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Realistic Sensor Rules
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The end result would be an update to all stats, featuring a specific ship's sensor profile. For example, an X-Wing would look something like so:
    Sensors:
    Passive: 25/0D
    Scan: 50/1D
    Search: 75/2D
    Focus: 3/4D
    Profile:
    Cruise: +1
    Stealth: -9
    Attack: +7

So, if making a Sensor roll against the X-Wing, the sensor operator would receive a modifier to his skill roll depending on whether the X-Wing was just flying along (Cruise), trying to hide (Stealth) or coming in hot and loaded for rancor (Attack).

EDIT: Also, for those of you who are more comfortable using the Base 5 System, the numbers this system generates can be rounded to the nearest 5's value. For example, the above profile for the X-Wing would look like so when rounded:
    Profile:
    Cruise: +0
    Stealth: -10
    Attack: +5

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And just because I can, here are the profile numbers for all of the starships from the 2R&E Rulebook and the three core sourcebooks.
    SSD: +12 / +2 / +28
    ISD II: +8 / -2 / +19
    ISD I: +8 / -2 / +18
    VSD II: +6 / -4 / +17
    VSD I: +5 / -5 / +15
    MC80 Star Cruiser: +6 / -4 / +16
    Torpedo Sphere: +7 / -3 / +14
    Interdictor: +5 / -5 / +15
    Dreadnaught: +4 / -6 / +13
    Rebel Assault Frigate: +4 / -6 / +14
    Bulk Cruiser: +4 / -6 / +12
    Strike Cruiser: +5 / -5 / +16
    Carrack: +3 / -7 / +13
    Escort Carrier: +5 / -5 / +12
    Nebulon-B Frigate: +3 / -6 / +13
    Lancer Frigate: +3 / -7 / +11
    Star Galleon: +6 / -4 / +13
    Corellian Gunship: +5 / -5 / +13
    Corellian Corvette: +4 / -6 / +11
    System Patrol Craft: +4 / -6 / +12
    Assault Shuttle: +5 / -5 / +16
    Skipray: +4 / -6 / +12

    A-Wing: +2 / -8 / +8
    B-Wing: +1 / -9 / +10
    X-Wing: +1 / -9 / +7
    Y-Wing: +1 / -9 / +9
    TIE/ln: +1 / -9 / +6
    TIE Interceptor: +2 / -8 / +7
    TIE Bomber: +0 / -10 / +1
    Z-95: +1 / -9 / +7
    Guardian Light Cruiser: +2 / -8 / +9

    Container Ship: +6 / -4 / +10*
    Bulk Freighter: +3 / -7 / +7*
    Luxury Liner: +5 / -5 / +10
    Medium Transport: +3 / -7 / +9
    YT-1300: +0 / -10 / +6
    Millennium Falcon: +1 / -9 / +11
    Ghtroc 720: +0 / -10 / +6
    Lone Scout-A: -1 / -11 / +5
    Space Barge: +0 / -10 / +4*

    *these vessels lack shields and weapons, so this number indicates a ship running away at All-Out.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Nicely thought out. BUT what do you consider "Running silent"?

Basically Stealth, but with the engines completely shut down, as per the RAW.


SO if they are completely shut down, can they still maneuver? Do a vehicle "dodge"?
How quickly can they kick the engines back on?
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
SO if they are completely shut down, can they still maneuver? Do a vehicle "dodge"?

Running Silent is a concept from the RAW where a ship is shut down almost completely (basically everything but passive sensors and life support). So, no maneuvering.

Quote:
How quickly can they kick the engines back on?

Dunno. The RAW never addressed it and I have had other things on my mind.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to the above Sensor profile numbers, here's how I'm thinking the various Stealth equipment will tie in.
    Sensor Mask - Apart from Cloaking Devices, the Sensor Mask is the top of the heap for starship stealth systems in the SWU. When active, the Sensor Mask's dice value applies as a negative penalty to the number listed above, under any condition. This is a big advantage of the Sensor Mask, and a big reason why Sensor Masks are so expensive.

    Sensor Baffling - As with the Sensor Mask, Sensor Baffling dice value applies as a negative modifier under all conditions (it's not like a pilot can turn his paint job on and off).

    Sensor Jammers - Apply as a positive modifier to Detect and a negative modifier to Identify.

    Stealth Shields - The idea for this one came from the Loronar SkyBlind, where the stats note that its shields can also be used to block sensors. I took that to be an either/or proposition (in that it could block attacks or sensors, but not both at the same time), and have gone on to include the concept in a few stats. For the purposes of this rule, ships equipped with Stealth Shields can use their Shield dice as a negative modifier to their Sensor Profile, but only if they are in Stealth Condition. The idea is that Stealth Shields provide a limited version of the Sensor Mask at reduced cost and weight.

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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems good..

Quote:
Sensor Baffling - As with the Sensor Mask, Sensor Baffling dice value applies as a negative modifier under all conditions (it's not like a pilot can turn his paint job on and off).


Wouldn't it be cool though if the pilot (ship owner) could do that though.. Flick a switch and small plates around the hull rotate, to switch it from normal outer 'shell', to a stealth cammo shell.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Wouldn't it be cool though if the pilot (ship owner) could do that though.. Flick a switch and small plates around the hull rotate, to switch it from normal outer 'shell', to a stealth cammo shell.

The idea (or something to that effect) is not without precedent in science fiction.

In the Honorverse, most ships are equipped with "smart paint" that can change color or pattern on command from the bridge / cockpit. It isn't as useful for warships in that universe since the specifics of starship design mean that a warship can't really look like anything but a warship. However, Q-Ships use it to great effect, along with multi-mode transponder code systems...

