AT-AT Mk. II

[CRMcNeill]

I came across an interesting idea for a walker design option. As things stand, putting the pilot, commander and gunners in the head makes for some interesting challenges when it comes to piloting and firing the weapons. IMO, the pilot having to deal with the constant visual and position shifts caused by the head moving about may have even been a contributing factor to AT-ATs being taken out by the cable attack. A less preoccupied pilot might've been able to be more aware of his surroundings and able to stop in time to keep from tripping.

Now here's the concept: Move the pilots to a fixed cockpit at the front of the upper deck level, while keeping the commander and the gunner in the head turret. The pilots now have a fixed forward field of vision, without constantly having to adjust their perspective to changes in the angle of the head & neck, and the AT-AT's head can move and fire independent of the movement of the walker itself. The only visual difference would be the addition of an armored view-slit above and behind the AT-AT's head.

Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Leon The Lion]

So the head becomes simply a turret for the walker's main armament, while the pilot has a stable position in relation to the whole vehicle? I can get behind that.

Actually, I'll move the commander to the new cockpit, too, especially if you add all the new turrets you have planned. And also give him a chair with safety belt, but that's just me.

Also, count me in the camp that don't really see a way to add the belly turret, even a remote-controlled one. The drive-train is in the way too much. Instead, I'd look at two smaller remote turrets, with one repeater each, mounted on the sides, on the armor flanges hanging down on the sides of the drive train, below and to the side of the troop doors. That way, you'll be able to by-pass the drive-train problem and the field-of fire problem both.
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[CRMcNeill]

[Leon The Lion]

I just had a thought. If the turret was remote-controlled, you could lenghten the armor flanges on the sides of the drive train to extend all the way down to below the belly, and connect them with a sort of "bridge" between the legs, that you could then mount the turret on. It looks doable, and would take care of the problem. Otherwise, you would need to move the front and back drive-train to be wider apart, and that, while doable, would be a more difficult, expensive modification to make.

Hm, I suddenly have a craving to make an AT-AT pic in the SWDA M20 scale..
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Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
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- Tom Lehrer

[CRMcNeill]

[Leon The Lion]

OK, the side view is coming along nicely, a no-frills version should be ready in a couple days. Other views and possibly a (rudimentary at least) deckplan will appear eventually, but will take much longer - I have too many things to do lately, the urge to draw AT-AT struck at a somewhat unfortunate moment.

So how exactly do you imagine the tail turret? How is it mounted, what shape is it?

I also notice, despite adding all those weapons you haven't reduced the original troop capacity. Any rationale for this? Because I don't think that's possible.

Also, the 15.5m height you used is outdated data and most definitely incorrect based on the movie visuals. Current visdom puts the AT-AT between 20 and 25 meters in height. Wookipedia lists 22.5m, and I used this measurment for my pic.

You can find a great analisis of the AT-AT size and movement ability here:
http://www.suave.net/~dave/atat.cgi?version=ref
_________________
Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
- Tom Lehrer

[CRMcNeill]

[schnarre]

...Probably unrelated, but this thread reminded me of something I had in my original setting (goes back a while!):


All-Terrain Heavy Turbolaser (AT-HT)
Craft= Imperial All-Terrain Heavy Turbolaser
Type=Fire Support Walker
Scale=Walker
Crew=3, +5 Gunners
Passengers=10 (troops)
Cover=Full
Cost=N/A
Speed Code=21; 60 kmh
Maneuverability=---
Body Strength=6D
:Weapons:
1 Heavy Turbolaser (front) (FR=1/2)(*)
FC:1D Damage:7D (Capital) (Crew=3)
Range: Space=3-15/35/75 Atmosphere=300-1.5 km/3.5/7.5
2 Twin Light Blaster Cannons (1 Left, 1 Right)
FC:1D Damage:2D (Walker)
Range: 50-300/500/1 km


(OOC: In my original campaign, these apeared during the Rebellion Era--to the horror of those who would end up on the business end of this vehicle! )


