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Different Origin Concept for Darth Vader
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MattMartin23
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:46 am    Post subject: Different Origin Concept for Darth Vader Reply with quote

After looking back at Episodes I through III I couldn't help but feel that much should have been done differently. I have some suggestions / thoughts about what I may make "canon" Darth Vader origins in my current RPG.

First, I would have Anakin born to Shmi Skywalker, an unmarried farmer's daughter on Tatooine. He was found as a baby by Master Qui Gonn Jinn and his padawan Obi Wan Kenobi. There will be no connections to mother, no feelings of loss from her. Never did like this concept for him anyway.

For Episode 1 -
Anakin would be 13 years old and would already be the apprentice of Jedi Master Qui Gonn Ginn. Knight Obi Wan Kenobi (another trial would have brought about Obi-Wan's knighthood) would travel with them for Trade Federation meeting. All still go to Naboo, still meet Jar Jar. Padme and Anakin are immediately smitten with one another. Still go to Tatooine. Already an adept pilot, and familiar with pod racing during visit to Malastare, Qui Gonn recommends that Anakin race for Watto in Boonta Eve Classic in exchange for their ship getting repaired. Anakin wins. His mother attends with her husband Cleeg Lars. She tears when she hears, "Anakin Skywalker wins" sad about having given up her son to the Jedi Order, proud that he is proving himself to be a winner. Anakin notes a strange feeling and is unable to pinpoint it. Goes about his dealings. Maul comes to Tatooine to assassinate Jedi. Jedi and crew head to Coruscant. Afterwards, Jedi and crew return to Naboo. Anakin, the adept pilot, heads with pilots to fight Trade Federation. Obi Wan and Qui Gonn engage Darth Maul. Master Qui Gonn is killed. Obi Wan kills Darth Maul. Anakin breaks down and cries when he learns Qui Gonn has been killed. Obi Wan fights back tears as well. Yoda and Mace Windu tell Obi Wan to be watchful as the Sith have arisen. Palpatine spins his web of deceit around Anakin moving in to replace himself as Anakin's "father figure".

Episode II -
Now 18, Anakin, embarks with Obi Wan on mission to protect Senator Amidala. He is impulsive and irrational trying to stay on the path of the Jedi but struggling with doctrine and the questionable nature of the Republic. Feels strongly that the Jedi Order should perserve good for the sake of good, not because it's a commission by the Republic. "We are a preisthood, not a military". He is often angry and feels underappreciated. Palpatine says the right things to build up Anakin's ego so he strongly trusts Palpatine. Most of the same events occur. Anakin and Padme both struggle wanting to pursue their love in spite of their duties. They overcome temptations of feelings on Naboo. Padme confesses her love for Anakin. Anakin still loses arm to Dooku. After the Battle of Geonosis is over and Yoda says begun the Clone Wars have, the episode is over. No wedding for Anakin and Padme on Naboo.

