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Bren
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 Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Lets look at it.
Someone with Rebel Spec force martial arts, using the Kick Maneuver does Str+2d damage. When they use a Spinning kick it adds another D. So a bounty hunter in the rebellion who learned RSFMA would do 3d+2 (str) +2d (kick) +1d (Spin kick bonus) for 6d+2 damage. 9d+4 damage on a force point. A wookie would do 13D. |
Almost makes you wonder why anyone carries a blaster, knife, or axe doesn't it. 
I'm not sure of a good solution though and the rules do simulate the movies fairly well. Blaster vs. PCs don't do much damage in the movies. In the OT I can only recall two hits, both in Return of the Jedi.
1) Luke gets hit on Jabba's sail barge, result appears to be a stun and some cosmetic damgage to the artificial hand.
2) Leia gets shot outside the bunker on Endor, result appears to be Woundedx1.
This isn't far off of what we see for PCs in the RAW.
Lightsabers appear more deadly in the movies.
1) Obi-wan killed by a LS (ANH).
2) Luke woundedx2, maimed, loses hand (ESB).
3) Qui-gon Jinn killed (TPM).
4) Obi-wan wounded or woundedx2 (AOTC).
5) Anakin maimed, loses hand and lower forearm (AOTC same battle).
6) Obi-wan wounded or woundedx2 on bridge at start of ROTS.
7) Anakin maimed a lot at end of ROTS.
And this is also what we see for mid to high level Jedi in the RAW.
In the movies we see Chewie doing some brawling damage and we see Han knock out the scout trooper on Hoth. I guess maybe Han had martial arts. 
We also see Jedi like Obi-wan and Sith like Darth Maul doing kicks, but those never appear to do more than stun/knockdown/knockback damage.
I think a big part of the rationale for the amazing brawling damage in the RAW is the statement in ANH that Wookiees can pull arms off combined with the way we see Chewie toss around a stormtrooper or two in the films.
I don't have my rules in front of me, but one thought is that for brawling damage, full damage can only do at most stun damage. One then looks at 1/2 the brawling damage to see if a wound or higher is done. For example, the Rebel Spec Force trooper you mentioned above, does 6D+2 damage (average roll 23 points). Compare that to the target's strength roll. Here I assume a RAW average stormtrooper with STR 2D plus 2D physical protection. Average roll 14 points. According to the current rules, 23 points would do 9 pts which I think is incapacitated.
With the modification we look at half the damage 23/2 = 12 points and compare to the roll of STR+armor of 14 points. Not enough damage for a wound. Now compare the full damage of 23 and we see that the target is stunned.
Same example, but suppose the damage and resistance rolls are 28 pts and 10 points. Half the damage is 14 points, comparing that to 10 points gives -4 so the target is wounded.
This makes it just as easy to do some (stun) damage. But much harder to do actual injuries. But repeated beating is likely to eventually result in serious injuries.
Pro - it prevents hand-to-hand attacks from being deadlier than blasters.
Pro - it allows hand-to-hand attacks to still have a chance to do something (stun) to targets.
Pro - it should allow for great cinematic bar fights than generally knock characters out without killing them. And when the stun wears off they wake up just about as good as new, just like on TV and in the movies.
Pro/Con - it will make it much harder for Wookiees to pull off someone's arm.
Con - it requires division by 2 and comparison of both the before and after division damage rolls to the target's resistance.
So what do you all think? |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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hows about each m.art maneuver do a 'set' damage level. Such as punches are stun, kicks are wounds, and so on, with a soak roll to attempt to negate/reduce it?
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | hows about each m.art maneuver do a 'set' damage level. Such as punches are stun, kicks are wounds, and so on, with a soak roll to attempt to negate/reduce it? |
garhkal, I think that approach could work. Since iir you are already using martial arts with listed maneuvers all you need to do is add the damage caps.
