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Starship Factory Upgrades
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Raven Redstar
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
These are either already covered or are combinations of things already covered.


True, but not every model of freighter has a numerical designation, or even a long enough number which you can apply your initial suggestion.

Quote:
I'm aware of this one, but I don't see how it transfers over to D6. All it does (IIRC) is increase Crew Quality, but WEG doesn't have an equivalent to that stat.


It makes everything nicer, I would also expect that the foodstuffs part of consumables would be more expensive to restock. It may not have a statistical bonus, but it's a package that some people would want. Arrogant Noble, Senatorial, Corporate Exec, etc...

Quote:
That starts to get crazy, though. A fully decked out YT-1300 would technically be a YT-1318RSMPUEDNATand I've lost track of all the letters we've used so far...


At that point, you could just call it "Fully Loaded", but the ridiculously long letter designation could be part of the fun. Just imagine someone looking at the flashy manufacturer decal on the outside of the ship trying to figure out what the long string of letters at the end meant. Laughing

We can be lighthearted on occasion.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the discussion so far, here is an updated version of the original rule posted above:

    YT-Series

      Models:
      The YT-1300 is one of the most widespread light freighters, but most people do not realize that the YT-1300 series is composed of several subgroups. There are three standard models, the basic YT-1200, the standard YT-1300 and the deluxe YT-1400.

        YT-1200
        The model 1200 was designed as an economy model freighter. It lacks the bow mandibles, but has instead a small boom extension forward. This makes it a cramped design that lacks space for upgrading, as much of the ship's systems located in the mandibles had to be relocated into the ship's main hull. It was not a very popular ship and the production was curtailed after only a relatively small number had been built.
        Cost: 75,000 Credits (New); 18,000 Credits (Used)
        Length: 26.7 meters
        Cargo Capacity: 80 metric tons

        YT-1300
        The model 1300 became such a sales success that it is still in limited production today! It has the trademark most people associate with the YT-series, namely the bow mandibles, and is a common sight in space ports.
        Cost: 100,000 Credits (New); 25,000 Credits (Used)
        Length: 35 meters
        Cargo Capacity: 100 metric tons

        YT-1400
        The model 1400 is basically a model 1300 with the empty space between the bow mandibles filled with a pressurized cargo hold, configured to take maximum 60 ton of extra cargo.
        Cost: 125,000 Credits (New); 32,000 Credits (Used)
        Length: 35 meters
        Cargo Capacity: 160 metric tons

      Sub-Types:
      The three models can be configured during construction to different standards regarding their maneuverability and the placement of the command pod. These modifications to the basic design do not warrant any mishap modifiers since the ships are built to take them as standard.

        Cockpit Position (YT-xx#x)
        The third digit in the ship's class number refers to the positioning of the cockpit. While some ships may actually mount multiple cockpit pods, only of these will be the actual cockpit; the others will be used as vehicle bays, equipment housings, or as additional cargo storage.

          xx1x
          Cockpit Placement: Starboard Side
          Cost: No additional cost
          xx2x
          Cockpit Placement: Port Side
          Cost: No additional cost
          xx3x
          Cockpit Placement: Center Line
          Cost: +10,000 Credits (New), +2,000 Credits (Used)
          Note: The YT-1400 can not be fitted with a Center-Line cockpit due to the bow cargo hold.
          xx4x
          Cockpit Placement: Dorsal (on top of the ship, in place of the dorsal laser turret).
          Cost: +10,000 Credits (New), +2,000 Credits (Used)

        Drive (YT-xxx#)
        The YT-Series can be fitted with a combination of different drives, both sublight and hyperdrive.

          Sublight Drives
          Standard
          Space: 4
          Atmosphere: 280; 800kph
          Weight: No Change
          Cost: No Additional Cost
          Power
          Space: 5
          Atmosphere: 295; 850kph
          Weight: -1 metric ton from Cargo Capacity
          Cost: 5,000 credits
          Courier
          Space: 6
          Atmosphere: 330; 950kph
          Weight: -2 metric tons from Cargo Capacity
          Cost: 10,000 credits

          Hyperdrive
          Standard
          Hyperdrive Multiplier: x2
          Weight: No Change
          Cost:No Additional Cost
          Traveler
          Hyperdrive Multiplier: x 1.5
          Weight: -2 metric tons from Cargo Capacity
          Cost: 2,500 credits
          Courier
          Hyperdrive Multiplier: x1
          Weight: -4 metric tons from Cargo Capacity
          Cost: 5,000 credits (Availability F)

