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Additional Scale
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Feyladil
Ensign
Ensign


Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Aachen, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:06 am    Post subject: Additional Scale Reply with quote

Remember the scene in Episode IV where the Millenium Falcon was attacked by TIE-fighters? Those TIE's easily outmaneuvered Han's vessel!

I always wondered how that could be, 'cause in the rules it says that the MilFal's got a maneuverability of 3D and a TIE/In only has 2D. On the other hand it sounds logical for me that a starfighter is of course more agile than a ship of a frighter's size.

That's why I added an additional scale to the game - the "Space Transport" scale.

Character: -
Speeder: 2D
Walker: 4D
Starfighter: 6D
Space Transport: 9D
Capital: 12D
Death Star: 24D

All ships that originally used the "starfighter" scale but are no starfighters at all now use the "space transport" scale. So in general one could say that all stock frighters belong to it with a few exceptions though (the Pathfinder for example).

I found that scale very practical as it makes space combat much more interesting. Those big differerences between starfighters and space transports as well between capital ships and space transports no longer exist.

Cheers
Sven
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Scrawprin
Jedi


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 150
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent idea!
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Ray
Commodore
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Joined: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 1531
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, North America, Western Hemisphere, Earth, Sol, Western Arm, Milky Way

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An excellant idea...

But also take into consideration that the Falcon was in the middle of a full overhaul... None of it's systems were really working all that well at the time, and they were rushed to get it up and flying. (Good thing Han decided to leave earily, or else they might have been captured earilier).

I highly doubt that the Hyperdrive was the only unit not working correctly on her...
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Ragnar
Commander
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Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 371
Location: Vacaville, CA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing also to consider is that Han is a hella better pilot than the "average" TIE pilot... it doesn't surprise me that he could out pilot them.
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Esoomian
High Admiral
High Admiral


Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6175
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool idea but I think I'm with Ray on this one. The Falcon is an amazing ship... When it's working properly. But when you're a smuggler you're income is far from steady and you can't always maintain a ship as well as you'd like
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Loc Taal
Grand Master (Admin Emeritus)


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 805

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea. I think starfighters are inherently more maneuverable than space transports, just because they're smaller.
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Feyladil
Ensign
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Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Aachen, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was one more reason for me to introduce this scale. With the original rules a player's ship normally will be of "starfighter" scale. No what when it comes to a fight with a "capital" scale ship?

IMO this is an endless story. The player's shot at the capital ship. They'll hit because they get a +6D to their "starship gunnery" skill. At the same time they have almost no chance to do any harm on their oppenent's vessel (it get's +6D to hull) - even if it's a harmless frighter with 1D hull!
On the other hand the capital ship isn't likely to hit the player's ship as it gets +6D to maneuverability. And so on...

In some way that's understandable, because I think that the scale modifier reflects the larger size and the mass of the capital ship. It simply can withstand more hits although its hull may be made out of the same material as that from a smaller ship. In return the player's ship is smaller and has less mass - that's why it can escape hits more easily than a capital ship.

And that's exactly the same when you compare stock frighters and starfighters. The frighter is larger and thus can withstand more hits, the fighter is more maneuerable due to his little mass.

In game terms there's now only a 3D difference where before it was 6D. IMO this makes the game more practicable and fluent. Wink

Cheers
Sven
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Esoomian
High Admiral
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6175
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good.

How does this work with things like photon torpedos? Surely they do the same damage when fired from a freighter as they do when fired from a starfighter.
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Halda
Cadet
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feyladil wrote:
IMO this is an endless story. The player's shot at the capital ship. They'll hit because they get a +6D to their "starship gunnery" skill. At the same time they have almost no chance to do any harm on their oppenent's vessel (it get's +6D to hull) - even if it's a harmless frighter with 1D hull!


I believe that the pirates and privateers book has rules for targeting systems on ships. This can get around the damage problem. You could also give bonus for damage to certain systems (higher hit difficulty, more damage). This would be simpler.

Feyladil wrote:
On the other hand the capital ship isn't likely to hit the player's ship as it gets +6D to maneuverability. And so on...


True but most capital scale ships have more weapons. Odds are that one or two will hit.

All that siad I do think it is an intersting idea, I just think that it may add more complexity where it is not needed.
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Feyladil
Ensign
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Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Aachen, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halda wrote:

I believe that the pirates and privateers book has rules for targeting systems on ships. This can get around the damage problem. You could also give bonus for damage to certain systems (higher hit difficulty, more damage). This would be simpler.


*s* Well, there was no "pirates and privateers" when I first used that rule. Wink I've got that book now. However I try not to use those special rules presented there. Only if one of player's demands it and there's a need for it - for example destroy a ship's hyperdrive.

Halda wrote:
True but most capital scale ships have more weapons. Odds are that one or two will hit.


Sure, but the point is - I wanted to give the players a chance to deal some damage to a capital ship. Call it luck, but it should be possible. Very Happy

Halda wrote:
All that said I do think it is an intersting idea, I just think that it may add more complexity where it is not needed.


It worked good for me - but of course it always depends on a gaming group's specific needs and wishes. That's why this is a house rule. Wink

Cheers
Sven
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Hellstorm
Commander
Commander


Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 254
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
Sounds good.

How does this work with things like photon torpedos? Surely they do the same damage when fired from a freighter as they do when fired from a starfighter.


I can't imagine why they wouldn't 8)
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Son of Fire
Captain
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Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 560
Location: Rose City Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems kosher to me.
But thatís probably not that surprising considering how much tweaking I do.
Wink
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Crell Damar
Line Captain
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 846

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try out the scale rules when I get back to my game Smile
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Esoomian
High Admiral
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Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 6175
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellstorm wrote:
Esoomian wrote:
Sounds good.

How does this work with things like photon torpedos? Surely they do the same damage when fired from a freighter as they do when fired from a starfighter.


I can't imagine why they wouldn't 8)


When firing torps at a capital ship from an x-wing the capital ship gets additional dice to soak the damage due to the scale difference. But with a new scale that would in theory mean that torps fired from a freighter would have a different scale to torps fired from a starfighter.

So which would be used? It doesn't make sense to have the torps do different damage as they are the same regardless of what is firing them...
Would they use strafighter or freighter scale damage?
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Halda
Cadet
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Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Esoomian wrote:
So which would be used? It doesn't make sense to have the torps do different damage as they are the same regardless of what is firing them...
Would they use strafighter or freighter scale damage?


I think this is a problem with this rule. By and large space transports mount starfighter weaponry. Those that done mount capital scale weaponry (for examples see the Blastboat and the Gamma class shuttle). There is no reason (other than power output) that a space transport cannot mount a capital scale weapon.

In regards to maneuverability any time that a TIE has out-maneuvered the Falcon Han has either a) not been at the controls or b) the falcon was obviously damaged (he was giving it an overhall at the start of Empire). Game stat wise most fighters have more maneuverability dice then space transports, and pilot skill wise for normal people (not PCs or important NPCs) fighter pilots are usually higher.

Anyway just my 2 cents.
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