Most paint jobs these days consist of multiple layers, including several layers of clearcoat over the actual color. Picture a multi-layer paint job with primer at the bottom, followed by the Sensor Baffle coating, with a liquid-crystalline layer on top of that that serves as a projective medium for a 2D holo-image, all separated and protected by multiple intervening layers of clear coat (or what-have-you). When activated, the smart paint projects an innocuous paint job, complete with bogus serial numbers projected on the bow. But turn it off, and it goes completely transparent, exposing the Sensor Baffling underneath...

I could see the holo-paint layer disrupting the effects of the Sensor Baffling to a degree. Maybe a -1D penalty, so you can either pay for the 2D double coat with the holo-paint over it, or just do without for the full sensor baffling effect (but also be completely unable to take the ship into any legitimate port).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
Wouldn't it be cool though if the pilot (ship owner) could do that though.. Flick a switch and small plates around the hull rotate, to switch it from normal outer 'shell', to a stealth cammo shell.

The idea (or something to that effect) is not without precedent in science fiction.

In the Honorverse, most ships are equipped with "smart paint" that can change color or pattern on command from the bridge / cockpit. It isn't as useful for warships in that universe since the specifics of starship design mean that a warship can't really look like anything but a warship. However, Q-Ships use it to great effect, along with multi-mode transponder code systems...

Most paint jobs these days consist of multiple layers, including several layers of clearcoat over the actual color. Picture a multi-layer paint job with primer at the bottom, followed by the Sensor Baffle coating, with a liquid-crystalline layer on top of that that serves as a projective medium for a 2D holo-image, all separated and protected by multiple intervening layers of clear coat (or what-have-you). When activated, the smart paint projects an innocuous paint job, complete with bogus serial numbers projected on the bow. But turn it off, and it goes completely transparent, exposing the Sensor Baffling underneath...

I could see the holo-paint layer disrupting the effects of the Sensor Baffling to a degree. Maybe a -1D penalty, so you can either pay for the 2D double coat with the holo-paint over it, or just do without for the full sensor baffling effect (but also be completely unable to take the ship into any legitimate port).


I could also see issues with having your shields active if you wanted to engage the baffling/holo system. I also see it being in the way to upgrade your hull strength.
And it would imo also definitely be an X rating for availability/illegality..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I could also see issues with having your shields active if you wanted to engage the baffling/holo system.

Considering the parallel discussion we have going on, I would think particle shields would be a more likely culprit, as they are projected much closer to the hull than regular shields. I'd probably rule that full power particle shields intefere with the operation of the smart paint, and must be either detuned or replaced with low-power particle shields, reducing the ship's Hull rating by 1D either way.

Quote:
I also see it being in the way to upgrade your hull strength.

It's important to remember that "Hull" is a measurement of a ship's ability to resist damage in general, and doesn't just apply to how thick the armor is on the outside. It can take the form of reinforced bulkheads, internal armor for vital components, automated repair systems, and so on and so forth. Personally, I'd prefer to change Hull to Toughness or Durability to alleviate the confusion.

Quote:
And it would imo also definitely be an X rating for availability/illegality..

Definitely. I picture this tech being developed by the Empire for use with Imperial Intelligence ships and Imperial Navy decoy ships. But, like anything else in the SWU, such things are vulnerable to theft and redistribution.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also thinking of adding a fourth sensor profile for jumping in and out of hyperspace. The modifying factors would be Hull, Scale and Hyperdrive Multiplier. The idea is that, the larger and faster a ship is, the bigger the "splash" will be when it jumps into or out of hyperspace. Conversely, a small, slow ship, like a light freighter using its Backup Hyperdrive, will make a much smaller splash, and thus be much more likely to avoid detection.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

Definitely. I picture this tech being developed by the Empire for use with Imperial Intelligence ships and Imperial Navy decoy ships. But, like anything else in the SWU, such things are vulnerable to theft and redistribution.


True but once stolen, and 'redistributed' by the rebel scum (PCS), how will they ever explain it away if they need repair parts for it?

CRMcNeill wrote:
I'm also thinking of adding a fourth sensor profile for jumping in and out of hyperspace. The modifying factors would be Hull, Scale and Hyperdrive Multiplier. The idea is that, the larger and faster a ship is, the bigger the "splash" will be when it jumps into or out of hyperspace. Conversely, a small, slow ship, like a light freighter using its Backup Hyperdrive, will make a much smaller splash, and thus be much more likely to avoid detection.


Trying to remember which novel it was in, but there was mention you can 'scan for hyperspace' coronas' left by ships entering or exiting hyperspace..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
True but once stolen, and 'redistributed' by the rebel scum (PCS), how will they ever explain it away if they need repair parts for it?

Well, I'd say that any unit being shipped for installation will include spare parts, which can be used to make repairs.

Quote:
Trying to remember which novel it was in, but there was mention you can 'scan for hyperspace' coronas' left by ships entering or exiting hyperspace..

They got the idea from WEG's Hyperspace Signal Interceptor, which detects the transient when a ship enters or exits hyperspace.

The other piece of the puzzle is the Soliton Wave Tracker from the Black Fleet Crisis, which allows a pursuing ship to know when its target drops out of hyperspace.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
True but once stolen, and 'redistributed' by the rebel scum (PCS), how will they ever explain it away if they need repair parts for it?

Well, I'd say that any unit being shipped for installation will include spare parts, which can be used to make repairs.


Depends on if its only a proof of concept test flight they nick.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Depends on if its only a proof of concept test flight they nick.

Only if you want to make absolutely sure PCs can't use any new and interesting tech, and can only have it used on them... never mind; for a second, I forgot who I was talking to.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's been several unique pieces of tech i have had start out as the rebels hearing about it being tested for proof of concept, then they stole it... Not having access to repair parts when they steal something like that is imo NOT a 'gotcha' type situation.
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