          Model Number Codes
          xxx1 = Standard Sublight, Standard Hyperdrive
          xxx2 = Power Sublight, Standard Hyperdrive
          xxx3 = Courier Sublight, Standard Hyperdrive
          xxx4 = Standard Sublight, Traveler Hyperdrive
          xxx5 = Power Sublight, Traveler Hyperdrive
          xxx6 = Courier Sublight, Traveler Hyperdrive
          xxx7 = Standard Sublight, Courier Hyperdrive
          xxx8 = Power Sublight, Courier Hyperdrive
          xxx9 = Courier Sublight, Courier Hyperdrive



      Packages:

        H (Reinforced Hull)
        Uses a heavier alloy for the hull plating and internal framework, as well as enhanced inertial compensators.
        Hull: +1D
        Cost: 15,000 Credits.

        D (Defense)
        Shields: 1D
        Weapons: Increase # of Laser Cannon to 2
        Cost: 15,000 credits (Availability: F)
        Weight: 8 metric tons

        U (Utility)
        Tractor Beam and Universal Docking Collar.
        Fire Control: 2D
        Range:
        --Space: 1-2/5/10
        --Atmosphere: 100m-200m/500m/1km
        Strength: 3D
        Cost: 10,000 credits
        Weight: 5 metric tons
        Note: See Pirates & Privateers for details on Universal Docking Collar.

        P (Performance)
        Maneuverability: 1D
        Cost: +15,000 Credits (New), +5000 Credits (Used)

        T (Thrust)
        Effect: May trade 1 SU of Space for an additional 20 metric tons of cargo capacity.
        Cost: None if New. 2,000 credits per SU on Used Ships

        S (Scout)
        Improved Sensor Suite
        Sensors:
        Passive 15/1D
        Scan 35/1D+2
        Search 60/2D+1
        Focus 3/3D
        Cost: 5% of base cost
        Weight: 5 metric tons

        N (Navigation)
        Enhanced Navcomputer
        Effect: -5 to all Astrogation Difficulties
        Cost: 2,000 credits

        A (Autopilot)
        Crew: 1 & 2 Gunners (Ship may also fly itself at 4D Space Transports)
        Cost: 2,000 credits

        M (Multiple Cockpit Pods)
        One serves as the command pod, the other(s) is empty space (must be designated during construction). Additional pod often used for special environment cargos or vehicle parking for speeder bikes or EVA equipment.
        Weight: Add 10 tons to Cargo Capacity
        Cost: +7% of base cost

        E (Extended Range)
        Fitted with long range consumable tanks and better recycling systems.
        Consumables: 4 months
        Weight: 8 metric tons
        Cost: 3% of base cost.

        X (External Cargo Pods)
        Mounting points for detachable cargo pods. The pods fit over the dorsal curve of the saucer section, and allow the ship to carry a lot more cargo. They cannot be accessed from inside the hull. With a crane or tractor facility, the pods may be mounted or removed in approximately twenty minutes.
        Cargo Capacity: Increased by 100 metric tons (50 cubic meters)
        Cost: 2% of base cost. (A full set of cargo pods costs 5,000 credits, with an Availability of 1)
        Penalties: If carrying cargo in external pods, the ship suffers a penalty of -1 Space and -1D Maneuverability.

      The replacement of the standard systems with improved ones does not change the model number, which means that there are countless variations of these three models out in the galaxy.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven Redstar wrote:
It makes everything nicer, I would also expect that the foodstuffs part of consumables would be more expensive to restock. It may not have a statistical bonus, but it's a package that some people would want. Arrogant Noble, Senatorial, Corporate Exec, etc...

But again, how would that affect the actual stats? It's all fine and dandy to have some fluff written up about how luxurious and well appointed a ship is, but unless that has some concrete effect on the stats, why write up a rule for it?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, starting with a Stock YT-1300, new from the dealer, at 100,000 credits and working our way down the List:

    Let's say a character with money to spare walks into his local CEC dealership. He tells the dealer that he's looking for a YT-1300 configured as a Long Range Armed Scout, but still wants to be able to haul cargo if needs be, and wants to be able to operate the ship by himself if he has to. He also wants the center line cockpit for spatial awareness reasons.

