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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Darth Ginzain wrote: | | As I recall in the Clone Wars movie, the AT-TE's climbed a nearly 90 degree cliff. Now that's all terrain. Also implies there is some kind of adhesive on their feet. |
LOL, exactly. Could be something like fusion pads on their feet, or some kind of hook/anchor system. Considering their low center of gravity when compared to an AT-AT, I can see AT-TE's being more capable of that sort of thing.
That brings up a good point. While the Jedi Academy book isn't that great (indicative of KJA's works as a whole), it does include the stats for the MT-AT, which is supposed to be able to climb straight up a wall. So what are the rules for this? What is the terrain modifier for climbing a vertical surface? What in the rules prevents every vehicle from doing just that (nothing)?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Anyone ever considered allowing more advanced bipedal walkers have emergency repulsorlift systems that kick in to help right the walker when they sense an imminent trip? Maybe even something that would allow a walker to make a repulsor-assisted jump to clear difficult terrain? Humans and other bipedal creatures are able to pick themselves back up after a fall, but a bipedal walker has no such ability. |
But then you are getting dangerously close the the question why one would bother with legs at all... 
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Anyone ever considered allowing more advanced bipedal walkers have emergency repulsorlift systems that kick in to help right the walker when they sense an imminent trip? Maybe even something that would allow a walker to make a repulsor-assisted jump to clear difficult terrain? Humans and other bipedal creatures are able to pick themselves back up after a fall, but a bipedal walker has no such ability. |
But then you are getting dangerously close the the question why one would bother with legs at all... |
HA!
But seriously, that's why I'm considering allowing surface vehicles added bonuses for terrain handling. Repulsorcraft get the speed, but the other vehicles get off-road handling ability (of varying degrees).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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ZzaphodD
Rear Admiral
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | ZzaphodD wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Anyone ever considered allowing more advanced bipedal walkers have emergency repulsorlift systems that kick in to help right the walker when they sense an imminent trip? Maybe even something that would allow a walker to make a repulsor-assisted jump to clear difficult terrain? Humans and other bipedal creatures are able to pick themselves back up after a fall, but a bipedal walker has no such ability. |
But then you are getting dangerously close the the question why one would bother with legs at all... |
HA!
But seriously, that's why I'm considering allowing surface vehicles added bonuses for terrain handling. Repulsorcraft get the speed, but the other vehicles get off-road handling ability (of varying degrees). |
But isnt the best terrain handling bonus to just float over it?
Walkers are one of those weird inconsistensies one have to accept when playing star wars...
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lurker
Commander
Joined: 24 Oct 2012
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Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
...
But isnt the best terrain handling bonus to just float over it?
Walkers are one of those weird inconsistensies one have to accept when playing star wars... |
Rgr on that  
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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I know the problem is more complicated than my current solution, but I still feel like there is something there. It just needs more thought...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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lurker
Commander
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I know the problem is more complicated than my current solution, but I still feel like there is something there. It just needs more thought... |
Maybe you (or we depending on how you look at it) are making it more complicated than it needs to be ...
You want a mid sized to small sized (compared to ATATs) troop carrier. Why make the ATST into a modified troop carrier (and larger/longer than the ATST). With that making it have balance issues and arguably less effective as the scout element of the mission.
It would be easier to justify a different AT craft that is on the height scale of an ATST but carries something like a (platoon or two) of troops. I'd lean towards it being 4 legged instead of 2 for balance with the increased length to hold the troops. However, I'd make it more leopard or cheetah like than Elephant (like the standard ATAT) to keep it close to the speed and agility of the ATST.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Actually, the visual I'm looking for is more along the lines of a biped dinosaur, sort of like this, but on a smaller scale, similar to the AT-ST in size.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Anyone ever considered allowing more advanced bipedal walkers have emergency repulsorlift systems that kick in to help right the walker when they sense an imminent trip? Maybe even something that would allow a walker to make a repulsor-assisted jump to clear difficult terrain? Humans and other bipedal creatures are able to pick themselves back up after a fall, but a bipedal walker has no such ability. |
But then you are getting dangerously close the the question why one would bother with legs at all... |
Curtis Saxton (of the Star Wars Technical Commentaries, and editor of the Incredible Cross-Sections books) has the following to say about walkers:
| Quote: | Possibly the best answer is found in the names of these vehicles - "all terrain". Walkers are good for negotiating extremely variable terrain strewn with obstacles. Although a repuslorlift vehicle of equivalent size may be faster, it is a single rigid object. A walker's flexibility makes it easier to deal with terrain features which are abrupt and comparable to the size of the vehicle itself. Additionally, Essential Guide to Vehicles & Vessels and other sources indicate that there are locations in the galaxy where unusually variable gravitational or magnetic conditions confound standard repulsorcraft.
Simply being in contact with the ground is an advantage for a walker. The ground is a potent device for vehicular control. A ground vehicle under fire or delivering its own momentous volleys is braced and supported by the ground. The advantage of traction allows a surface vehicle to stop, start and dodge in an instant, whereas a turning or braking aircraft has to use lateral thrusters or rely upon relatively tenuous frictional contact with the air. Crawlers share these benefits, but they lack the articulation that helps walkers on particularly rough terrain. |
You can read the full article here.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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lurker
Commander
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Actually, the visual I'm looking for is more along the lines of a biped dinosaur, sort of like this, but on a smaller scale, similar to the AT-ST in size. |
Nice, I like that ... well except for the tank turret on top, but that is just me being picky ...
