenated via light' the jedi turns it into a boost for his other powers. When absorbing this way, he can "convert" 3 points of absorbed damage into a +1 pip, and that damage can be pooled for any use. Whether a one time MASS tk (such as Halcon did with that sith) or over many powers. |
Isn't the idea that the Halcyon Jedi are rubbish at TK and cannot do it without first using this power. Wouldn't it make more sense to remove TK from the prerequisite and let them use whatever damage they successfully absorb 1 damage point equals 1 pip in place of their alter skill for one round after this power is used and to grant them access to one alter-based power they do not normally have access to for same period. |
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vong
Jedi
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 6699
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Im not sure where I stand with Flow walking...
On one hand its pretty cool, and defiantly a good plot device.
On the other hand, how would you control this ability that a PC had... It opens too many cans of worms and allows the PCs too much freedom.
that being said, any PC who can use this is a high powered PC, and might actually have to flow walk to solve problems.
So, my run at the description:
Flow Walking
C/S/A
Control Diff: Heroic
Sense Diff: Heroic+10 (modified by proximity to location flow walking to)
Alter Diff: Heroic+20
Required Powers: ? various Aing-ti monk powers?
Effect: The jedi must be calm, and at rest. The jedi must not only sense when he wishes to flow walk to, but where he wishes to flow walk to. Once the jedi has sensed where and when he wishes to go, he must exert his will, and force his presence into that time. Once there the jedi must make control rolls every round to remain there, and to keep his emotions in check.
a jedi who fails a control roll can either lose control of his emotions, causing his presence to be known in the past or simply sent back to his proper time. The abruptness of teh return on a failed roll causes 10D stun damage to the jedi.
I took some liberties with the power effect that wernt in the books, but felt would belong there.
tis just a first draft, so feel free to rip it apart without fear of hurting my feelings 
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cunning_kindred
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Southampton, England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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I have a version of Flow Walking I think I might try to use in the game. Obviously, I've written it in the format I would use in my game but I'll include a quick translation as well. I've taken some liberties with the power since the effects seem somewhat similar to certain other Force Powers and by setting it up this way I leave things open for the characters to discover they can do things that perhaps Jacen never thought to try. Obviously, though I would love the opinion of others - does this replicate the effects as occur in the books etc.
Firstly, I should explain that I have some powers in my game which are mentioned in this description. Expel Spirit is the ability to project your spirit beyond your own body or to temporarily become a Force Ghost although one that is not as completely a part of the Force as true deceased Jedi. Manifestation is the power that such spirits must use before they can use the alter skills and it makes them visible. Cloak Spirit is the ability of Force Spirits that have manifested to remain invisible. None of these powers are particular easy to use but they do not require Force Points. You can look up all but Cloak spirit on my website (I haven't put that up yet and will probably edit the fluff for the power to bring it in line with how I see it and flow walking working together - this is the power that require strict disciplined control in order to remain unseen which I think fits well with its other uses as well - keeping all Force Spirit invisible).
So, the power:
| Quote: | (A) Flow Walking
Tradition: Aing-ti Monks
Visualisation Difficulty: Very Difficult to penetrate the past, Heroic to step into the future; +20 if travelled to an event you participated in or will participate in directly (without using this power)
Farseeing Difficulty: Very difficult to flow walk to a significant event in the past or future, Heroic for an event that’s important to you but few others, Heroic +10 or higher for even less significant events, modified by your relationship to the individual involved in the event most closely associated with you, modified by the time since the event in the past (or twice the usual modifier if the event occurs in the future)
Manipulate Space and Time Difficulty: Very Difficult to walk into the past, Heroic to walk into the future, modified by the time since the even or twice the time until the event will occur
Time to Use: Ten Minutes or One Round (Reaction, see below)
Duration: Concentration, up to one minute
Force Point: You must spend a Force Point to use this power.
Warning! Although not a Dark Side power any Dark Side character that uses this power automatically succumbs to his anger and rage as he projects himself and must make a Dark Side Temptation test and a roll to resist corruption. If the character is tainted he or she must make a Resist the Dark Side’s Influence roll or have to make a Dark Side Temptation test.
Reaction: This power can be used as a reaction to the Jedi having to relinquish concentration due to the one minute limit coming to end. If the new activation roll is successful the Jedi can keep the power operating for a further minute.