The All-Terrain Heavy Turbolaser came about through a combination of desparation, necessity, & outside perspective. Though a number of SPHAATs were still to be found in service following the Clone Wars, they still had their limitations. As time progressed into the Rebellion Era some Imperial Commanders saw the need for a mobile artillery piece that could support ground assault by AT-ATs or other forces. Though the Leveler-1 Missle System was effective, it's need for ammunition was a hinderance in long-term campaigns; the older "Grandfather Gun", though still quite effective, lacked the mobility necessary--not to mention taking forever to set up in position. The Atgar Tower lacked a significant punch, as well as exposing crew to enemy fire. Due to the effectiveness of TIE/gts, TIE Bombers, & later the Scimitar Assault Bombers the Imperial Army would have to wait for what seemed like eons before any submissions could be made.
Ironically, it was during the Rebels' assault on the Imperial Base on Detaullis 4 that the initial version of the AT-HT actually saw action. Outnumbered by the Rebels by at least 2-1, for one of the only times in the conflict, the Imperials were scraping together whatever they could for a final stand. Using an AT-AT's chassis, the Turbolaser off of a destroyed Carrack-class Light Cruiser, & welding a grounded Chariot Command speeder onto the exterior to serve as a command console the Techs pieced together their 1 big hope for holding out until reinforcements could arrive. With the Rebels massing for the attack, & possessing 100% air superiority over the battlefied, they were confident of victory & by all accounts would have prevailed.
At dawn, the Rebel attack began. The Rebels employed a number of Atgar Towers in the attack to soften up the lighter opposition they expected before charging the Imperials. Unbeknownst to the Rebels, the Imperials' new secret weapon was poised to undergo its trial-by-fire. The first blast from the turbolaser cut a swath of death & confusion throughout the Rebel ranks, which gave the Imperials precious time to fire again. Scores of Rebels were killed or wounded, & the retreat began. The Rebels' combat airspeeders would put the new weapon out of action, but not before its final shot silenced the Rebels' own artillery; in any event the airspeeders succeeded in putting it out of action, but it was too late to save the offensive & the airspeeders alone could not occupy territory. Imperial losses were few, & most of those were assigned to the weapon, while Rebel losses were horrendous. With reinforcements arriving soon after, Rebel activity on Detaullis 4 came to an end: Rebel/New Republic historians still referred to this battle as a reason for not employing conventional warfare. Though the Imperial personnel were commended for their actions on that day, the precursor to the AT-HT was never employed again & both sides eventually forgot about it.
When the Empire's Remenant allied with the Ralleak Commonality the need for a mobile artillery piece to support ground assault, freeing up valuable air assets, was still having a hard time getting off the ground. Ralleak Engineers had a few ideas of their own, but one by the name of Ahdric D'Tellis came across a record of the Detaullis 4 engagement. Realizing that the basics had already been ironed out in combat conditions, it would simply be a matter of refining it for production--eliminating R&D costs would save millions of credits & speed up assembly, being mass-producable in scant weeks. D'Tellis prepared a number of simulations based on existing data as well as projected figures & the reborn weapon's potential was such that it could not be ignored. The Imperial Army placed an order for 12 prototypes as fast as they could be built, & a Ralleak factory was re-tooled to carry out the task--Imperial factories were having a hard time keeping up with demand as it was, & this enabled the Ralleaks to build up their own infrastructure to augment that of their allies. In only 2 months the first of the new class designated the All-Terrain Heavy Turbolaser, or AT-HT, came off the assembly line & was assigned to the Empire's 123rd Armored Corps for field testing.
The new walker earned a favorable reputation pretty quickly! It had the same mobility as the AT-AT which made coordination easier for field commanders; being a mobile artillery piece it could extract itself from ambushes; using much of the same structure as the AT-AT, it could fit in the same amount of space which helped quartermasters; it's heavy firepower was significant enough to blast through nearly all opposition that could be encountered; & it was durable enough to hold up in heavy fighting. The AT-HT's real success was in terms of logistics: the main weapon was already in use on the Carrack, Imperial II, & other Capital ships so service skills & spare parts were already available; its secondary guns were the same as those in use on the AT-ST, again allowing for commonality of spare parts; it's command section still resembled the Chariot Command Speeder, & it used the same electronics with only a few additions.
Only a few complaints were voiced about it, but these were not too serious. The main gripe being that the accuracy of the main weapon dropped significantly if it tried to fire while moving: a crack marksman could make use of it, but the rank & file could not. Also the gun could not elevate its trajectory above 20 degrees, nor depress it to fire downward, which limited its arc of fire--it was a "front towards enemy" design. It also could not shoot at aerial targets like the AT-AT could, however this was seen as only a minor problem as the two types were to be paired together on missions.
Pirates, & New Republic forces have learned a grudging respect for this walker in the days following the Yuuzhan Vong invasion--indeed, the Vong themselves have a particular loathing for it. In a static defensive position, it has no peer.


