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Gry Sarth
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 Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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#3 is definetly the likeliest scenario by far. We even got a glimpse of it in the Weapons Factory episode, where Ahsoka and Barriss sacrificed themselves to destroy te factory, only they managed to get rescued.
The whole dark side thing... I just don't see it. As for her being killed by one of the villains, it's possible, but I dearly hope it's not Dooku or Grievous. If they did it, it would be weird that Anakin doesn't mention it in his confrontations with them in Ep3. So it could be Ventress or Cad Bane, or someone else like Boba or some new villain.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Turns to the Dark Side and Anakin has to hunt her down. |
I doubt that would happen, but I would love to see that! And he could kill her in anger and rage! It could be another step for Anakin on his own path to the Dark Side and It would be more ironic because Anakin is later hunted down by Obi-Wan for the same reason.
But that's not gonna happen on a cartoon. I guess she may die a hero's death if she sacrifices herself to save millions or something. The martyr resolution could work if done right.
But whatever the resolution, I'm confident from Yoda's foreshadowing that Anakin's ability (or disability) to let go of his attachment will be an issue in the story.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:45 pm Post subject: RE: What ever happens to Ahsoka Tano? |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Turns to the Dark Side and Anakin has to hunt her down. |
What I would rather see is Anakin turned to the Dark Side hunt her down and kill her, and then Ahsoka is never mentioned or referred to in the franchise to again.
Vader: I have you now... Snips.
Ahsoka: Skyg--?
Vader impales Ahsoka. The end.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know why you hate her so much. She's at lost less annoying that Hayden Christiansen's Anakin.
BTW, have anybody seen Season 6 of Clone Wars yet? |
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strongarm85
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Joined: 10 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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I have. Ahsoka makes no appearance in the Clone Wars. She only briefly appears in a vision Yoda, but it isn't a future vision. It was an idealized version of the present where the Sith didn't exist. It was more a trial for Yoda while he was becoming attuned the living force.
Ahsoka is never seen again after the final episode of Season 5 where she left the Jedi Order.
Seeing as how she isn't a Jedi anymore, its entirely conceivable that she's still alive somewhere when Rebels and takes place, so she could make an appearance at some point, or she might not ever be seen again, who knows. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:07 pm Post subject: re: Anakin shouldn't have been given a padawan (ad nauseum) |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Don't know why you hate her so much. She's at lost less annoying that Hayden Christiansen's Anakin. |
Seriously? You don't remember that you were the main person countering my criticism of the Jedi giving Anakin a padawan? I'm sure others are getting tired of my broken record...
I do not have any problem with her species or personality, or the portrayal of her character. I do not find her annoying. I do not hate Ahsoka!
My problem is with Anakin being given a padawan mere weeks after AotC. Even more so, my problem is Anakin even having a padawan at all (in canon equated with film canon). My problem is not with Ahsoka specifically. My problem is Anakin being assigned any padawan. I'd be ok with Ahsoka as a character if she had been someone else's padawan.
I would have thought my position on Ahsoka would be obvious by now.
| Whill wrote: | | ...and then Ahsoka is never mentioned or referred to in the franchise to again. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Your postion on Anakin recieving a padawan is obvious, but your posion on Asohka herself, wasn't...until know. At least not to me.
But LUcason and company were very high handed with plot developments in the prequel on. ROTS fells like a bad GM forcing an outcome against the wishes of the players.
"Okay, Anakin, you attack Master Windu now."
"Wha!? Why would I do that!?!!"
"Becuase you need Palpatine to save Padmen from your bad dream."
"Why do I think he can do that."
"He said that he could, back as that opera thingie, remember?"
"So? He's been lying to me constantly since I was 9 years old. Why, by the Force, should I believe anything he tells me now?"
...and so on. |
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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That's honestly the first time I've heard of that criticism. I thought the seduction of Anakin in RotS was handled excellently, and you really got a sense (over three movies) how Palpatine manipulated Anakin.