    Cockpit Position: Center Line (YT-1330; 10,000 credits)
    Drive: Courier Package (YT-1339; 15,000 credits; -6 metric tons
    Reinforced Hull (15,000 credits)
    Defense (8,000 credits; -8 metric tons)
    Utility (10,000 credits; -5 metric tons)
    Performance (15,000 credits)
    Scout (20,000 credits ; -5 metric tons)
    Navigation (2,000 credits)
    Autopilot (2,000 credits)
    Extended Range (3,000 credits; -8 metric tons)
    External Cargo Pod Mounts (2,000 credits)

    Total: 202,000 credits, plus the Fees for the Defense Package and the Courier Hyperdrive

The result is a the following stat:

    Scale: Starship (+6D)
    Length: 37.4 meters
    Skill: Starship Piloting: YT-1300
    Crew: 1 & 2 Gunners (Autopilot: Space Transports 4D)
    Crew Skill: Varies Tremendously
    Passengers: 6
    Cargo Capacity: 68 metric tons
    -Mounting Brackets for External Cargo Pods
    Consumables: 4 months
    Cost: 202,000 credits
    Hyperdrive Multiplier: x1
    Hyperdrive Backup: x12
    Nav Computer: Yes (-5 to All Astrogation Difficulties)
    Maneuverability: 1D
    Space: 6
    Atmosphere: 330; 950 kph
    Hull: 5D
    Shields: 1D
    Sensors:
    Passive 15/1D
    Scan 35/1D+2
    Search 60/2D+1
    Focus 3/3D
    Weapons:
    2 Laser Cannon
    Fire Arc: Turret (1 top, 1 bottom)
    Crew: 1 each
    Skill: Starship Gunnery
    Fire Control: 2D
    Range:
    --Space: 1-3/12/25
    --Orbital: 2km-6km/24km/50km
    --Atmosphere: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
    Damage: 4D
    1 Tractor Beam Projector (Retractable)
    Fire Arc: Turret
    Crew: 1 (Pilot)
    Skill: Starship Gunnery
    Fire Control: 2D
    Range:
    --Space: 1-2/5/10
    --Atmosphere: 100m-200m/500m
    Strength: 3D

So the result is a modestly improved ship (by the standards of some of the highly modified ships out there) that isn't prone to the sorts of mishaps found in do-it-yourself or outlaw tech mods, and is actually still covered by the CEC warranty.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
YT-Series

Models:
The YT-1300 is one of the most widespread light freighters, but most people do not realize that the YT-1300 series is composed of several subgroups. There are three standard models, the basic YT-1200, the standard YT-1300 and the deluxe YT-1400.[list]
YT-1200
The model 1200 was designed as an economy model freighter. It lacks the bow mandibles, but has instead a small boom extension forward. This makes it a cramped design that lacks space for upgrading, as much of the ship's systems located in the mandibles had to be relocated into the ship's main hull. It was not a very popular ship and the production was curtailed after only a relatively small number had been built.
Cost: 75,000 Credits (New); 18,000 Credits (Used)
Length: 26.7 meters
Cargo Capacity: 80 metric tons
...

How does this YT-1200 relate to the WEG/EU YT-1200? Is that ship just one variation in your system?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
How does this YT-1200 relate to the WEG/EU YT-1200? Is that ship just one variation in your system?

That's the theory that was proposed in the original rule, that the YT-1200, 1300 and 1400 were all based on the same basic saucer hull, and that the main differences were what was done with the bow section. With the YT-1200, it's a loading boom and sensor pod; with the YT-1300, it's the classic mandibles from the Millennium Falcon; and with the 1400, the gap between the bow mandibles is filled in with extra cargo space, ala the Solar Flare (Tramp Freighters, pg. 88)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since Raven has mentioned the Luxury Upgrade, I thought I'd post the rule in its entirety, as copied from the D20 Saga book Starships of the Galaxy:
    Luxury Upgrade
    A luxury upgrade is a shipwide increase in the quality of a starship's accomodations. Panes of calming colors, stylish trim, and quality artwork cover bulkhead walls and access panels. Bunks and stowage lockers are replaced with comfortable beds and wooden wardrobes. Lounges are upgraded with recliners, desks and multipurpose game boards. Music systems are installed throughout the ship, and food preparation areas are adapted to allow gourmet cooking and fresh food storage.