Episode III
Should start off with Anakin, Obi Wan and Ahsoka Tano battling droid ships and entering Grevious' ship. Ahsoka and Obi Wan are both rendered unconscious by Dooku and do not see Anakin execute Dooku. Anakin and Padme conceive children together and she becomes pregnant without his knowledge. Next morning Padme states that the current Republic is run by corrupt Senators, naming Palpatine one of them; that even if the Separatists are defeated that a New Republic needs to be enstated with pure at heart Senators with peace and cooperation in mind. Anakin argues with her on this, believing that a government order ruled by one, no collusion and bribery but controlled by one powerful leader is the best way to move forward. Her distrust of Palpatine causes a rift between them as Anakin is a friend of Palpatine, like a son to him and trusts his decisions, in some ways more than those of Yoda and Obi Wan - that Palpatine speaks with better clarity. Anakin's duties call him to handle Jedi affairs. Obi Wan notes Anakin's overnight rendezvous with Padme. He visits Padme in private saying she will ruin Anakin's chances of becoming a Master if she leads him to break the code of detachment. She argues I think you have to worry about much more than him breaking that antiquated rule - Anakin is powerhungry Master ObiWan. Anakin has dream that Ahsoka will die in combat. Learns that Ahsoka is called to aid with Outer Rim seizes. Insists on traveling with her. Ahsoka is wounded by armored mercenaries. Anakin strikes hunters down with all his hate slicing off heads and arms. Ahsoka awakens and heads into her ship. She looks to Anakin who feels disturbance in Force. He says, "Wait!!! Ahsoka" as she looks at him confused. Her ship explodes from the cockpit. There is nothing to save as she is killed instantly. Bitter, as much as he tries to save her, he cannot. He blames the Council for not sending someone else for this mission, taking no satifaction in sucess of mission. Overwhelmed by all the losses from the Clone Wars, hundreds of Jedi and civilian friends slain alike Anakin confides in Palpatine. Agreeing with Palpatine that the Jedi are a failed order, that the Republic has failed, that the Separatists are evil he muses to Palpatine, "What hope do we have?". "No hope for the Republic Anakin. But there is much hope in an Intergalactic Empire. One ruler of all - me, with you as my apprentice. Yes Anakin I am a Sith Lord. I have countless powers to teach you and together we will rule this galaxy and fix what is broken. First we shall begin by eliminating the Jedi Order. They will only stifle things and get in the way. Anakin sets the trap telling Mace Windu that Palpatine is the Sith Lord that must be stopped. Anakin joins Mace Windu in the Supreme Chancellor's Chambers. Helps Palpatine slay the Masters. Anakin engages Mace Windu in lightsaber duel. Mace gets upper hand on Anakin. Palpatine electrocutes Mace and Anakin cuts off Master Windu's hands then force pushes him out the window. Anakin bows to his new master, claiming, "Let's begin this New Order you speak of Master. I have no one here to love, no one here to follow in the Jedi Order that I can trust. No one that is powerful enough to keep my loved ones from dying. Only you have been honest with me Palpatine, only you have appraised and guided me. Given me the space to do what I want to do, to be what and who I want to be. Who I am destined to be, the Chosen One, to bring balance to the Force. Anakin tells Padme his new direction, led by Palpatine, tells her that the Jedi have betrayed the Republic. Eventually Obi Wan learns that Anakin has gone to Mustafar after Anakin told Padme his new direction. Spending time with her he can sense through the force that she is pregnant. Cautions her that if Anakin is the father and if he truly has joined the Sith that her future children would be in danger. Scared she follows him en route to Mustafar. Kenobi attempts to redeem Anakin. Anakin is defeated by Obi Wan then healed by Palpatine becoming Darth Vader. Obi Wan and Yoda go into hiding. Padme changes name to Mellanni and goes into hiding on Tatooine with Master Obi Wan, who had learned that Anakin's mother was the wife of a moisture farmer near Anchorhead. Obi Wan takes up settlement there guiding Padme through pregnancy. She gives birth to twins, Luke and Leia. Obi Wan keeps the Skywalker boy bringing him to his grandmother Shmi, step grandfather Cleeg Lars, uncle Owen and aunt Beru so that he can be kept from Palpatine's sight. Padme and baby Leia travel to Alderaan where they are embraced by the Organa family. Padme goes by name Mellanni Organna. Padme stays out of the public eye not wanting to be discovered by the Emperor or Vader. Saddened by Anakin's falling to the dark side, the depressed Padme remains in the Organa home until its Destruction by the Death Star.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave it a read-through and I don't see anything wrong with it. We invent the SWU in our own fashion every day here on the Pit, so there is nothing wrong with rewriting it to suit how you wish it to be. I know lots of people who could've written a better script for the prequels than George did.
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vanir
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the one where Darth is just someone's first name like Dak or Biggs, and he wasn't Anakin at all but was a guy named Darth Vader who murdered a completely different guy named Anakin Skywalker and they aren't related and pretty much had little to do with each other, except for some guy murdered some other guy who was Luke's dad, but the guy who murdered him definitely wasn't.

Like it was back in 78 before George Lucas got stoned on profits and went stupid with soap opera plot sequels.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Regarding "I am your father" Reply with quote

I don't think that Vader = father in Dutch is a coincidence.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Regarding "I am your father" Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
I don't think that Vader = father in Dutch is a coincidence.
As I understand it, Dooku is poop in Portuguese.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Regarding "I am your father" Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
Bren wrote:
I don't think that Vader = father in Dutch is a coincidence.
As I understand it, Dooku is poop in Portuguese.
Quickly playing with Bing translator I didn't get that translation. But in English dooku sounds a lot like baby talk for poop, i.e. doodoo or poopoo.

