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Code Replicator
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Bren
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject: Code Replicator Reply with quote

Has anyone done a write-up of a code replicator? (I didn't find one with a forum search.)

Code replicators are mentioned in the novel Rebel Rising which has Jyn Erso before her escape in Rogue One.

Here's my take on it.

Code Replicator
Type: Code replicator
Cost: Illegal
Availability: R, X
A code replicator is a device used for forging Imperial ship transponder codes, clearance codes, and scandocs. It simulates the algorithm used to generate these codes. It can be hooked directly into a ship's mainframe (presumably for creating a forged transponder code). A code replicator is about the size of a datapad, but thicker and heavier. It includes:
    * Preloaded master templates e.g. for ship clearance codes.
    * Software that assists the forger in simulating the complicated algorithms used in ship transponder and clearance codes or official scandocs.
    * A keypad for the forger to enter commands and characters to customize and complete the codes.
    * Standard computer connections for uploading and downloading codes.

Description and use from the novel Rebel Rising by Beth Revis especially page 38-39.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never read that novel.. But would this use computer programming? Spaceship repair or something else to operate?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go with Computer Programming.

Bren, would this device provide some form of bonus for creating a bogus code, or would it be the tool required to make an unmodified roll to do so?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And would those trying to 'search' that code to see if the transponder is fake, use con, search or comp prog to figure that out? OR is it once a codes programmed in, anyone looking "believes it to be real period"??
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a LEO, It would seem to me that any transponder code made with such a device would be like having a fake fabricated license plate on your car.

Driving around with no plate at all is going to attract attention, so it's a good idea to have something...either legitimate, a stolen legitimate code...or like this device would make, something completely fabricated.

Having a made-up plate is fine to not attract attention unless you actually get stopped for something.

Law enforcement is going to run the plate on the database as a matter of standard procedure. In SW that would be BoSS.

And then you have a problem...because unless someone has put the fabricated false code into the database...it is going to be clear that something is up.

Now having NO vehicle associated to the plate when searched is actually a little bit better than having the WRONG vehicle associated.

SOMETIMES a 'no-return' can be due to a glitch with the database; ie a poor connection and you get no return information at all.

SOMETIMES it can be because the database hasn't been updated, for example you just bought a new car or re-plated one that has been 'off the road' for a few years.

Both of these could be influenced by a pretty good con skill roll and a relatively gullible (poor-rolling) cop as long as the reason for the stop was routine or minor.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far back as Han Solo at Star's End, it's been established that the platinum-standard for false transponders involved having both the transponder code and having someone add that code to the database.

So based on what you're describing, this would be like having a fake plate, but also bribing some corrupt official at the DMV (or its Canadian equivalent) to add your fake plate into the data network.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
As far back as Han Solo at Star's End, it's been established that the platinum-standard for false transponders involved having both the transponder code and having someone add that code to the database.

So based on what you're describing, this would be like having a fake plate, but also bribing some corrupt official at the DMV (or its Canadian equivalent) to add your fake plate into the data network.


Agreed, that is the most ideal... bribery of corrupt employee or having a computer 'hacker' implant the data. I can't say how likely that would be IRL, but it is a staple of action fiction and spy stories.


So the way I am understanding the code replicator device as described in this thread (it seems to me) would be like a piece of equipment that could make authentic looking licence plates and validation sticker...but with nothing to back them up. A nice piece of kit...but you would also like to have a person on the inside of BoSS or a good slicer to really make the most of it.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:

Both of these could be influenced by a pretty good con skill roll and a relatively gullible (poor-rolling) cop as long as the reason for the stop was routine or minor.


Good points all.. So having it wouldn't actually nessitate any rolls, but what comes AFTER, if stopped would..

Quote:
As far back as Han Solo at Star's End, it's been established that the platinum-standard for false transponders involved having both the transponder code and having someone add that code to the database.

So based on what you're describing, this would be like having a fake plate, but also bribing some corrupt official at the DMV (or its Canadian equivalent) to add your fake plate into the data network.


That's something i've never liked.. How easy it seems to find corrpt officials or slicers able to hack stuff into Boss. To Me, that system should be one of the most secure things out there. AND if it was as easy as some novels makes it seem to get corrupt officials to add you/hack into, HOW could it be so trusted??
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:

That's something i've never liked.. How easy it seems to find corrpt officials or slicers able to hack stuff into Boss. To Me, that system should be one of the most secure things out there. AND if it was as easy as some novels makes it seem to get corrupt officials to add you/hack into, HOW could it be so trusted??


