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Radiation Damage
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also worth addressing that radiation has a harmful effect on unshielded electronics, as well. Perhaps have a radiation field inflict both initial Stun and EMP Damage (like ionization, but penalties don't roll off), with subsequent long-term effects for organics based on the level of Stun damage taken.

Also, duration. In the instance of a radiation grenade, would the level of radioactivity remain relatively constant from the point of detonation, or would there be a spike followed by long-term radioactivity at somewhat lower levels? If this is just a "dirty grenade", I'd think some of the initial radioactivity would be lost after the initial detonation.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radioactive particles eventually decay to a stable state. Something as small as a grenade would probably not linger for super long. But the radiation/contamination area should at least be harmful for the rest of the adventure, I would think. Since it's a grenade, I would think it should be treated like a micro nuke. It's initial effect may be similar to a thermal detonator (or maybe even just a frag grenade, in terms of damage) with the contamination being spread within a certain radius for the rest of the gaming session (or until it's been cleaned up).

As for a general rule about how long it takes to decay? For something like a grenade, maybe the initial radiation damage could be whatever it is (say, 5D), and each day 1D falls off. Or you could go 1 pip every 8 hours.

How long it lingers depends on a lot of things like how windy it is, luck (radio active decay is random), humidity/ambient static in the air, etc.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't have to be a pocket nuke; it could just be as simple as a regular grenade lined with a highly radioactive substance, maybe with a protective sandwich-layer (radioactive material sandwiched between an inner and outer lead lining, with explosives inside the shell). The grenade would be more difficult to manufacture, and probably more bulky than a standard grenade, but a pocket dirty bomb doesn't need to be fancy.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
It doesn't have to be a pocket nuke; it could just be as simple as a regular grenade lined with a highly radioactive substance, maybe with a protective sandwich-layer (radioactive material sandwiched between an inner and outer lead lining, with explosives inside the shell). The grenade would be more difficult to manufacture, and probably more bulky than a standard grenade, but a pocket dirty bomb doesn't need to be fancy.


True.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
As for a general rule about how long it takes to decay? For something like a grenade, maybe the initial radiation damage could be whatever it is (say, 5D), and each day 1D falls off. Or you could go 1 pip every 8 hours.

How long it lingers depends on a lot of things like how windy it is, luck (radio active decay is random), humidity/ambient static in the air, etc.

But if the intent is to weaponize radioactivity, couldn't the designers deliberately select an isotope with the lowest decay rate in order to make the radioactivity as persistent as possible?

Your "lasts as long as the rest of the gaming session" seems sufficient for gaming purposes, though, and anything that lasts longer than that could simply be inserted by the GM as part of the scenario design.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Naaman wrote:
As for a general rule about how long it takes to decay? For something like a grenade, maybe the initial radiation damage could be whatever it is (say, 5D), and each day 1D falls off. Or you could go 1 pip every 8 hours.

How long it lingers depends on a lot of things like how windy it is, luck (radio active decay is random), humidity/ambient static in the air, etc.

But if the intent is to weaponize radioactivity, couldn't the designers deliberately select an isotope with the lowest decay rate in order to make the radioactivity as persistent as possible?

Your "lasts as long as the rest of the gaming session" seems sufficient for gaming purposes, though, and anything that lasts longer than that could simply be inserted by the GM as part of the scenario design.


I was kind of assuming that they would use something with a stupid-long decay rate (or, low decay likelihood, if we want to get technical).

What I have a problem envisioning is the tiny particles being too much of a thread after being blasted apart initially and then scattered around by wind and such.

One of the things about radiation is that the dose rate seems to decrease exponentially with distance from the source. It's not unreasonable, for example, to reduce dose rate (you might think of it as "exposure" for simplicity's sake) to 1/10th by increasing your distance from the source (say, moving from 1 foot away to 2 feet away from the source, and then to 1/1,000 by moving to 3 feet away). Those numbers are hypothetical, to be sure.

In other words, latent potency is difficult assess (at least with my level of understanding, anyway).
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But that brings up the possibility of selective usage in choke points, especially indoors, where environmental factors won't be pushing the radioactive material to disperse. In fact, I could easily see characters with Demolitions dice selectively choosing where to detonate Rad-bombs for maximum effect and duration. Simply tossing one into the middle of the street would be a waste, but under the right circumstances, this could be a very potent area denial weapon.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a basic chart for initial and cumulative radiation damage:
    Radiation Level = Stun & EMP Damage Inflicted
    Level 1 = 1D/hour + 1D per additional hour
    Level 2 = 1D/10 minutes + 1D per additional 10 minutes
    Level 3 = 1D/minute + 1D per additional minute
    Level 4 = 1D/round + 1D per additional round
    Level 5 = 2D/round + 2D per additional round
    Level 6 = 3D/round + 3D per additional round

Radiation suits would allow characters to reduce their exposure by a number of levels based on the rating of the suit.

