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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
However, one shard volunteered to go with the Jedi master who stumbled across the shard to find out more about the universe as a whole, and whether or not the shard wish to have any vested interest in such things.


Did this master also agree to take him on as an apprentice? If not he is going to be peeved he is spending double to raise his force powers.

Quote:
Also, he's going to have to buy force dice, and because I'm thinking about making him rather naive when it comes to the galaxy and most technology, he's not going to be able to attempt any skill that he's not trained in, since he hasn't be an individual from the collective of his home world for very long. Which should hopefully make things somewhat interesting.


So he won't have streetwise, anything starship, computer, or blasters. Heck i could even see no first aid.
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wolfe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Isn't he worried about darkside points? As I understand it, every part of technology that is part of your body increases the drift to the dark side. A Jedi master would likely forsee this and forgo instructing him in force usage. I would agree on force sensitivity, but definately not Jedi training. Masters have ben expelled for lesser offenses.

This goes completely against what is already established with the Iron Knights a group of Shard Jedi knights.

The Shards aren't cyborgs, they are beings using droids as vehicles.
Your line of reasoning with the shard would mean no jedi could ever use their force abilities while in fighters or any other vehicle without dark side issues Laughing


Quote:
Did this master also agree to take him on as an apprentice? If not he is going to be peeved he is spending double to raise his force powers.


That has never ever made any sense what so ever.
We completely ignore that hooey.
You can learn to be a jedi from a master who hasn't agreed to teach you?
In what realm of insanity does that ever make any sense?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Your line of reasoning with the shard would mean no jedi could ever use their force abilities while in fighters or any other vehicle without dark side issues Laughing


IMO there is a BIG difference between a shard using a droid since they actually access the droids skill set as well as their senses, and a jedi stepping into a fighter to dogfight..

Quote:
That has never ever made any sense what so ever.
We completely ignore that hooey.
You can learn to be a jedi from a master who hasn't agreed to teach you?
In what realm of insanity does that ever make any sense?


I am not understanding you here. Are you agreeing with me that if the master has not taken him on as a student he will have to pay the double cost for masterless training? OR are you saying a student should be able to train normally even if the master has not agreed to teach you???
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Did this master also agree to take him on as an apprentice? If not he is going to be peeved he is spending double to raise his force powers.


The master is going to train him as an apprentice.

Quote:
IMO there is a BIG difference between a shard using a droid since they actually access the droids skill set as well as their senses, and a jedi stepping into a fighter to dogfight..


I'm not giving the shard access to any of the droid's skills for the time being, because he's going to be the "first" of his kind removed from the planet and implanted in a droid, I'm going to rule that the droid's programming had become corrupt with the implantation.


Quote:
So he won't have streetwise, anything starship, computer, or blasters. Heck i could even see no first aid.


Only what the character spends with his starting skill dice. This is to reflect that the player has spent a little bit of time away from the world, but not enough to completely understand the intricate workings of a lot of the galaxy. I assume that the character will be spending a lot of his time in hyperspace and such accumulating as much information as he can from the ship's computer and data logs. I'll let the player buy his way out of the flaw after a while with character points. I'm of the opinion that I'm allowing a player to play something in a time period where in the main story line he doesn't exist, so we're going to come to an agreement on it. My player is a veteran roleplayer, I'm sure he'll have no problem with the role.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, my next question is. I've been looking through the already drafted templates, and I'm trying to decide how much money to allow the player to work with on the droid body. I was thinking about giving him somewhere along the lines of 3000 credits, this is to have the main body, and then whatever else to upgrade. We already picked out the droid body he'll use which is 2500 credits.