I know what you mean. It should not be easy or common.

But then I recall that the characters in the RPG, just like the characters in the fiction represent an incredibly small percentage of beings in the galaxy.

Just as we know that there are those few people in the military who will sell secrets to an enemy government in real life, given the proper motivation as a matter of historical fact, it stands to reason that those people would probably exist in every organization and regime. Finding them and exerting the proper motivation would be the extraordinary part of the process.

If we look at what the skill dice codes in the SW game tell us about how good the characters are at things like slicing and persuasion compared to the vast majority, it becomes a bit easier a concept to swallow.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. Player Character Groups are not an accurate demographic representation of the galactic population as a whole. Just because a PC has the right connections to get these things done doesn't mean that just anyone can do it.

I also think you're overestimating the efficiency of bureaucracy, especially in something as decentralized as the SWU. There's no way for a galaxy-wide database to operate at the same level of responsiveness as, say, the DMV, where all the information is available through the Internet.

Even if such a system exists, it's only as accurate as the government employee entering the data on the input side, and they are just as prone to corruption as anyone else.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredwulf60 wrote:

But then I recall that the characters in the RPG, just like the characters in the fiction represent an incredibly small percentage of beings in the galaxy.


True, but rarely if ever is it the PC's actually doing the 'slicing in/blackmailing someone to get it done. Usually they just go to XYZ criminal group, and pay them to slice it in.. Showing at least, most every crime network has dedicated slicers who do just that...

CRMcNeill wrote:

Even if such a system exists, it's only as accurate as the government employee entering the data on the input side, and they are just as prone to corruption as anyone else.


Which kind of brings us back, to HOW many working in the empire Are corrupt.. One in a thousand? One in a hundred?
At that rate, practically every planet under the empire would have a hundred or so corrupt individuals..
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of great responses! Thanks guys.

The following is some context to where this post is coming from. (Feel free to skip down to the next post with responses to comments.)

I jotted some notes about the device when I read the novel a while back. Recently forgery has come up in several times in play and I was having some difficulty explaining to the player of the Gambler PC (who has the forgery skill) how and why forgery was different than Computer Programming and Repair. Comp prog/rep is a skill that I find can easily be overused in Star Wars, especially when players or GMs who live in the highly networked, internet, digital, wireless world of today with its computer hackers, virus infected emails, downloadable malware, and hijacked web pages, and phone number spoofed robocalls make computer programming and repair into a magic key. I don’t want computer prog/rep to be an I-win button.

I see Star Wars, droids notwithstanding, as mostly an analog, non-wireless, non-networked setting not some sort of space opera version of cyberpunk. I want don’t want a single, super useful skill. I want other skills like security and forgery to have their place.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Never read that novel.. But would this use computer programming? Spaceship repair or something else to operate?
The description doesn’t just apply to a ship transponder code so not starship repair. I could certainly see an argument for Comp Prog/Rep, but I was thinking forgery. It's already a listed skill, the device is use to fake something, and computer programming and repair is already somewhat overused as a skill.

CRMcNeill wrote:
Bren, would this device provide some form of bonus for creating a bogus code, or would it be the tool required to make an unmodified roll to do so?
One of the things that's often glossed over is what tools are needed to make use of a skill, e.g. can you use security with your bare hands or in this case what do you need to forge a scandoc or transponder code. My thought was some type of tool would be necessary to fake a transponder code, scandoc, etc. I could see having better quality code replicators that would provide a bonus, but at this point, I'm just trying to establish a base model.

Dredwulf60 wrote:
<bunch of great stuff>

Dredwulf60 wrote:
As a LEO, It would seem to me that any transponder code made with such a device would be like having a fake fabricated license plate on your car.
I think the transponder code is also supposed to have some of the unique vehicle identifying characteristics of a VIN#.

Dredwulf60 wrote:
Driving around with no plate at all is going to attract attention, so it's a good idea to have something...either legitimate, a stolen legitimate code...or like this device would make, something completely fabricated.
Completely agree.

Dredwulf60 wrote:
Now having NO vehicle associated to the plate when searched is actually a little bit better than having the WRONG vehicle associated.

SOMETIMES a 'no-return' can be due to a glitch with the database; ie a poor connection and you get no return information at all.

SOMETIMES it can be because the database hasn't been updated, for example you just bought a new car or re-plated one that has been 'off the road' for a few years.

