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Realistic Sensor Rules
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
Another option, somewhat easier: Higher signature is better.

In that case, we'd be better off staying with Stealth; if a greater dice value represents something harder to spot, then the label applied to it should match.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the whole, if I were to go with a Signature entry, I'd probably just use these rules to generate a flat modifier.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A question re/ this post:

Based on what Dr. Bidlo mentioned here, it occurs to me that the "Identify" step of the Sensors Rules could be broken up into tiers to represent different levels of knowledge acquired. I'm quite busy dealing with Darth Reality today and tomorrow, but I figured I'd give this thread a bump to see if anyone has thoughts.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can also see limits on what info you can gleam, BASED On the type of 'sensor' roll you are making. Obviously passive sensors, won't in anyway, gain you as much info as a search/focus should. BUT would a 'scan' do it?
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Mamatried
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I can also see limits on what info you can gleam, BASED On the type of 'sensor' roll you are making. Obviously passive sensors, won't in anyway, gain you as much info as a search/focus should. BUT would a 'scan' do it?



I would use maybe in this context, Passive as a simple what ever comes in range will "beep" on the screen.

a Scan is doing an active searching of an area with anything there giving a "beep" is more directed and as such stronger within the "search radius"

A search done when something pings, this is tracking the signal, in addtions to possible identifying signatures and the like.

a focused one is then basically tracking that ONE target, reading more information on a very concetrated area, much like the ZOOM on a spy sattelite, here you read the bio-types, ideitifiable power signaures and more detail
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
I can also see limits on what info you can gleam, BASED On the type of 'sensor' roll you are making. Obviously passive sensors, won't in anyway, gain you as much info as a search/focus should. BUT would a 'scan' do it?

It’s decent in theory, but I think it would open a whole can of worms as to exactly what various sensor types should/shouldn’t be able to detect. Plus this system is already pretty crunch, and I’m looking strongly at how to simplify it.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
I would use maybe in this context

No. Just… no.

This is a complete misinterpretation of what I’m trying to do here. The four sensor modes are supposed to detect information at varying degrees of effectiveness, with corresponding drawbacks. I’m not trying to change that; I’m trying to insert additional degrees of information learned based on the Sensor roll made, not the mode being used.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mamatried wrote:
garhkal wrote:
I can also see limits on what info you can gleam, BASED On the type of 'sensor' roll you are making. Obviously passive sensors, won't in anyway, gain you as much info as a search/focus should. BUT would a 'scan' do it?



I would use maybe in this context, Passive as a simple what ever comes in range will "beep" on the screen.

a Scan is doing an active searching of an area with anything there giving a "beep" is more directed and as such stronger within the "search radius"

A search done when something pings, this is tracking the signal, in addtions to possible identifying signatures and the like.

a focused one is then basically tracking that ONE target, reading more information on a very concetrated area, much like the ZOOM on a spy sattelite, here you read the bio-types, ideitifiable power signaures and more detail


Exactly. As it stands by the RAW, i see little, to differentiate what data one can get, between a scan vs a focus, just how WELL you roll does that.
BUT realistically, the latter should get MORE info than the former..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
As it stands by the RAW, i see little, to differentiate what data one can get, between a scan vs a focus, just how WELL you roll does that.
BUT realistically, the latter should get MORE info than the former..

The idea behind the RAW is, simply, "the higher you roll, the more you learn". The different Sensor Modes - Passive, Scan, Search and Focus - provide varying Dice Bonuses to allow you the potential to roll higher, and thus learn more about the target. However, each mode also comes with its own limitations. What he's suggesting boils down to automatically getting more information based on what Sensor Mode you're using, regardless of the Sensor roll.

How much information you learn should be a function of how high you rolled on Sensors skill + Sensor Mode Dice Modifier, not something that happens automatically based on what Mode you're using.

What I'm asking about here is suggestions on breaking up the Identify option in this post into something more granular, where a simple Success provides basic information about the target vessel, and higher levels of Success provide more details, such as ID Transponder, whether the ship is stock or modified (and if so, how much), how heavily loaded it is, what sort of cargo it's hauling, etc.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is why i am thinking that BESIDES a chart say saying
10 or less - learns something is there
11 to 15 - learns that it's a ship
16-20, learns its a YT-4280
21-30, learns its out of power
31+ you also get that there's a hole in its left side

That maybe (15+ can't be learned if in passive mode, 31+ can't be learned if in only scan mode) or something like that, just to cover the "if someone lucks the hell out and rolls real high even with passive sensors roll...
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
That maybe (15+ can't be learned if in passive mode, 31+ can't be learned if in only scan mode) or something like that, just to cover the "if someone lucks the hell out and rolls real high even with passive sensors roll...

I don't do arbitrary result caps. If a sensor operator rolls 15+ even in passive mode, they should get the reading as indicated. My current version is this:
    Detect (Very Easy) - The sensor has a vague contact, with general bearing and a rough distance. In game terms, the Detecting ship knows which fire arc the contact is in, as well as whether the contact is close (less than 50% of maximum range), distant (over maximum range by 200% or less) or mid-range (50-100% of maximum).

    Locate (Moderate) - The contact has firmed up sufficiently to allow for Fire Control and Sensor Focus, as well as the contact's Scale.

    Identify (Difficult) - Can identify the specific class of ship and get a read off their IFF Transponder, as well as a general description of any modifications.
What I am specifically looking for here is how to break up "Identify" into tiers where making a Difficult roll by 5+ / 10+ / whatever provides more detailed information.
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
What I'm asking about here is suggestions on breaking up the Identify option in this post into something more granular, where a simple Success provides basic information about the target vessel, and higher levels of Success provide more details, such as ID Transponder, whether the ship is stock or modified (and if so, how much), how heavily loaded it is, what sort of cargo it's hauling, etc.


I have been playing in a way similar to what you described. Characters can identify ships, space stations, planets, etc. And get basic level information from passive, search, or scan. However, if they want very specific information, such as number of lifeforms aboard, how much power is going to the systems, hull integrity, etc. That only comes from a focus roll, which cannot be accomplished until after a successful passive, search, or scan roll. I have been playing this way for some time and thought that was RAW...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How's about just limit that sort of info, for focus only..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
How's about just limit that sort of info, for focus only..

Again, I don't do arbitrary limits. If you roll high enough, you get the information. Why shouldn't a really good Sensor operator be able to glean that sort of data in Passive mode on account of being really good at that skill?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ever operate modern radar/sonar? IT matters not how GOOD YOU think you are. IF you're not active on them, there's only SO MUCH information you can gleam.. IMO the same applies to 'sensors'..
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