Requires: Specialization in Clairvoyant Meditation, Emptiness or Rage and at least nine other powers that involve control skills
This is probably one of the most esoteric abilities ever learned by a member of the Jedi Order and as of the death of Jacen Solo it seems likely that no one else will ever learn its secrets. The Jedi Master using this ability enters a deep and intense trance whereby he releases his mind to travel through time but not through space. To use this power you must first activate expel spirit and manifestation although you need not necessarily leave your body as you activate this power.
Focusing on some event you know to have occurred in the past or one that is likely to occur in the future you depart your current location and are traversed to this other time where you experience events as though you were present (which in truth you are). You can only travel in time. You are still in the same location after using this power.
You are visible to those present although intangible and ghostly but can learn to stay unseen by maintain a strict control of your emotions using the Conceal Spirit power.
When travelling into the future you must concentrate on an event you believe is likely to happen and you must choose between multiple futures. You arrive in a real possible future but there are no guarantees that this future will come to pass.
When travelling into the past you can interact with and involve yourself but doing so makes future attempts to use this power (including the rolls made to keep it going after one minute) more difficult (+5 for a minor involvement to +30 for taking an active role in events). You cannot alter the past however and any effort on your part to do so will either prematurely end this power or be undone by the passage of time (it always happened that way… you just don’t remember it correctly).
Note: This power can be a fantastic and potent plot device but it should be used with extreme care and all Jedi that use it should note that messing with time brings the danger of being controlled by the power – by the destiny it imposes through the experiences its grants – rather than the other way around.
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To use this power as written in another game you would need to have a power that allows you to leave your body (as a mind) and to manifest and remain concealed (as manifestation and cloak spirit allow). You would also have to change the power thus:
| Quote: | Flow Walking
Control Difficulty: Very Difficult to penetrate the past, Heroic to step into the future; +20 if travelled to an event you participated in or will participate in directly (without using this power)
Sense Difficulty: Very difficult to flow walk to a significant event in the past or future, Heroic for an event that’s important to you but few others, Heroic +10 or higher for even less significant events, modified by your relationship to the individual involved in the event most closely associated with you, modified by the time since the event in the past (or twice the usual modifier if the event occurs in the future)
Alter Difficulty: Very Difficult to walk into the past, Heroic to walk into the future, modified by the time since the even or twice the time until the event will occur
Time to Use: Ten Minutes
You can keep this power up for approximately one minute.
You must spend a Force Point to use this power.
Requires: Emptiness, Control Pain, Farseeing, Hibernation Trance, Telekinesis (and probably lots others too) |
So does this capture at least the spirit of the power. Have I completely neutered it and is this playable - balanced - in your opinion? |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| cunning_kindred wrote: | | Quote: | Channel energy. C/S/A power
Required powers, Ab/dis energy, TK, TK kill
With this power active a jedi can absorb energy via the AB/DIs power but unlike that power where it is 'discemenated via light' the jedi turns it into a boost for his other powers. When absorbing this way, he can "convert" 3 points of absorbed damage into a +1 pip, and that damage can be pooled for any use. Whether a one time MASS tk (such as Halcon did with that sith) or over many powers. |
Isn't the idea that the Halcyon Jedi are rubbish at TK and cannot do it without first using this power. Wouldn't it make more sense to remove TK from the prerequisite and let them use whatever damage they successfully absorb 1 damage point equals 1 pip in place of their alter skill for one round after this power is used and to grant them access to one alter-based power they do not normally have access to for same period. |
Yes it is. As for the damage, i did this to make it not as powerful as it could otherwise be. Imagine a force user with 6d in all, who popped a FP, and soaked a E-web blast. at 1 for 1, that would be potentially 47 extra points he could push out next round. At 1 for 3, he would get around 16 at most.
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cunning_kindred
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Southampton, England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, I see where I screwed up there. I failed to realize you were calculating the dice bonus based on the actual damage roll result. When I wrote my version of the power the individual had to completely absorb the attack and if he did he could substitute the damage dice pool for his telekinesis skill for one round for the use of one specific telekinesis based power.
So you get attacked with a 6D blaster and successfully absorb the attack and can, for one round substitute 6D instead of your normal Alter 4D for the purposes of using telekinesis.
My issue with your idea was not the 3-for-1 thing but that a bonus on top of alter seems too power regardless of its size. My way the power is only any use if you haven't got a very good alter skill and you are attacked with something that had more punch than your own alter skill. Your way, an individual who already has alter 6D could get an additional +2D bonus on top of it from a 6D blaster. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:41 am Post subject: |
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It is dependent on the damage actually rolled, but otherwise it jst adds to your base skill. But i do like your suggestion where the damage absorbed is used as the actual roll for tk.
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