Looking at the ATAT, it carries 20 (I'd say that is WAY to low of a number for something that sized) troops and 4 speeders etc ...
For this one, I'd say it could/should carry something like a combat load for the Chinook. Up to 20 troops if nothing else is carried, or 12-15 troops plus a ATV & extra equipment /supplies.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| lurker wrote: | | crmcneill wrote: | | Actually, the visual I'm looking for is more along the lines of a biped dinosaur, sort of like this, but on a smaller scale, similar to the AT-ST in size. |
Nice, I like that ... well except for the tank turret on top, but that is just me being picky ...
Looking at the ATAT, it carries 20 (I'd say that is WAY to low of a number for something that sized) troops and 4 speeders etc ...
For this one, I'd say it could/should carry something like a combat load for the Chinook. Up to 20 troops if nothing else is carried, or 12-15 troops plus a ATV & extra equipment /supplies. |
The artist calls it the All-Terrain Shock Enforcer, but its actually a good fit for the currently un-depicted All-Terrain Heavy Enforcer. It fits the description and could actually be considered a precursor to the AT-AT.
Looking closely at the design, I'm not sure I would put more than a single squad of troops on it, as most of the main body seems devoted to the turret.
The AT-HE would be more like a tank supporting the AT-TE (which is basically a Walker APC), with the missions of the two combined into one vehicle in the form of the AT-AT.
EDIT: Did you mean that the AT-AT carries only 20? Every stat I've read says it seats 40 (a full Imperial Army platoon), plus an upper deck garage with room for a 5-man scout lance plus their speeder bikes.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Darth Ginzain
Lieutenant
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| All this At-At has brought to mind a question I've had for 30 years. Other then the need to sell a new toy, why did the Alliance use snowspeeders against the walkers at Hoth instead of X-Wings. Okay sure the X-Wings were flying escort for the transports, but Rogue Squadron was flying the Snowspeeders and then jumped out of their Snowspeeders and into their X-Wings to leave Hoth. Which brings up another question. Death Squadron has something like 8 wings of Tie fighters. Veers isn't smart enough to request air support. Did Echo base have that much AAA that the Tie's were scared?? |
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lurker
Commander
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Posts: 423
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
EDIT: Did you mean that the AT-AT carries only 20? Every stat I've read says it seats 40 (a full Imperial Army platoon), plus an upper deck garage with room for a 5-man scout lance plus their speeder bikes. |
I read some where (I think wookiepedia, but may be wrong on that) that the AT-AT carried 20 troops + speaders.
With that, I agree 40 pax is what I expect to fit into something the size of an AT-AT.
| Darth Ginzain wrote: |
why did the Alliance use snowspeeders against the walkers at Hoth instead of X-Wings. Okay sure the X-Wings were flying escort for the transports, but Rogue Squadron was flying the Snowspeeders and then jumped out of their Snowspeeders and into their X-Wings to leave Hoth. Which brings up another question. Death Squadron has something like 8 wings of Tie fighters. Veers isn't smart enough to request air support. Did Echo base have that much AAA that the Tie's were scared??
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Rgr on that question, at least on the x wings. I always pictured Ties as being less prefered in atmospheric flight, so could see a lack of CAS on that side. However, the X-wing should be just as effective in the air as it is in space, sooooo ...
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Darth Ginzain wrote: | | All this At-At has brought to mind a question I've had for 30 years. Other then the need to sell a new toy, why did the Alliance use snowspeeders against the walkers at Hoth instead of X-Wings. Okay sure the X-Wings were flying escort for the transports, but Rogue Squadron was flying the Snowspeeders and then jumped out of their Snowspeeders and into their X-Wings to leave Hoth. Which brings up another question. Death Squadron has something like 8 wings of Tie fighters. Veers isn't smart enough to request air support. Did Echo base have that much AAA that the Tie's were scared?? |
This has long been one of the great unknowns of the SWU, and there are all kinds of theories. The truth could be any one of them, or any combination of them, and there are many unknown factors:
-Does the energy shield have a gap under it, or does it go all the way to the ground?
-Confined Airspace under the shield? Would the bigger, more powerful starfighters have sufficient room to maneuver?
-Inter-service Rivalry? Veers could've been arrogant enough to believe that he didn't need air support, and that his AT-ATs would be more than sufficient to perform the mission.
-Multiple Mission Requirements? Maybe the TIEs were on fleet patrol supporting the blockade? That's just four possibilities. In the end, the most likely answer is that the battle of Hoth happened the way it happened because His Exalted Flannelness thought it would look cool. If you want to tag on a practical tactical explanation, just come up with something that works for you and roll with it. That's what we do here, after all.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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lurker
Commander
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
..., just come up with something that works for you and roll with it. That's what we do here, after all. |
That is a great way to look at it !!!
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