...I confess to my still loathing the NJO-period & the Vong war, but I digress. Even in 1st Ed. this was not something Rebel PCs wanted to square off with--the largest such unit I threw at them was 4 of these with 12 At-Ats, & flanked with AT-STs. Essentially, built around the weapon, it amounts to a box with guns & limited troop carrying ability.
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The man who thinks he knows everything is most annoying for those of us that do.

[Fallon Kell]

My two cents: The only terrain I've heard of AT-ATs having trouble in is downtown urban. I suppose tight canyons would also apply.

If I put a ball turret on a Walker, I'd be tempted to make it a quad, paint it pink, and mount it a ways aft...

I'd also suggest armored, shuttered loopholes from which infantry inside the walker could fire. 20 riflemen behind that much armor can be a serious antipersonnel threat.
_________________
Or that excessively long "Noooooooooo" was the Whining Side of the Force leaving him. - Dustflier

Complete Starship Construction System

[jmanski]

[Leon The Lion]

So, here it is. It's not perfect, but close enough for goverment work, I'd say.
Here are no frills - which in this case means no shading - side views in the standard SWDA M20 scale (20 pixels to a meter).

The standard AT-AT "Mk.I":



And a first attempt on crmcneill's Mk.II upgrade:



What you think, c? About right?

I used the image from "The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels" as base, rescaling it and touching it up. Using the 22.5m height stipulated by Wookipedia, the other dimentions of the Mk.I come out as 25.5m length and 6.6m width at the body, 9.1m at the feet.

Front, back and top views, as well as a deckplan will be coming later, but much later I'm afraid. Betwen work and other projects which really should have priority, I just have too much to do right now.
_________________
Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
- Tom Lehrer

[CRMcNeill]

Looks good to me.

The difference in sizes on the various drawings does raise a question; if they can seat 40 troopers and five speeder bike scouts in the Incredible Cross-Sections book, and justify it by fitting them all in the drawing, wouldn't your larger and more authentic version actually have room for more than 40 passengers?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Leon The Lion]

I've been wondering about that myself. The bus I take to work can seat close to 40 people, and carry a good amount of baggage in addition, and it's internal volume would easily fit into the AT-AT. I mean, that thing is X-Box hueg!

As to the Cross-Sections book, what it says and what it shows do not entirely match. It's a little hard to accurately judge size from the cross-section image, but in comparison to the troopers the walker seems to be closer to 20m than 15m, at least to my eye.

A proper deckplan should provide the answer to how many troops the AT-AT can really fit in.
_________________
Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
- Tom Lehrer

[CRMcNeill]

Good answer.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Leon The Lion]

I thought I drop by to assure everybody the project is not dead. It's progressing, slowly but nicely. I'm actually close to having a finished deckplan.

Which brings me to the AT-AT's transport capacity. One word: huge. As we suspected, the canon value of 40 troopers and 5 biker scouts seems to be an understatement, and a serious one at that. Developing a deckplan based on the new cannon height of 22.5m, I was able to pretty handily fit in the 5-man scout lance, 4 deck officers, and no less than 76 troops - two full platoons according to the 2e Imperial Soucebook - with a bit of space left for stowing additional equipment, like a few heavy repeaters for heavy weapon squads. That's a lot of man-power. And the vehicle seems big enough that a modified version actually could carry two AT-STs internally instead of the troops, like the writeup claims, but I'll have to work on that to make sure.

On the other hand, the writeup looks to be overly optimistic concerning the AT-AT head's fire arc. Taking into account the width of the head, the body and the length of the neck, I see no way the head could be able to cover the side fire arcs. It has enough freedom of movement for the weapons to cover the front arc nicely, despite being fixed. However, the only way I could see the head even peeking into a side arc, let alone covering it all, would be for the neck to be able stretch to about three times normal length, and be flexible like a tentacle while at it. In short, I don't believe the fire arcs are correct.
_________________
Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes,
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes! So don't shade your eyes,
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize... Only be sure to call it, please, "research".
- Tom Lehrer