    A Basic Luxury Upgrade shanges a starship from a harsh travel vehicle to a comfortable home on the move. An Advanced Luxury Upgrade goes a step farther, making the ship the equivalent of an upper-scale hotel. An Extreme Luxury Upgrade turns a starship into a palace in space, fit for emperors and lords of industry. So satisfying is life on a ship with an Extreme Luxury Upgrade that the crew quality of the ship increases by one step (maximum of Expert), though this has no effect on the statistics of a crew of heroes.

    To maintain such luxury is not cheap, requiring 1/50 (2%) of the cost of the upgrade each month to keep the music current, quality foods stored and worn pillows replaced. After any month when this expense is not paid, the Luxury Level of the ship is reduced one step (Extreme to Advanced, Advanced to Basic, Basic to Typical Starship) until proper upgrading is again established (including recouping the cost of all missed months of maintenance).

    Cost:
      Basic = 10,000 credits base (1 emplacement point)
      Advanced = 20,000 credits base (1 emplacement point)
      Extreme = 50,000 credits base (1 emplacement point)
I can see this being a fun upgrade for a group's ship, and it also allows for a bit more nuance than the cargo capacity / passengers dichotomy presented in Tramp Freighters, especially for the Baudo-Class Star Yacht "Gilded Lily." The ship's description states that the owner "converted her expensive space yacht into a light freighter," but the "stock" stats of the Baudo simply reduce the cargo capacity and double the passengers. However, it's far more likely that an "expensive space yacht" would've been equipped with luxury accomodations like those described above than additional bunks.

What I'm wondering is, what are some practical applications of a luxury upgrade? What concrete effect on stats and gameplay could be factored in that would make this upgrade worth the expense in a game setting?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple possibilities:

    -A bonus to Persuasion rolls made by characters against guests who come on board the ship, whether this is the result of someone being impressed by the luxury or someone in an official capacity being more easily convinced that someone this rich couldn't possibly be involved in something illegal.

    -A bonus to CP awards for time spent aboard ship between missions, owing to the luxuriousness of having one's physical needs met makes it easier to focus on training.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning the item restriction of the Courier type Hyperdrive, since it's a Class One hyperdrive, I'm trying to remember if during the Rise of the Empire and Classic/Rebellion Eras if Class One drives are regulated in any way by the Empire. I recall a passage somewhere in one of the D6 books that Imperial inspectors tend to be suspicious of civilian owners of ships with Class One hyperdrives, even though they're not technically illegal. I'm wondering if this would change the item restriction of the Courier hyperdrive from F to R. So far, my research suggests not, but can anyone confirm this?

EDIT: Ok, just found it, the relevant passage is on page 39 of GG 6: Tramp Freighters. Class One hyperdrives are indeed legal, but as previously stated, Imperial customs inspectors don't approve of civilians having them and won't hesitate to make life very uncomfortable for said civilians, especially if they don't have the required permit. So while the item restriction is indeed justified as F, the fee for the permit costs 5,000 credits and even then, some Imp customs officials won't hesitate to squeeze people for bribes if they find a Class One hyperdrive on their light freighter. So having that Class One hyperdrive is not going to be a one time cost if you're constantly passing through Imperial Customs checkpoints...
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be the Tramp Freighters guide's description of x1 Hyperdrives. It says thusly:
    This level of hyperdrive is probably the fastest type of star drive that the average tramp freighter will have, unless the owner is fortunate enough to locate a military hyperdrive (and can afford the enormous cost of installing it). They are legal, but Imperial Customs officials will probably make life difficult on anyone with a ship that fast ("Why do you need something that fast... if I didn't know better, I'd say you were probably a smuggler").

    Operating a vessel rated for this speed without the proper documentation (and the 5,000 credit permit) is punishable under Imperial law, and penalties include stiff fines and possible suspension of the operator's flight license.

The actual stat lists the Availability as "F", referring to the 5,000 credit permit.

My explanation is worked into my reasoning for calling it a courier drive. What I'm conceptualizing is that it is possible for civilian pilots, upon completion of an appropriate background check and licensing process, to be a Licensed Courier, who may then work as a company pilot or owner/operator for the Imperial Parcel Service or any one of a number of private courier companies (the SWU equivalent of UPS or FedEx). Part of that licensing process includes greater allowances for ships modified for speed and combat, due to couriers commonly transporting light, high value, time-sensitive cargos. This can include anything from official or legal documents to fresh seafood being delivered to distant markets.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
A couple possibilities:

    -A bonus to Persuasion rolls made by characters against guests who come on board the ship, whether this is the result of someone being impressed by the luxury or someone in an official capacity being more easily convinced that someone this rich couldn't possibly be involved in something illegal.