Quote:
GE3 Protocol Droid
Type: Czerka Corporation GE3-series Protocol Droid
DEXTERITY 1D
KNOWLEDGE 2D+2
Alien species 5D, bureaucracy 6D, cultures 6D,
languages 8D
MECHANICAL 1D
PERCEPTION 2D
Persuasion 4D+2
STRENGTH 1D
TECHNICAL 1D
Equipped With:
-Humanoid body (two arms,
two legs, head)
-Audio recorder
-Vocabulator
-Basic processor
-Translator unit
Move: 8
Size: 1.7 meters tall
Cost: 2,500 (new)
Equipment: Comlink
Source: Knights of the Old
Republic Campaign Guide
(pages 82-83)


Now, using the rules for Cynabar's Droids, for him to raise a Third Degree Droid's Strength would cost 400 credits per die, or 135 credits per pip, and Dexterity would cost 300 credits per die, or 100 credits per pip. Also, if he ends up improving the legs on the droid for better movement, it'll cost at least 1000 credits. Now, given the situation he'll be in with the company he'll be keeping, money will be a serious limiting factor with him. He'll be able to use salvage possibly, however I'm going to take into account mishap tables for any gear which has been "modified" to be usable for whatever they need. Same thing is going to be applied to ship modifications and the like. So, the best he'll be able to hope for with his starting physical attributes will be 2D in either Dex or Str, and 1D+1 in the other.
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wolfe
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
IMO there is a BIG difference between a shard using a droid since they actually access the droids skill set as well as their senses, and a jedi stepping into a fighter to dogfight..


There is no real difference between a droid "vehicle" body and a starship, especially if that starship has an astromech jacked in as well.

The droid body is a vehicle nothing more.

You don't cut up a shard to place droid parts in them.
You place the Shard in the droid "vehicle" (as it clearly calls it that) in "Alien Encounters" and no where is it mentioned in any book in any version of the game that it is treated like cyborging.
That would have been a beyond massive bit of information to have left out With the Shard "Iron Knight" Jedi's running around in the Saga game.

There is nothing nowhere that comes remotely close to corroborating your reasoning, in fact all data available clearly refutes it.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so I finally managed to get in contact with my player. We haven't had too much time to discuss the template itself. Right now he's decided on how to spend his last D, but it looks like we're going with:

Knowledge: 4D
Mechanical: 3D
Perception: 3D
Technical: 6D

Control: 1D
Sense: 1D

My player is still torn on whether he wants to increase the knowledge at the cost of mechanical. He seems to be leaning more toward 5D knowledge and 2D mechanical.

Also, as I stated before, the player and I are going to work with 3000 credits to make the droid itself. At this point I'm not charging him anything extra for the shard integrator. The droid chassis is 2500 credits. Which is going to leave him with 500. He's going to have either 2D in dex or str, and 1D+1 in the other. Or he can level it out to 1D+2 in both.

Move is going to stay the same. And I'm working on some custom rules for integrating the advantages and disadvantages of D6 space. He's going to get a few of those, such as Cultural unfamiliarity (R3) which will give him at least a -6 to many social situations and information skills. In addition to the inability to attempt skills that are not trained up by at least +1, if things start looking off, I may up that to +2 or +1D, not to mention there will be GM ruling on whether it's appropriate for his character to know it. Also he's getting the Prejudice(R1) disadvantage. Because of his droid appearance, droids are somewhat distrusted, and considered to be only property, which will also give him some penalties in social interactions, but likely only -2 or -3.

With a 6D technical, he is going to be a beast when it comes to computer systems and any sorts of repair rolls. Which is what the player wants. He has decided that he really is not interested in becoming very competent in combat, only learning just enough to be able to stop things from trying to harm him.

Currently I'm not really too concerned because is most combat situations the other players will be able to shine, However this character will be very useful for any of the crew's technical and hopefully informational needs eventually.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got a chance to talk with the player again, he's decided to go for a more well rounded. So the above stats stand, Decided to keep his Mechanical up, just in case.