I won't use it because it is too much complexity for what I want to run. I like keeping the rules pretty simple, most of my players prefer rules that are even simpler than pretty simple. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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This might help.
FOr the dueling rules I'm working on, I tied the damage inflcited to the sucess level of the attack,. For example, a (Swung) lightsaber does 3D damage per success level.
Something like that could work for martial arts. Minor hits would do little damage, but potentially lethal strikes would be possible to those who achieve a high margin of success. Maybe 1D damage per SL would work. Special Martial Arts strikes might add extra dice, or some special effect. |
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Bren
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | FOr the dueling rules I'm working on, I tied the damage inflcited to the sucess level of the attack,. For example, a (Swung) lightsaber does 3D damage per success level. |
atgxtg, are you planning on posting your dueling rules in the House Rules thread? |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | This might help.
FOr the dueling rules I'm working on, I tied the damage inflcited to the sucess level of the attack,. For example, a (Swung) lightsaber does 3D damage per success level.
Something like that could work for martial arts. Minor hits would do little damage, but potentially lethal strikes would be possible to those who achieve a high margin of success. Maybe 1D damage per SL would work. Special Martial Arts strikes might add extra dice, or some special effect. |
I went another way around the problem. I see the damage of the weapon as the force/energy of the weapon. This more or less stays the same. The success rate however gives us the maximum damage level a hit can achieve on the target. No matter how hard you hit, if you only score a glancing blow the target will probably only end up wounded.
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Bren
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: |
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I just had a new idea for how to approach this issue. Well I think it is a new idea as I don't recall seeing exactly this before. This might work for martial arts / brawling damage as well.
It is over on the House Rules. I'd be interested in seeing other folk's ideas.
http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3185 |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | atgxtg wrote: | | FOr the dueling rules I'm working on, I tied the damage inflcited to the sucess level of the attack,. For example, a (Swung) lightsaber does 3D damage per success level. |
atgxtg, are you planning on posting your dueling rules in the House Rules thread? |
I'll eventually make them aviable, probably as a downloadable PDF.
FOr the most part they expand upon the dueiling blades variant. THere is a thread on it flating around.
Basically, both compantats pick a maneuver (slash, thrust, disarm, swordplay, etc,) and then roll skill. THe winner getsa result based upon his margin of success. SO if you just beat the other guy by a point or two, you only get a glacing blow, or minor advatnage, while if you beat him by 20 or more, you get a strong hit.
Characters can pull off combo moves, breaking up thier success level between two or more maneuvers. For example, someone could combine swordplay to gain a temporary advantage with a thrust.
Each lightsaber form favors certain maneuvers, bumping up the SL when they are performed. Thus Form II:Makashi practioners would be able to bump up thier thrust attacks by 1 SL.
Iam going to playtrest this once my PCs are skilled enough to reliably get lightsaber combat up.
I only mentioned the dueling variant here becuase the damage method might be a good option for martial arts. It oleaves the door open for some high damage strikes, while the SL requirments enusre that most unarmed strikes are less lethal than attacks with weapons. |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
I went another way around the problem. I see the damage of the weapon as the force/energy of the weapon. This more or less stays the same. The success rate however gives us the maximum damage level a hit can achieve on the target. No matter how hard you hit, if you only score a glancing blow the target will probably only end up wounded. |
That is interesting. Just how did you set the cap? I might want to swipe that for the duelsing variant. |
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| atgxtg wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: |
I went another way around the problem. I see the damage of the weapon as the force/energy of the weapon. This more or less stays the same. The success rate however gives us the maximum damage level a hit can achieve on the target. No matter how hard you hit, if you only score a glancing blow the target will probably only end up wounded. |
That is interesting. Just how did you set the cap? I might want to swipe that for the duelsing variant. |
Sorry, dont have the rules with me. The general idea is..
Attackers attack roll minus Defenders defence roll:
0-1: Weapon 'lock' (until 1 wins push or disengages)
2-4: Draw
5-8: Advantage (winner +1D next round).