    -A bonus to CP awards for time spent aboard ship between missions, owing to the luxuriousness of having one's physical needs met makes it easier to focus on training.


As a member of the mil, we were always taught luxury, saps your drive.. Not 'makes it easier'.. I see the same with professional fighters..

BUT i do like the first option, of a bonus to persuasion.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
A couple possibilities:

    -A bonus to Persuasion rolls made by characters against guests who come on board the ship, whether this is the result of someone being impressed by the luxury or someone in an official capacity being more easily convinced that someone this rich couldn't possibly be involved in something illegal.

    -A bonus to CP awards for time spent aboard ship between missions, owing to the luxuriousness of having one's physical needs met makes it easier to focus on training.


Quite honestly, that second one is an idea the I've tossed around in my head for quite a while, but figured it was pointless to post anywhere owing to the tendency of GMs to be covetous of their limited resource of character points when they are awarding them (snicker, snicker Razz).

However, I think it may be more "reasonable" to reduce the character point cost for, say, a single skill when raising it if the characters have sufficient accommodations to facilitate optimum work/training and rest cycles.

As an example, an athlete needs quality rest and quality nutrition in order to gain the best possible benefits of his training.

A military-style character may benefit from having an indoor shooting range installed in place of some portion of the cargo bay, complete with holographic moving targets and what not. There is no limit to the types and quality of accommodations that PCs could come up with, I'm sure.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A couple possibilities:

-A bonus to Persuasion rolls made by characters against guests who come on board the ship, whether this is the result of someone being impressed by the luxury or someone in an official capacity being more easily convinced that someone this rich couldn't possibly be involved in something illegal.

-A bonus to CP awards for time spent aboard ship between missions, owing to the luxuriousness of having one's physical needs met makes it easier to focus on training.


Those are both great ideas.

I'd also give a bonus to bargain rolls with relation to how much a captain can charge per passenger on chartered flights.

Namaan wrote:
However, I think it may be more "reasonable" to reduce the character point cost for, say, a single skill when raising it if the characters have sufficient accommodations to facilitate optimum work/training and rest cycles.


Quote:
There is no limit to the types and quality of accommodations that PCs could come up with, I'm sure.


You could just have it give a free character point for reducing training times for skills covered by the extras added by the captain & crew. So, there isn't actually a decreased cost in skill improvement, just a small decrease in training time due to better rest and nutrition offered. One point per luxury level. Which means at best a 2-day reduction in training times on the ship?

Reasonable, and not too overpowered, plus if you off-set it with an increased cost of restocking the ship, things balance out in the long run.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as most of these upgrades, the objection raised in (distant) past was that, because of differing prices, cargo capacities and such, it wasn't possible to build a generic system of factory upgrades that could be applied to any light freighter.

After a very long time, I have come to the conclusion that, as much as possible, any factory upgrades should be based on percentage of the base value of the transport. I'm picturing using the YT-1300 as a base, since the 100 metric ton maximum is easily converted into tonnage percentages.

For example, a Courier Drive when installed on a YT-1300 would cost 2 metric tons and 10,000 credits. Apply that to the 100 metric tons / 100,000 credit (new) price tag, and you get -2% base cargo capacity and 10% of base price (new). If the ship has no New price, then use 4x the Used price as a base.

Now, you can apply these base percentages to the stock stats of other ships, new or used. For example, a Ghtroc 720 (base price 98,500 new, cargo capacity 135 metric tons) would pay 9,850 credits and lose 2.7 metric tons of cargo space to replace its Space 3 Drive with a Space 5 Drive.

Naturally, not every Upgrade Package will fit with this; some will stick with flat tonnages and prices, but that will be determined on a case-by-case basis.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think coming up with a rough bonus/cost percentage is a good place to start.

Maybe each tier has a 10% or 20% bonus or cost in cargo capacity, although the 1400 with the 80 tons extra is a pretty hefty bonus away from that. Those should be pretty easy to do on the fly for most GMs. Also, I think that rounding the capacity change is probably best for simplicity's sake.

I think making the credit cost as a percentage of the new value makes sense, the only trouble would be in calculating how that transfers onto the used cost of the vehicle.
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