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | Your postion on Anakin recieving a padawan is obvious, but your posion on Asohka herself, wasn't...until know. At least not to me. |
My apologies for not making that clear. I wonder how many others here thought I was just an Ahsoka-hater? My only real criticism is her calling her master "Skyguy" (but I think the Snips nickname seems appropriate for her from Anakin). I haven't seen enough episodes of the show to have any more opinions about her.
| DougRed4 wrote: | | That's honestly the first time I've heard of that criticism. I thought the seduction of Anakin in RotS was handled excellently, and you really got a sense (over three movies) how Palpatine manipulated Anakin. |
Regarding Anakin's seduction, I'm somewhere in the middle but closer to Doug. Hayden Christensen performance was a bit lacking at times, but I mainly blame Lucas' general deficiency to direct human actors. (Mark Hamill was almost as bad in the classic trilogy, but so many prequel detractors are blind to it because they see the classic films through the hazy mist of nostalgia and rose-colored glasses.) However some actors rose above Lucas' direction, such as Ian McDiarmid who was always excellent. His performance in RotS with John Williams' haunting score sends shivers up my spine. What a delightfully entertaining being of pure evil Palpatine is.
| atgxtg wrote: | | But LUcason and company were very high handed with plot developments in the prequel on. ROTS fells like a bad GM forcing an outcome against the wishes of the players. |
During the production of RotS (2002-2005), Lucas dictated to publishing that Anakin would not become a Jedi Knight until the last 6 months before RotS takes place. In any EU media at the time there was no mention of Anakin ever having a padawan. In RotS, there was no mention of Anakin ever having a padawan. Then, after his film saga is complete, Lucas envisions a new Clone Wars show and invents T-canon to retcon Star Wars. 3 years of continuity was sent down to the garbage compactor and smashed into one month. Anakin now becomes a Jedi Knight mere weeks after Yoda felt him in such terrible pain across the galaxy. Soon after that Yoda found out about Anakin being plagued by nightmares about the source of his attachment and cause of his fear of loss, before he lost her. And literally a few days after Anakin is promoted, Anakin is assigned his own padawan which he now has for most of the war.
It made a lot more sense the first time. Anakin did have to become a Jedi Knight at some point because the truthful Obi-Wan ghost in RotJ told Luke that Anakin was a Knight. In ANH, Vader said, "When we last met, I was but the learner." Well, Anakin technically couldn't have still been a padawan learner when he last met Obi-Wan because he was a Jedi Knight before he was a Sith, but Vader's statement in ANH in light of Obi-Wan's statements in RotJ make the most sense meaning that Anakin had not been a Jedi Knight for long before his last meeting with Obi-Wan. And Anakin having his own padawan learner for years before his last meeting with Obi-Wan prior to the Death Star makes his statement about being 'but a learner' a nonsensical for Vader to say.
For RotS and the EU at the time, Lucas made the most sensible plot decision regarding Anakin's apprenticeship and knighthood with respect to the previous film films released. Then, as a complete afterthought to his completed film saga, Lucas pushed Anakin's knighthood back 2.5 years to right after the tragedy of AotC, and gave him his own padawan almost immediately. That's what's very heavy handed like a GM forcing an outcome on his players!
That's why I ended my wish for the final fate of Ahsoka, "...and then Ahsoka is never mentioned or referred to in the franchise to again." So we can put this ridiculousness (of Anakin being promoted to Knight too early and having his own padawan for years) behind us.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| DougRed4 wrote: | | That's honestly the first time I've heard of that criticism. I thought the seduction of Anakin in RotS was handled excellently, and you really got a sense (over three movies) how Palpatine manipulated Anakin. |
Really go look at some of the older threads. I found Anakin's downfall rather unconvincing. It wasn't that he turned to evil as much as he simply couldn't face up to the consequences of stopping Windu from killing Palpatine out of hand. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
My apologies for not making that clear. I wonder how many others here thought I was just an Ahsoka-hater? My only real criticism is her calling her master "Skyguy" (but I think the Snips nickname seems appropriate for her from Anakin). I haven't seen enough episodes of the show to have any more opinions about her. |
No problem. I might have missed something in a previous post. I just misunderstood, and thought that you had some objection to the character, as opposed to her status/position.
| Whill wrote: |
Regarding Anakin's seduction, I'm somewhere in the middle but closer to Doug. Hayden Christensen performance was a bit lacking at times, but I mainly blame Lucas' general deficiency to direct human actors. (Mark Hamill was almost as bad in the classic trilogy, but so many prequel detractors are blind to it because they see the classic films through the hazy mist of nostalgia and rose-colored glasses.) However some actors rose above Lucas' direction, such as Ian McDiarmid who was always excellent. His performance in RotS with John Williams' haunting score sends shivers up my spine. What a delightfully entertaining being of pure evil Palpatine is. |
Lucas as a director probably deserves a lot of the blame. As others have mentioned, it's about the only time Natalie Portman looks like she can't act.