Based on the Jedi master who's accompanying him and training him, I've come up with the following skill list for the template:

Dexterity; Dodge, Lightsaber, Running
Knowledge; Alien Species, Cultures, Languages, Planetary Systems, Scholar: Jedi Lore, Willpower.
Mechanical; Astrogation, Communications, Repulsorlift Operation, Sensors, Space Transports, Starship Shields.
Perception; Hide, Persuasion, Search, Sneak
Strength; Climbing/Jumping, Lifting
Technical; Armor Repair, Computer Programming/Repair, Droid Programming, Droid Repair, Lightsaber Repair, Repulsorlift Repair, Security, Space Transports Repair, Starship Weapon Repair

Now, this is just the list for the template itself, as I said before, the player won't be able to attempt these skills until he trains in them.

I'm still waiting to hear back what he plans to do with the decision about his Dexterity & Strength attributes.

Any feedback, comments, or questions about the selection of skills I'm allowing him to place his starting dice in?
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Rerun941
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One twist you may want to consider is that the droid is basically acting as a powersuit. You might want to have to make him roll Powersuit Operation on occasion (and add it to the template).

Oh, and make sure he roleplays the cultural unfamiliarity and social awkwardness to the hilt, even with his Jedi Master. A shard would not understand non-verbal communication, idioms, or slang. Heck, it may not even understand what a lie is (at least at first).

Just my two credits.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. I think my player is up to the task. He's played a complete "alien" to society before. This shouldn't be too much different. As for the powersuit operations. I'm not sure if I will, because it will wind up giving him a higher attribute to work with. His Dex is going to be 2D, and Str will be 1D+1.
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wolfe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't use power suit operation.
You wouldn't make your characters get a walking skill just to take a step.
How about a breathing skill.
The droid physical attributes will work fine as is.

People seem to be bent on way over complicating a rather simple character concept.

The shard is just a droid with a sapient operating system.
As the WEG book says: Shard characters provide a way of including "droids that aren't really droids" in the campaign and providing "droid" characters with more free will and autonomy then ordinary droids.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
Ok, so I finally managed to get in contact with my player. We haven't had too much time to discuss the template itself. Right now he's decided on how to spend his last D, but it looks like we're going with:

Knowledge: 4D
Mechanical: 3D
Perception: 3D
Technical: 6D

Control: 1D
Sense: 1D

My player is still torn on whether he wants to increase the knowledge at the cost of mechanical. He seems to be leaning more toward 5D knowledge and 2D mechanical.


5d knowledge as well as 6d tech with lots of stuff space based for someone so new just seems outlandish to me. sorry. Now i COULD see 3/4d area, showing a natural aptitude, but 5/6?

Quote:
Scholar: Jedi Lore,


Why would he already have this being he just started out?

Same with lightsaber? DId he already make one?

Quote:
Now, this is just the list for the template itself, as I said before, the player won't be able to attempt these skills until he trains in them.


Since he won't be able to attemt the space based skills why even write them down. Wait till he actually trains in them.
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cheshire
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These stats seem pretty beefy. If I were trying to add a bit more balance into his character (also so he doesn't start showing up everyone else in the group) I would make him and his droid body "share attributes," if you know what I mean. There's no need to get a stock droid. Make him take a bit of a hit to his technical for his droid body's dexterity. That's my thought.

This is one of those characters that I hear so many people talking about in their dislike for D6. That is to say, someone got a hold of a species/concept that allowed them huge dice pools and completely overwhelmed everyone else in the group.
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why would he already have this being he just started out?

Same with lightsaber? Did he already make one?


Because he's been training under and learning from a Jedi master for almost 2 years. Also, the Jedi of that time period were not very constricting about keeping secrets from people. They believe in educating and spreading wisdom.

Lightsaber perhaps he won't train in. But I'm not going to stop the character from putting anything into skills. How would you feel if you were handed a character with a set of attributes and then given no template of skills to select with your starting dice? Starting characters with 7D are somewhat limited in the abilities they can train in. So if he chooses to put 1D in lightsaber, he'll be rolling effectively 3D trying to beat at minimum a 16 difficulty. If the character does screw up, he'll likely cut himself to ribbons.