Characters would take Stun Damage at the level listed, while droids and other electronics would take permanent Ionization damage (does not roll off, and must be repaired).

In addition, organics would have delayed action results based on how much radiation they were exposed to. This would be similar to the standard Damage Chart, but with results ranging from "-1D to future Strength rolls to resist Radiation Damage" all the way up to "Incapacitated, dead in 1D days."

Treatment is also worth discussing; I know the Medical Sourcebook stated that Bacta can completely cure any radiation exposure, but I find myself wondering if Bacta shouldn't be treated as such a cure-all, and that major exposure to hard radiation should have consequences for the character that never fully go away.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Here's a basic chart for initial and cumulative radiation damage:
    Radiation Level = Stun & EMP Damage Inflicted
    Level 1 = 1D/hour + 1D per additional hour
    Level 2 = 1D/10 minutes + 1D per additional 10 minutes
    Level 3 = 1D/minute + 1D per additional minute
    Level 4 = 1D/round + 1D per additional round
    Level 5 = 2D/round + 2D per additional round
    Level 6 = 3D/round + 3D per additional round

Radiation suits would allow characters to reduce their exposure by a number of levels based on the rating of the suit.

Characters would take Stun Damage at the level listed, while droids and other electronics would take permanent Ionization damage (does not roll off, and must be repaired).

In addition, organics would have delayed action results based on how much radiation they were exposed to. This would be similar to the standard Damage Chart, but with results ranging from "-1D to future Strength rolls to resist Radiation Damage" all the way up to "Incapacitated, dead in 1D days."

Treatment is also worth discussing; I know the Medical Sourcebook stated that Bacta can completely cure any radiation exposure, but I find myself wondering if Bacta shouldn't be treated as such a cure-all, and that major exposure to hard radiation should have consequences for the character that never fully go away.


I would say that bacta can repair any damage caused by radiation. Bacta (if I understand it correctly) literally rebuilds cells and such. Since radiation damage is literally little particles zipping around breaking molecular bonds in organic tissue (that is, "cell damage") it makes sense to me that bacta should be able to fix it.

The only question would be whether the body is able to get rid of the harmful radioactive particles. If not, then regular bacta treatments ought to be able to manage (that is, temporarily eliminate) symptoms.

HOWEVER, if subjected to rapidly lethal doses, the character effectively becomes a life-support case. Unless equipped with a special suit (something like what Darth Vader has, but for obviously different reasons), then the character would be dependent upon the bacta all day, everyday.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a thought...

Perhaps any "stun" penalties from radiation damage should be permanent (until treated), and applied to the character's Strength code for Natural Healing rolls. For instance, if a character with 3D Strength has picked up a -2D Radiation penalty, they can only roll 1D on Natural Healing rolls, and are thus much more likely to not heal, and will eventually worsen and die.

And perhaps with bacta, have it be effective, but require 2x the duration for the wound level indicated.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
For instance, if a character with 3D Strength has picked up a -2D Radiation penalty, they can only roll 1D on Natural Healing rolls, and are thus much more likely to not heal, and will eventually worsen and die.
I like this idea. In fact if I wanted to run something much more realistic and gritty than Star Wars including penalties for wounded and incapacitated characters healing naturally without the benefit of medical assistance makes sense.

Doing that for most NPCs kind of appeals to me. An injured PC will be able to quickly recover from an injury, get out of his sick bed, and do heroic things when anyone else (read any NPC) would still be bedridden.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it would depend on how you want to fit radiation and its effects into your game. I know other game systems have played with how radiation affects healing; in Palladium, for example, non-depleted uranium rounds disrupted supernatural healing abilities.

On a related note, I'm thinking of allowing MedPacs to have a temporary effect, in that they work as described in the rulebook, but the patient's Radiation dice is not reduced, and their condition will continue to worsen. For example, if a character is Wounded by radiation, a successful Medpac use will improve his condition to Stunned, but the Radiation Dice will still penalize his Strength on his next Natural Healing roll, so within a day or two, he will likely revert back to Wounded.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At some point, the character is going to need a permanent solution.