I can understand why the older, more experienced actors could rise above the direction, while the younger, inexperienced ones didn't. The older actors don't need as much direction.
| Whill wrote: |
During the production of RotS (2002-2005)... |
I'll skip the last, long quote. I read it, but no sense in reposting it back to you.
One of the things I dislaie about Lucas is that he doesn't know when to leave something alone. He likes to keep fixing things in post production, and that really isn't such a good idea, after a film has been released. Greedo shot first being one of the more objectionable examples.
I wished he'd stop retconning everything. And that those in charge now don't do any more retconning.
As far an Anakin's rise to knighthood goes. I wish he's have remained a Padawan. The impression I got from the OT was that a padawan was especially vulnerable to the Dark Side towards the end of his training, as he coming to terms with his new power. Anakin being especially strong in the Force was also especially sensitive to it. |
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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While I've liked most of the changes (like the improved spfx in the Special Editions), I think you're spot-on about Lucas' constant tinkering and making changes. Ironically, he's one of those against tinkering with old films. I found it amusing, too, to read a couple of days ago him blasting the studios for having no 'imagination' or 'talent' (this from the guy whose idea of direction is to go "faster...more intense"). He's an amazingly talented creator, but does tend to tinker with his stuff too much. Hopefully now that the franchise is in Disney's hands, that will stop.
Also, I find it funny that so many Star Wars fans say "Han shot first!". What would be more accurate would be to say "Han was the only one who shot!" [at, this last comment isn't directed at you, as your statement about Greedo was correct]
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Whill
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | As far an Anakin's rise to knighthood goes. I wish he's have remained a Padawan. The impression I got from the OT was that a padawan was especially vulnerable to the Dark Side towards the end of his training, as he coming to terms with his new power. Anakin being especially strong in the Force was also especially sensitive to it. |
I would have liked that a little better than Anakin ever having his own apprentice, and that would jive with the Vader-Kenobi dialogue in ANH, but Anakin just recently becoming a full-fledged Knight as originally portrayed satisfies the classic references to Anakin being a Jedi Knight, while still being close to the Dark Side danger zone due to his immense power.
Even as a tween boy in 83, I realized Luke's "trial" to becoming a full-fledged Jedi Knight is throwing away his lightsaber in RotJ and not succuming to the Dark Side. Luke ultimately had a similar choice his father had, but choose the other option. Anakin had chosen the Vader over the Skywalker all those years ago. Luke chose the Skywalker instead of the Darth (Jedi over Sith) - "I am a Jedi, like my father before me". Since that choice is the moment Luke became a Jedi Knight, to me Luke's climax is most meaningful in the story if his father had been a full-fledged Knight also, even if not for long before joining the Sith.
So the films really were fine the way they were before TCW mucked it all up.
| atgxtg wrote: | Lucas as a director probably deserves a lot of the blame. As others have mentioned, it's about the only time Natalie Portman looks like she can't act.
I can understand why the older, more experienced actors could rise above the direction, while the younger, inexperienced ones didn't. The older actors don't need as much direction. |
I agree that Natalie Portman was largely lackluster in the prequels. Liam Neeson was excellent. But I can't draw the line on actor performance between actor ages. Samuel Jackson was about 48-54 when he filmed the prequels. He's normally great, but I thought he was horrible in Star Wars. Ewan McGregor was only about 26-32 and he was totally awesome! His prequel performances completely made me believe that he would grow old into Alec Guiness. Thank the Force the prequels at least had Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid!
| atgxtg wrote: | One of the things I dislaie about Lucas is that he doesn't know when to leave something alone. He likes to keep fixing things in post production, and that really isn't such a good idea, after a film has been released. Greedo shot first being one of the more objectionable examples.