9-12: Light Hit (-1D, max lvl wounded)
13-16: Solid Hit (max lvl Incap.)
17+: Heavy Hit (no max lvl).
The actual numbers are just examples not the exact one I use which I dont recall exactly. The lower numbers should be mostly correct, but the higher ones Im not sure about.
I am thinking of adding a list of negative results as well. This would mean that if you make a really bad attack, the defending opponent might get an advantage.
This is supposed to interact with different 'stances' (defensive, all out, Riposte, etc). These will give bonuses and penalties to the different rolls. A 'Defensive Stance, might for example give you a +2D to Defence but a -2D to Attack. 'All Out' will give you an Attack and Damage bonus, but will leave you with very little defence. A 'Riposte' might mean a penalty to attack but if your opponent gets a negative score on the above table you get a 'free' attack in. This also lends itself to include the different 'lightsaber style' actions.
This is still under construction, but isnt neccessary for the basic rules to work.
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="ZzaphodD"][quote="atgxtg"] | ZzaphodD wrote: |
Sorry, dont have the rules with me. The general idea is.. |
That is rreally all I needed to see, thanks.
. |
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Esoomian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | Sorry, dont have the rules with me. The general idea is..
Attackers attack roll minus Defenders defence roll:
0-1: Weapon 'lock' (until 1 wins push or disengages)
2-4: Draw
5-8: Advantage (winner +1D next round).
9-12: Light Hit (-1D, max lvl wounded)
13-16: Solid Hit (max lvl Incap.)
17+: Heavy Hit (no max lvl). |
Is there any way with the dueling blades sytem that both parties can have a successful attack and both damage each other?
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | Sorry, dont have the rules with me. The general idea is..
Attackers attack roll minus Defenders defence roll:
0-1: Weapon 'lock' (until 1 wins push or disengages)
2-4: Draw
5-8: Advantage (winner +1D next round).
9-12: Light Hit (-1D, max lvl wounded)
13-16: Solid Hit (max lvl Incap.)
17+: Heavy Hit (no max lvl). |
Is there any way with the dueling blades sytem that both parties can have a successful attack and both damage each other? |
No, but if you look above you will see that both combatants both roll an attack roll and a defence roll. In Duelling Blades the combatants just roll a single roll each round which determines the outcome. I felt that the DB system was too simple, with little tactical choices. I wanted combatants to be able to chose between a few basic tactics, translated into the 'stances' I mention above. This also means the introduction of both an attack and a defence roll, which means that both can hit (or get another result) in a single round.
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Bren
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | The general idea is..
Attackers attack roll minus Defenders defence roll:
0-1: Weapon 'lock' (until 1 wins push or disengages)
2-4: Draw
5-8: Advantage (winner +1D next round).
9-12: Light Hit (-1D, max lvl wounded)
13-16: Solid Hit (max lvl Incap.)
17+: Heavy Hit (no max lvl).
The actual numbers are just examples not the exact one I use which I dont recall exactly. The lower numbers should be mostly correct, but the higher ones Im not sure about.
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Hmmm...Interesting. This might be a nice way to make duels (melee or LS) last longer while appearing cinematic. Thanks ZzaphodD! |
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atgxtg
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Esoomian wrote: |
Is there any way with the dueling blades sytem that both parties can have a successful attack and both damage each other? |
No, since the system uses an opposed roll.
In theory it could happen in my variant though, since technically a tied roll would mean both succeed (you have to equal or exceed the target number). If the combantants were doing maneuvers that were favored by thier fighting style/lightsaber form, they could technically both hit for a weak strike.
Since my rule for pressing/advancing/agressive fighting bumbs the SL up for the winner (no matter who), I suppose two guys fighting agressively could both his for a moderate strike (up to 9D with lightsaber) if they both tied.
But I expect most PCs would spend a CP to avoid the tie. |
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