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Realistic Sensor Rules
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Ever operate modern radar/sonar? IT matters not how GOOD YOU think you are. IF you're not active on them, there's only SO MUCH information you can gleam.. IMO the same applies to 'sensors'..

That'd fall under the heading of Familiarity Bonuses or something, not hard limits on what the equipment can and can't do. And even then, that's not how the game is structured; it's built around being able to literally drop into a ship you've never piloted before, but because you have a high enough Mech Attribute or the appropriate skills, you can operate it.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then why bother with different 'sensor ratings', if it matters NOT what the senors themselves are capable of, it matters HOW good a roll the operator makes?
Might as well do the same with shooting guns, where each weapon doesn't bother with a listed damage value, just base it on how WELL the shooter hits the target.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Might as well do the same with shooting guns, where each weapon doesn't bother with a listed damage value, just base it on how WELL the shooter hits the target.

Do you really need a refresher on how sensors work in 2R&E? The whole point of the Sensor rules means that each Mode provides a different bonus and range for the Sensor Operator to work with. The better said operator's Sensors skill is, the more dice he gets to stack with whatever Sensor mode he chooses to operate in:
    Passive = Lowest Bonus and Range, but provides bonuses to Stealth.
    Scan = Improved Bonus and Range relative to Passive.
    Search = Even more Bonus and Range, but only in one Fire Arc at a time (blind in all the others)
    Focus = Highest Bonus, with same Range as Search, but focused on a very small area, and blind everywhere else.
So, the idea is that, if a Sensor Operator is in Passive Mode, he has a chance to pick up specific information about a target ship, but that chance greatly improves if he uses Focus instead.

So, if his combined roll in either mode beats a target Difficulty number, he learns the information available at that tier; he just has a better chance of it in Focus than he does in Passive.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No i don't. BUT IF YOU ARE USING PASSIVE< why should you get all the info, that someone else has to use focus for. JUST BECAUSE YOU ROLLED really well??? It to ME, makes no damn sense.
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KageRyu
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sensors in SWD6 are not described in detail, form, or specific function - nor is there adequate descriptive detail in canon source materials to really say what modes of operation they have or the physical limits. They certainly can not be compared to contemporary sonar and radar, and are likely far more advanced. The game system is intentionally vague to help promote cinematic style situations which often are not grounded in any true reality. Given all of this, it is certainly not unreasonable that how much information is gained based on how high the roll is as the operator consults likely numerous different modes or channels of scanning or passive reception. A higher die code for sensors represents better detection systems without getting into the hard specifics of what those exactly are.

Having played a lot of Mecha/Sci-Fi games that got very detailed and specific, I can understand the desire to have these sorts of particulars. I personally like crunchy vehicle rules, which is something D6 does not have or use (though I was at one time working on such an overhaul to the vehicle system to add such rules while still keeping them compatible and optional). I would say, if you must add specific functionality given modes, then for each 1D of Sensor code add 1 specific feature module. A 0D sensor might be just a basic proximity detector. 1D might add energy detectors, mass scanners, velocity/vector tracking...etc... For this, you should make a list of all of the sensor modes you might think of, then assign them out. Though this will alter the play of SWD6 an limit how sensors are applied and used.
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Dr. Bidlo
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the sensor rules again from 2E T&E, 2E Blue Vader, and 1E (which I found had no rules for sensors). It sure doesn't say much, so I am not sure when I started using the rule that you have to first identify a target using one of the first three sensor modes before focung on them for more detailed data, but it has worked really well for a long time. That way, range and area of effect if the bug difference among the first three and focus is a full detailed scan after something is identified.
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CRMcNeill
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Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
No i don't. BUT IF YOU ARE USING PASSIVE< why should you get all the info, that someone else has to use focus for. JUST BECAUSE YOU ROLLED really well??? It to ME, makes no damn sense.

Like Kage said, the dice are used to represent how good the sensor system is at detecting and processing information about a target. A Focus Mode Scan may provide more information, but that doesn't mean a Passive Mode Scan performed by a skilled operator can't get similar information. This is exactly how it functions in the real world; submarines can get amazing amounts of information about sonar contacts using passive detection only, and only rarely use their active sonar.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16172
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Bidlo wrote:
I read the sensor rules again from 2E T&E, 2E Blue Vader, and 1E (which I found had no rules for sensors). It sure doesn't say much, so I am not sure when I started using the rule that you have to first identify a target using one of the first three sensor modes before focung on them for more detailed data, but it has worked really well for a long time. That way, range and area of effect if the bug difference among the first three and focus is a full detailed scan after something is identified.

If I can ever work out a good system for my uniform range band concept, it will include sensors. Conceptually, weapons and sensors will all use the same Ranges, but have different Difficulties to hit / detect at that range.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dr. Bidlo
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Joined: 24 Nov 2021
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Location: Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been simply doubling the ranges for Passive, Scan, and Sesrch sensor modes. I keep Focus unchanged since it seems appropriate, especially since I play that it only works withing the range of a previous successful Passive, Scan, or Search result with sensors.
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