In SW, it seems like the aforementioned bacta suit might be an option.

So also might some kind of force healing.

Any other thoughts?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
At some point, the character is going to need a permanent solution.

Exactly. I figure, every time a Medpac is used on Wounds caused by radiation, it increases the First Aid Difficulty roll by one level the next time you try to use a Medpac. That way, Medpacs can only be a temporary solution until the patient receives either bacta treatment or some other form of advanced medicine.

Quote:
In SW, it seems like the aforementioned bacta suit might be an option.

IIRC, bacta suits were supposed to be the cheaper option to a full-up bacta tank.

Quote:
So also might some kind of force healing.

Considering gaming precedent from other systems, radiation damage could also increase the Difficulty for Accelerate Healing...

Quote:
Any other thoughts?

Currently working on a first draft for a unified rule, but I'm stalled on how to make the transition from short-term Stun Damage to long-term Normal Damage.
_________________
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been working on this off and on, and I think I'm going to drop the initial Stun Damage option because I can't figure out a way to transition from short term Stun to long term Wounded. I'm also thinking of offering a couple longer-term radiation exposure options, such as 1D/day + 1D/additional day, and 1D/4 hours + 1D/additional 4 hours.

I'm also thinking of adding some "Less Than Wounded" type options, where a character takes no immediate damage, but does suffer long-term penalties toward Natural Healing rolls.

So, the Radiation Level chart would look something like so:
    Radiation Level = Damage Inflicted
    Level 1 = 1D/day + 1D per additional day
    Level 2 = 1D/4 hours + 1D per additional 4 hours
    Level 3 = 1D/hour + 1D per additional hour
    Level 4 = 1D/10 minutes + 1D per additional 10 minutes
    Level 5 = 1D/minute + 1D per additional minute
    Level 6 = 1D/round + 1D per additional round
    Level 7 = 2D/round + 2D per additional round
    Level 8 = 3D/round + 3D per additional round

This, IMO, covers a nice span between damage that builds up slowly over a reasonable time period that PCs might encounter in a normal gaming session and lethal hard radiation so intense it can fry an unprotected organic within seconds.

Then there is the long term effects of radiation, which are tacked onto the existing Damage Chart. This is set up so that characters can still experience the effects of radiation even if they don't know they've been exposed. The GM can keep this a secret and reveal it however they deem appropriate.

    Strength >/< Radiation Damage = Long Term Effect (Healing Penalty*)
    -10 to -6 = Exposed, No Damage (-1)
    -5 to -1 = Irradiated, Some Minor Discomfort, but No Damage (-1D)
    0-3 = Stunned (-1D+2)
    4-8 = Wounded (-2D+1)
    9-12 = Incapacitated (-3D)
    13-15 = Incapacitated (-4D)
    16+ Mortally Wounded (N/A)

    * Penalty is permanent and applied to all healing rolls until the character is treated for radiation exposure. Bacta or anti-radiation medicines can completely remove any harmful radioactivity, but are still subject to the Healing Penalty when used to treat Radiation Exposure.


Protection:
Characters may operate without harm (or at least less chance of harm) by wearing appropriate protective clothing and equipment. Protective clothing is rated by how much radiation shielding it provides; for example, a Class 1 Suit will reduce effective Radiation Damage by 1 Level, a Class 2 by 2 Levels, and so on and so forth. Most environmental suits and space suits already provide a degree of radiation protection, as do most suits of enclosed armor. However, augmented suits specially designed for the purpose, as well as massive suits of power armor designed specifically for operating in high radiation zones (such as reactor cores and similar hazardous environments) also exist.

Some Example Protection Levels for Generic Suits and Common Armor Types:
    Class 1:
      Pilot Flight Suit
      Flame-Proof Suit (Fireman's Rig)*
    Class 2:
      Environment Suit, Emergency**
      Space Suit, Emergency**
      Most Types of Stormtrooper Armor
    Class 3:
      Environment Suit, Utility**
      Space Suit, Utility**
    Class 4:
      Environment Suit, Quality**
      Space Suit, Quality**
      Spacetrooper and Radtrooper Armor
    Class 5:
      Heavy Radiation Power Suit***


    *See Star Wars Sourcebook, pg. 100
    **See Adventurer' Journal #2, pgs. 12-14
    *** See Gundark's Fantastic Technology

    Note: All suits rated Class 2 and higher are equipped with an omni-directional radiation detector that informs the wearer of the Radiation Level in their immediate area.

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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