Quote:
5d knowledge as well as 6d tech with lots of stuff space based for someone so new just seems outlandish to me. sorry. Now i COULD see 3/4d area, showing a natural aptitude, but 5/6?


6D with technical is very high... but take into account the fact that his race is not even a carbon based life form. You or I couldn't even begin to understand how their mental pathways work. Why should everything be limited to "human standards"? 5D Strength in the D6 system can pretty much create an invincible player. A Barabel with 5D Strength can soak just about anything, Wookies themselves are hard to kill without natural armor. His player will be able to repair things really well assuming that he has the necessary materials, crack open doors that are locked using electronic means, and access computer systems. Keep in mind that the amount of networked information in this time period is very limited, and he probably won't even be able to access most systems remotely, which gives way to new adventure hooks.

Just imagine if he wasn't going to have force skills and abilities that he was having to keep up on. He could in a sense have 4D in his Knowledge, Mechanical, and Perception. The race itself is granted 12D average, which means as a player he gets 18D for attributes. That's just the way it works out in the system. Would it be much different if he decided to make a Verpine, or any of the other of the technically apt aliens in the game? 5D with a +2D to any technical roll attempted is insane. That means that even an untrained skill the Verpine rolling would be 7D. I'm counting my blessings that he only gets his racial modifier above his attribute with Computer Programming/Repair, and Droid programming, and that's it. So for those two skills, he'll be rolling at an additional 1D.

Quote:
These stats seem pretty beefy. If I were trying to add a bit more balance into his character (also so he doesn't start showing up everyone else in the group) I would make him and his droid body "share attributes," if you know what I mean. There's no need to get a stock droid. Make him take a bit of a hit to his technical for his droid body's dexterity. That's my thought.


I see where you're coming from on this Chesh, however the fact of the matter is that his droid body can be very easily taken away from him. Would you want to spend your attribute dice on a character you're making to have a single piece of flimsy equipment that can break or be removed at any moment by the GM? Attributes should not have to be sacrificed for gear. That's too boring. Mishap tables for the droid body that has gone through revolutionary redesign to accommodate the creature riding inside it, is a little more interesting.

Quote:
This is one of those characters that I hear so many people talking about in their dislike for D6. That is to say, someone got a hold of a species/concept that allowed them huge dice pools and completely overwhelmed everyone else in the group.


Honestly, if it were anything other than the Technical attribute, I might agree with you. However, the player can be limited monetarily. Repairs cost money, upgrades cost money, and computer systems cost money. Take a look at this from the perspective of a race that has never had to deal with money. All he'll realize is that he doesn't have the necessary parts to make the improvements or repairs that he wishes. Even if he did slay an enemy, would he really think to clean out his pockets? "What are these little round things in here? They don't look useful to me."

Currently the player has lower Dexterity, Strength, and Force Attributes than the other players. Which means, he can't defend himself as well, he cannot soak, and he can't really use the force to get himself out of trouble. If things start looking that way, well... That's when the GM starts getting creative, like applying a +30 difficulty modifier to his force rolls because he doesn't share even a chemical base with almost every creature in the galaxy, save for Dianogas, Mynock, and the other Crystal species who's name escapes me right now.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Because he's been training under and learning from a Jedi master for almost 2 years.


I could not see that from what you said.

Quote:
Why should everything be limited to "human standards"?


Human standards would be 4d max..


Quote:
He could in a sense have 4D in his Knowledge, Mechanical, and Perception.


Which would leave him 2d for Tech, str and dex.. I have no issue there.

Your basically giving him Str and Dex for free.

Quote:
That means that even an untrained skill the Verpine rolling would be 7D. I'm counting my blessings that he only gets his racial modifier above his attribute with Computer Programming/Repair, and Droid programming, and that's it. So for those two skills, he'll be rolling at an additional 1D.


But at least verpine are A) a space based race who have been around tech for a long time and B) used to the stuff they gain the bonus on.
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