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Jedi AlanRocks
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Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 46
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 Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Dread Pirate Al wrote: | Linking Brawl to STR has the same drawback (to my mind) as XD&D using STR as a base for hitting in close combat. I cannot see how being stronger makes you more likely to hit someone.
So I certainly like the idea of moving Brawl to Dex.
So I would certainly support the idea of rolling Brawling and Brawling Parry into one skill.
In fact in my houserules I just have one skill 'Combat' which subsumes Brawling, Brawling Parry, Melee and Melee Parry. It offends my eye to have an artifical distinction between fighting armed and unarmed.
A Parry is very different from a Block is very different from sliding inside opponent's guard or sidestepping but for an reasonable degree of playability the authors were prepared to have one skill to abstract them. I go two steps further.
Al |
I think we could make a good case for brawl being either a Dex skill or a Str skill. I call it STR skill because (as mentioned earlier) Dex has many useful skills already and I like to spread skills around. I also think that brawling is very stamina intensive, just spend a few minutes on a heavy bag and you'll see what I mean. I also see your point about Brawl and Melee not necessarily being two different skills, but I think that you would fight a knife wielding opponent differently than one who is unarmed.
| Quote: | | But melee and brawl don't happen all that often. So instead of the cool fist fight or knife fight, the PC, who hasn't increased brawling or melee, just shoots the guy. |
You can't always draw your blaster, there may be no time (IE your PC is being bum rushed) or it may be too crowded (you cant go firing into a crowded cantina) or you may have to check your weapons at the door. I my 'verse there are a lot of places you can't carry weapons (for one reason or another) and just about everywhere in the universe it's considered uncouth to walk around with a giant rifle over your shoulder and a bandolier with a dozen thermal detonators clipped on it.
However pistol whipping and butt stroking are considered melee IMHO and I have had PC's club people into submission with rifle butts before.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But melee and brawl don't happen all that often. So instead of the cool fist fight or knife fight, the PC, who hasn't increased brawling or melee, just shoots the guy. |
What of worlds you are on where blasters are outlawed? OR don't people have those types of planets in their games?
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Gry Sarth
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Joined: 25 May 2004
Posts: 5304
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yes, those are fun planets. I remember one when people were only allowed firearms. Oh boy, talk about a bunch of skill-less adventurers...
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jmanski
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 2065
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What of worlds you are on where blasters are outlawed? OR don't people have those types of planets in their games? |
Well, they may not be allowed..... but they if they don't see 'em.....
I agree that characters need brawling and melee, I'm just saying that it's a lot of extra cp's to throw around for four skills, counting the parries, that won't be used a lot.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Not really. What we are trying to get at, is not in every case will you even get the chance to use blasters. When an alien pops out of sneak right in your face, brawl and/or melee is what you will be needing.
And as to finding them, that is why most of my imperial customs agents have a GOOD search skill... You do know hide is used to conseal items...
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Yak Face
Lieutenant
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 82
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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I've never had a hard time seeing some difference between armed and unarmed combat, so I've not questioned having 2 separate skills for attacking. However, blocking physical attacks seems pretty generic to me. I use a generic "parry" skill that covers brawling and melee attacks, with a +1D advantage to the armed person in a fight wherein not everyone has a melee weapon.
I can see the arguements for having brawling reside under Dex; I accomplish it with a separate "martial arts" skill. Same principle - just a different name. The idea being that the brawler uses his brute physical strength with roundhouse punches and head butts and such, whereas a martial artist uses his speed and agility to attack. People play to their strengths, so a big strong guy would rely on raw muscle with good results, whereas a wiry little guy would have to use quickness.
Now if only they had a good, workable rule for grappling...
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Esoomian
High Admiral
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6207
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Yak Face wrote: | | Now if only they had a good, workable rule for grappling... |
Like for example:
| p. 58 2.5 Edition wrote: |
difficult to attack +10 (moderate instead of very easy). If a result of stun or better is achieved the opponent is pinned down or subdued. The attacker can automatically inflict damage for every round the target is at bay. The victim must make an opposite STR roll to escape, with +1 penalty for each point by which the character succeeded in his grapple attempt. |
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Yak Face
Lieutenant
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 82
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Well, isn't my face red...
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Rasta
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Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I personally like the rules as written. While I understand that it takes dexterity to make successful strikes, the system is more abstracted.
In real life size and strength means that you have an edge in hand to hand combat, which is the reason why fighting sports have weight classes, and the reason why Brok Lesner is the UFC heavyweight champion. He's definately not the most skilled fighter, but he hits the hardest.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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And if he gets you down, even with having a good wrestling backround you are not getting him off.
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Rasta
Cadet
Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | And if he gets you down, even with having a good wrestling backround you are not getting him off. |
Yeah no kidding.
/Off Topic
It will be interesting to see if anyone will be able to stand up to him. I heard a little bird say that Fedor is coming to UFC.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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I know bob sap and Bobby lashley have started their MMA careers in Ultimate Chaos.. Supposedly lashley is at 3 and 0. Give him another year and he might make it to the big payday of the UFC...
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bobenhotep
Commander
Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 333
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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Chewy would beat all of them...
i thought of allowing the characters to defend with the combat skill or the parry skill. if they defend with the parry skill, however, they gain a bonus based on how high they roll over the attack (or suffer less damage on a near successful parry). example:
character a has melee combat 5D and uses his melee combat to defend against a melee attack from character b, also with 5D in the same skill.
character a declares parry and one attack. b attacks once
a rolls a 15 to parry. if b rolls
-a 10 he misses
-a 20 he hits
now lets say "a" has 5D in melee parry. he rolls the same die as above
"b" rolls a 10. "a" rolled 5 over, so he gets +1D to his next attack this round. if "b" rolled a 20, then he does -1D damage to "a".
so maybe if attack beats parry by equal to or less than 5, it does -1D damage. if parry beats attack by equal to or greater than 5, next attack this round gets +1D to hit. kinda a roll with punches/ set up counters type deal.
parry should do something cool. after all it costs the same as a skill that allows you to fly a spaceship...
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:14 am Post subject: |
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It does.. you get to parry all attacks incomming and if going against someone brawling, you get a bonus to parring.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2426
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| bobenhotep wrote: | | Chewy would beat all of them.... |
And probably rip their arms out of their sockets... 
I use a general Brawling and a general Melee skill for both attacking and defending.
I like to keep the number of skills down to a minimum for ease of play (I also has Hide/Sneak as one skill and use Blaster instead of Vehicle Blasters and in general dont use specialisations). Keep things fast and easy... |
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