Unfortunately some of the names in Star Wars sound like they were invented by Jar Jar Binks.
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vanir
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would've put vater = Vader as a coincidence (it's vater not vader) but given extra info posted by Whill I'm sure you're right, I just wouldn't have drawn the conclusion on that alone, without all the extra info Whill posted.

I'm sure Lucas did have the concept in mind way back when. But I'm equally sure he never told Alec Guiness that when he greeted Vader with, "Hello, Darth."

He was clearly talking to a person who's first name was Darth, who he knew as a person named Darth, at least the way that actor was playing the scene. He didn't say, "Hello Anakin," he didn't say, "So you call yourself Darth now," watch the scene and look at the way Alec Guiness says, "Hello, Darth." If Lucas was solid on the dark father thing as literally rather than allegorically (Freudian, all competitive males seek to kill their father and bed their mother), well he doesn't appear to have told Alec Guiness about it at the time. Would've been something you'd want to tell that actor to place easter eggs into the screenplay, had it been so literal and so concrete, yes?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My translator says that Vater is German for father. Vader is Dutch for father.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
My translator says that Vater is German for father. Vader is Dutch for father.
I just Facebooked my Dutch friend. Awaiting a response...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Re: Regarding "I am your father" Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
I don't think that Vader = father in Dutch is a coincidence.

vanir wrote:
I would've put vater = Vader as a coincidence (it's vater not vader) but given extra info posted by Whill I'm sure you're right, I just wouldn't have drawn the conclusion on that alone, without all the extra info Whill posted.

I'm sure Lucas did have the concept in mind way back when. But I'm equally sure he never told Alec Guiness that when he greeted Vader with, "Hello, Darth."

He was clearly talking to a person who's first name was Darth, who he knew as a person named Darth, at least the way that actor was playing the scene. He didn't say, "Hello Anakin," he didn't say, "So you call yourself Darth now," watch the scene and look at the way Alec Guiness says, "Hello, Darth."

That was discussed in the thread from last year that I referenced in the recent post. Lucas says he did originally conceive of the character of Darth Vader to be Luke's father, but then he took that out of the first film (only to be "retconned" back in later with a couple of lame excuses given to Luke for the retroactive deception). Kenobi's greeting to Vader on the Death Star is an example of Vader's paternity of Luke being removed from that film. I agree that the intention portrayed at the time was that Darth was the first name of the character that killed Luke's father. OK, so what? If that inspires you to make an alternate realitiy in which Vader and Anakin Skywalker were two seperate people and you like that idea, cool.

If you accept the SW sequels and prequels as canon then you accept Lucas' reinsertion of Vader being Luke's father back into his continuity and you just come up with some explanation for Obi-Wan's line and move on. I choose to view Obi-Wan calling Vader "Darth" as mocking his new identity following the Sith path. It works for me. No big deal.

A bigger deal to me comes from the lines, "He was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" and "When I left you I was but the learner." The former line doesn't even totally jive with Obi-Wan's later "certain point of view" explanation because the first film also states that Luke's father was a Jedi Knight, which means that there was some time in between being Kenobi's pupil and turning to evil. But the "subjective truth" explanation was really a BS answer and you could just say Obi-Wan was flat-out lying.

Episode III complies with Luke's father being a Jedi Knight by showing Anakin having already been promoted to a full-fledged Jedi Knight for a time before become Darth Vader. To go along more with Vader's line "I was but the learner", it was originally implied that Anakin became a Knight towards the end of the Clone Wars, but he continued to be partnered with his former master, technically no longer a padawan but still a pupil of sorts and learning from a more experienced senior Jedi. OK.

Then the current EU retconned that by making Anakin a Knight only one month after Episode II and on top of that even gave him his own padawan for the bulk of the Cone Wars. That is utterly preposterous to me. In my personal canon Anakin was indeed not made a Knight until less than a year before Episode III. (I rationalize that the promotion to Knight is when Anakin had more freedom to spend time with his secret wife and concieve the twins.) And in my mind there is no way Anakin would ever be given a padawan because he wasn't a very good padawan or knight himself. Obi-Wan, while not the best Master, would be a much better knight to give a new padawan to.