I wished he'd stop retconning everything. |
| DougRed4 wrote: | While I've liked most of the changes (like the improved spfx in the Special Editions), I think you're spot-on about Lucas' constant tinkering and making changes... I found it amusing, too, to read a couple of days ago him blasting the studios for having no 'imagination' or 'talent' (this from the guy whose idea of direction is to go "faster...more intense"). He's an amazingly talented creator, but does tend to tinker with his stuff too much...
Also, I find it funny that so many Star Wars fans say "Han shot first!". What would be more accurate would be to say "Han was the only one who shot!" |
Doug, I brought that point a few years ago on the What is your SW Universe? thread. 'Greedo didn't shoot' would be a another more accurate way to describe the original scene. atgxtg, I with you on that change. All versions of ANH are still PG, so Lucas should just let me do my job as a parent and guide my children regarding the moral ambiguity of Solo's character. It's part his character arc to change from mercenary to Rebel hero. If Lucas wanted to make the cantina more appropriate for children, he could have instead removed the completely gratuitous blood splatter from the floor and the severed limb of Ponda Baba.
Other than Greedo and a few "Whatever, George" utterly inconsequential changes (like adding more rocks to Artoo's hiding place in the Jundland Waste), I'm with Doug in being pleased with most of his changes to the films themselves. In fact, if you've read my blu-ray reviews you'll know that I am pretty much the anti-purist in that I have a laundry list of flaws never corrected and things still never updated that should have been.
| atgxtg wrote: | | And that those in charge now don't do any more retconning. |
| DougRed4 wrote: | | Hopefully now that the franchise is in Disney's hands, that will stop. |
But the damage is already done as far as Ahsoka. Disney already made the choice to elevate TCW to film canon, which includes Anakin's nonsensical very early promotion to knighthood and him training his own padawan for years. I can only hope that Disneyfilm just publishes a novel set sometime after RotS to complete her story, kill her off and then move on, never to refer to these things in the new Star Wars films. Have her save a sector, make her a big hero, give her a classy sendoff and let her go out with a bang. Give Ahsoka fans the story and closure they need, I don't care. Just please kill her so she can't show up in the franchise later, and never refer to Anakin ever having a padawan in the new films. That's all I'm asking! In the name of the Force, we pray. Amen.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, Han Shot. Matter of fact the whole point of it was to prevent Greedo from shooting! Han is about to get murdered in cold blood by a gloating Greedo, and so turns the tables on Greedo and blasts him away before he gets to do it to Han. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
I would have liked that a little better than Anakin ever having his own apprentice, and that would jive with the Vader-Kenobi dialogue in ANH, but Anakin just recently becoming a full-fledged Knight as originally portrayed satisfies the classic references to Anakin being a Jedi Knight, while still being close to the Dark Side danger zone due to his immense power. |
I didn't view "jedi Knight" as a rank per sey just that Anakin had been a Jedi- and pupil (Padawan Leader) would have worked for me. Especially since the prequel ended up making just about anything said by Obi-won to have been a lie, omission, or told from " a certain point of view."
| Whill wrote: |
Even as a tween boy in 83, I realized Luke's "trial" to becoming a full-fledged Jedi Knight is throwing away his lightsaber in RotJ and not succuming to the Dark Side. Luke ultimately had a similar choice his father had, but choose the other option. Anakin had chosen the Vader over the Skywalker all those years ago. Luke chose the Skywalker instead of the Darth (Jedi over Sith) - |
Yeah, that's just it. I considered Luke's refusal of the Emperor/Dark Side was what made hima Jedi and really what puts him beyond corruption.
But then, I felt that Jedi really wen't supposed to turn. It was those learning to become Jedi who were susceptible tot he Dark Side. But the EU and prequels didn't go in that direction.
| Whill wrote: |
"I am a Jedi, like my father before me". Since that choice is the moment Luke became a Jedi Knight, to me Luke's climax is most meaningful in the story if his father had been a full-fledged Knight also, even if not for long before joining the Sith. |
I find Luke statement to be more wishful thinking. We (and he) knows better. It would have killed the mood but Palpatine could have gotten a great laugh from the audience if he replied, "Yes, that's what I've been banking on. So when do you want to pick up your red saber?"
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So the films really were fine the way they were before TCW mucked it all up. |
The OT was fine before the prequels mucked it all up, too. In fact the pequels mucked it up worse than TCW have. Most of TCW is decent, with good acting, which is more than can be said for the prequels. |
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