Both of these could be influenced by a pretty good con skill roll and a relatively gullible (poor-rolling) cop as long as the reason for the stop was routine or minor.
Dredwulf, this is great stuff as it allows for dramatic possibilities and player/PC action via the con.

It’s also possible that Imperial Intelligence operatives have transponder codes that don’t come up on a BOSS search -- especially if they are in ISB or the office of the Inquisition. Those sorts of Internal Affairs folks might not want insufficiently loyal Imperials to be able to look up who that ship that is visiting them or following them is registered to by consulting the BOSS database and get an answer or a red flag like TOP SECRET showing up in the database.

CRMcNeill wrote:
As far back as Han Solo at Star's End, it's been established that the platinum-standard for false transponders involved having both the transponder code and having someone add that code to the database.
That is best. But I really like Dredwulf's idea that there is value (and an opportunity for clever dialog and/or con rolls) even without the illegal database modification.

Dredwulf60 wrote:
So the way I am understanding the code replicator device as described in this thread (it seems to me) would be like a piece of equipment that could make authentic looking licence plates and validation sticker...but with nothing to back them up. A nice piece of kit...but you would also like to have a person on the inside of BoSS or a good slicer to really make the most of it.
Yes that is my sense of it from the novel.

Also since official Imperial scandocs include an authentication code of some kind, the code replicator would be useful in creating other fake documents besides just a transponder code.

Another important point is that the device assists in faking an authentic looking code, but it still requires input from the operator to complete the code and that talent or skill factors into this. The novel made a point of the fact that Jyn Erso was talented at using a code replicator and could therefore make better (read more authentic seeming) forgeries. Essentially that is the justification for it enabling forgery rather than replacing it or necessarily providing a bonus to the skill roll.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The amount of Imperial corruption is a different topic, so I put replies to that here.

garhkal wrote:
That's something i've never liked.. How easy it seems to find corrpt officials or slicers able to hack stuff into Boss. To Me, that system should be one of the most secure things out there. AND if it was as easy as some novels makes it seem to get corrupt officials to add you/hack into, HOW could it be so trusted??
We know that Palpatine's Empire is intentionally corrupt. So while not easy, with the right contacts it is possible to find a corrupt official. The overwhelming majority of entries are accurate and to some extent, the system is trusted because the people who run the system have a vested self-interest in propagating the (not entirely true) impression that it should be trusted.

In addition, a game where the PCs are constantly being found out and captured by the honest and efficient authorities of the Empire wouldn’t be Star Wars. If you want that sort of righteous setting, you ought to be playing Lensmen in E.E. “Doc” Smith’s universe.

garhkal wrote:
Which kind of brings us back, to HOW many working in the empire Are corrupt.. One in a thousand? One in a hundred?
At that rate, practically every planet under the empire would have a hundred or so corrupt individuals..
Only a hundred??? I imagine that most members of the Imperial court are scheming and corrupt as are most Moffs, many Imperial Governors, and many if not most executive officers of megacorporations. We see evidence of that in the movies with Crimson Dawn (Imperials are on Vos’ yacht) and in the EU with Black Sun.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
True, but rarely if ever is it the PC's actually doing the 'slicing in/blackmailing someone to get it done. Usually they just go to XYZ criminal group, and pay them to slice it in.. Showing at least, most every crime network has dedicated slicers who do just that...

I don't see the problem. Comparatively, it's not like the Department of Motor Vehicles is going to have the same level of network security as the NSA. And it's not like you need to hack it, either; a crime network is far more likely to know who the corrupt officials are (probably because said official is a customer who gets his spice or his slave girls from said crime network).

And it's not like knowing who to talk to is some easy task, either. Do you know who you would need to talk to in your town to get a fake ID, complete with an authentic-looking data trail? I certainly don't. And the problem gets even more complex when you are a complete stranger dropping into a location you've either never seen before or haven't visited in a long time.

Quote:
Which kind of brings us back, to HOW many working in the empire Are corrupt.. One in a thousand? One in a hundred?
At that rate, practically every planet under the empire would have a hundred or so corrupt individuals..

You're probably low-balling it, actually. Given planetary population sizes, corrupt individuals could potentially run in the millions per planet. Look at the Earth, with a global population of 7 billion and rising; do you really think there are just a hundred corrupt individuals on this entire planet?

The problem isn't knowing that there are corrupt individuals in a population; that's a given. The problem is how to find the right kind of corrupt individual, the one who provides the service you need, provides you with a quality product, and who won't sell you out to the cops afterwards.
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