So that lead to me dreaming up that the real reason Anakin was even promoted to Knight was to make room for Obi-Wan to get a new padawan, maybe one whose master died in the war but the Council felt was definitely not ready to for Knighthood. Obi-Wan, Anakin and Obi-Wan's new apprentice operated a trio until right before Episode III when the padawan was severely wounded and taken out of battle, or promoted to Knighthood and reassigned elsewhere... And then after hearing Obi-Wan's skewed truth 20 years later, Luke may have had an opportunity in the three years in before Episode V to do some research about his father Anakin Skywalker and come across a reference to Obi-Wan's second padawan but without a name, which Luke would assume incorrectly was Darth Vader, the Jedi pupil who turned to evil. Luke would also read the Imperial version of the so-called "Jedi Rebellion" and the end of the Clone War which mentions Palpatine's mysterious enforcer Darth Vader killing Anakin Skywalker and may other Jedi... And then after Episode V, Luke encounters Obi-Wan's second padawan who had escaped the Jedi purge but is obviously not Darth Vader as Luke had believed. But this Jedi doesn't know the truth about Anakin being Darth Vader so can't confirm Vader's revelation for Luke. Maybe he doesn't believe that Anakin could have become Vader, but he can confirm that Darth Vader was never a pupil of Obi-Wan's, casting more doubt on what Obi-Wan told Luke. And this Jedi can also provide some more training for Luke to better explain Luke's sudden increase in badassness in Shadows of the Empire and the film Episode VI (and why Luke doesn't need any more training when he returns to Yoda for more training). This Jedi eventually sacrifices himself by confronting Vader to give Luke time to escape Imperial capture. It would be cool that once Luke is away safely, this Jedi finds out the truth before he is killed by Vader. All that works for me!

I've never stated that Lucas never attempts to retcon himself. He does. Lucas changed the age of the Republic from 1000 generations (Episode IV) to 1000 years (Episode II). I accept the EU's explanation for that discrepancy (The Rusaan Reformation). But Lucas says Vader was intended to be Luke's father BEFORE the original Star Wars film, and there is no way to disprove that. Just sayin'.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: Different Origin Concept for Darth Vader Reply with quote

MattMartin23 wrote:
Different Origin Concept for Darth Vader


MattMartin23, I read your summary and I liked it. Even Lucas himself stated that there is really a Star Wars Multiverse, and your version of the Saga is just as valid as the next fan's. Whatever works for you! Thanks for sharing.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an interesting read and a worthy re-write. I'd tear more of Ep. I out, but that's just me Smile

I really, really like that you noted Shmi's sense of loss, as it's something I've often thought about as to the Ep 1-3 version of Jedi training.

It's different than, say, medieval Europeans going to convents or monasteries. In many cases, the families were large and landless and there was not much in the way of other options for many of those folks. I realize in the movie Anakin was a "slave" (what does Shmi do again?), but surely the many other Jedi were not all in that kind of circumstance.

So, I think the parents' sense of loss would be palpable, especially where they don't see their kids again because they're involved in border disputes on Ansion. It's an idea I haven't done much with yet, but definitely something that will be a part of the old Jedi world. Maybe some parents hide their kids from the Jedi. Maybe some run away back to their families, and the Jedi have to go collect them.

Anyway, I like your re-write. I sketched out one and will try to throw it up if I can find it again and read my notes.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
Bren wrote:
My translator says that Vater is German for father. Vader is Dutch for father.
I just Facebooked my Dutch friend. Awaiting a response...
So, it may be a little late, but Anna says "vader" is Dutch for father, but the "a" is pronounced the same as you would pronounce the "a" in Melissa or Micah. When they talk about Star Wars, they say Vader's name just the same as we do.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fallon Kell wrote:
Fallon Kell wrote:
Bren wrote:
My translator says that Vater is German for father. Vader is Dutch for father.
I just Facebooked my Dutch friend. Awaiting a response...
So, it may be a little late, but Anna says "vader" is Dutch for father, but the "a" is pronounced the same as you would pronounce the "a" in Melissa or Micah. When they talk about Star Wars, they say Vader's name just the same as we do.
The pronounciation makes sense, it's how standard American English pronounces the "a" in father.

And variant pronounciation is very Star Wars. After all, not all the characters pronounce Han's name the same way. Wink


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true.
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