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What is the best way to watch the films? (viewing order)
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klhaviation wrote:
Well that is quite a strong sentiment, your defense of the semantics of the proposed forum question is noted and accurate, albeit a bit legalistic.But in the spirit of community unity, and to stay on topic,I propose my order of the six films.
4,5,1,2,3,6

It is very unfortunately that people can't self-moderate their own hatred, but until that happens moderators have to step in with "legalism" to defend against the internet plague that is film-bashing. It's overly negative. The good people of the internet don't want to read all that negativity, and they are much less likely to participate in discussions when it is permitted to fester unchecked.


I think we're getting away from what this topic is really all about. Lucas started with one movie with a backstory. Then fleshed out the one story to a trilogy, and decided the backstory could likewise be expanded. 1 movie became six. The only reason that we got the second trilogy first is because that was the original story Lucas came up with and the characters he felt most comfortable with. RotJ is the end of Lucas' story.

RotS is an awful way to end the six-film saga. What a downer! During the production of the prequels Lucas said, 'With the prequels, it's not what happened because you already know that (Anakin becomes Vader, the Republic becomes the Empire, etc.) - It's how it happened.' The only reason he said that is because that was the only way to sell it. The story had already ended so the prequels were only filling in blanks in the backstory. Watching the films in order of release means after the resolution of the Jedi defeating the Sith at the end of RotJ, you get 3 more movies with increasingly more dark and depressing endings.

Also, my decision for the proper viewing order for my son is the only for the first time he sees each episode. My son will be free to decide each episode's value, and if he decides that the last two prequels are worthless "pieces of junk" then that will be his choice. He won't have to watch them again, if he doesn't want to. But me saving RotJ to the end is saving a happy ending for last, the resolution to a dramatically up and down saga.

My original intended viewing order for my son was the same as it was for my wife: strait chronological, 1-6. That way you wouldn't know anything that happened next and any character could die at an time. But not only would that hold off the entire classic trilogy until he is mature enough for RotS, that would also "spoil" TESB. My current intended order preserves the dramatic father revelation in TESB and still saves the final outcome for last, ending on a good note.

And RotS is loaded with delightful parallels with RotJ. I feel that dramatically, watching RotJ soon after RotS intensifies the drama of RotJ. Anyway, I would have thought that even prequel-haters would appreciate that I wanted the story to end with RotJ, but it seems that I am wrong.
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klhaviation
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:

I feel that dramatically, watching RotJ soon after RotS intensifies the drama of RotJ. I would have thought that even prequel-haters would appreciate that I wanted the story to end with RotJ, but it seems that I am wrong.


I whole-heartedly agree with this.
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prequel-haters (wonderfully pejorative, that) hate the prequels, and thus would not recommend watching them at all.

I'm not a prequel-hater myself. Just a prequel-highly-disappointed-er. And from that perspective... I'm thinking more and more that I'd hate to cloud a newcomer's view of what Star Wars is with what I consider to lack the tone of Star Wars before finishing showing them the good stuff. And again, as someone that remembers what it was like first getting to see the films, I know I'd have wanted the choice to go straight from ESB to ROTJ, not jump over to films whose characters and story I did not care about before being able to finish the story that I did care about. (At the time, it wasn't an issue, as there were only three films).

I think, with no waiting involved, that 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6 might still be a decent order for completionists; for adults that want to see all of Star Wars. But to me, at least, I would show kids, or adults that are curious and may or may not stick with the series, 4-5-6... and then let them decide if they even want to watch the prequels. To my mind, the average grown-up that wasn't pre-comitted to watching them all using the 4-5-1-2-3-6 order will probably call it quits after 2, if not after 1... and the average kid deserves not to have to wait for eligibility to a second story he may or may not care for in order to finish the first. But then, that's just my perspective on the saga. To me, the OT has all the drama it needs, self-contained, while the prequels have... very little to offer outside the first 20 minutes of TPM and the last 20 of ROTS. Obviously, to those who find equal value in both trilogies, the perspective is different.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

klhaviation wrote:
Whill wrote:
I feel that dramatically, watching RotJ soon after RotS intensifies the drama of RotJ. I would have thought that even prequel-haters would appreciate that I wanted the story to end with RotJ

I whole-heartedly agree with this.

There's one. Cool.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Prequel-haters (wonderfully pejorative, that)

I guess that is. I'm truly sorry if that offended you. The prequels haters themselves don't bother me nearly as much as the prequel hatING. It is careless (and rude) of me not to differentiate.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
I'm not a prequel-hater myself. Just a prequel-highly-disappointed-er. And from that perspective... I'm thinking more and more that I'd hate to cloud a newcomer's view of what Star Wars is with what I consider to lack the tone of Star Wars before finishing showing them the good stuff. And again, as someone that remembers what it was like first getting to see the films, I know I'd have wanted the choice to go straight from ESB to ROTJ, not jump over to films whose characters and story I did not care about before being able to finish the story that I did care about. (At the time, it wasn't an issue, as there were only three films).

I think, with no waiting involved, that 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6 might still be a decent order for completionists; for adults that want to see all of Star Wars. But to me, at least, I would show kids, or adults that are curious and may or may not stick with the series, 4-5-6... and then let them decide if they even want to watch the prequels. To my mind, the average grown-up that wasn't pre-comitted to watching them all using the 4-5-1-2-3-6 order will probably call it quits after 2, if not after 1... and the average kid deserves not to have to wait for eligibility to a second story he may or may not care for in order to finish the first. But then, that's just my perspective on the saga. To me, the OT has all the drama it needs, self-contained, while the prequels have... very little to offer outside the first 20 minutes of TPM and the last 20 of ROTS. Obviously, to those who find equal value in both trilogies, the perspective is different.

Thanks for playing along.

I feel you have a skewed view of "average" adults and children. My wife was not into sci-fi, had no particular interest in Star Wars and had made it to her mid-thirties without having viewed any Star Wars film. In late 2005 she watched them in strait chronological order with a couple weeks in between each episode. She did not lose interest after the prequels, even after not enjoying II and III themselves much due to Anakin's darkness. After the Sith killed off most of the Jedi and took over the galaxy, she was dying to find out how Anakin's babies grew up and became heroes in this evil empire. She was craving the classic trilogy after watching the prequels. At the end of RotS, she had a new hope for happy endings.

As far as average children go, I feel it is at least safe to say that is not true for boys. Average boys like Star Wars, and people who are currently still children that like Star Wars tend to like the prequels more than the original films.

And even though there are no average Star Wars fans here, in general they love the prequels. Box office sales alone prove that. So in general I find the notion completely unfounded that your average person watching the prequels before RotJ would lose interest and not want to see if Luke kills his father and/or crosses over to Dark Side, or how the Jedi return and destroy the Sith.

And even for yourself, it is pure speculation how you personally would have appreciated Star Wars differently if you watched my current choice for my son's first time viewing order, because you watched them in the order you did. And like you said, if you place no value in the prequel films then that informs your perspective. Your perspective is somewhat typical among older fans who saw the classic films first and a long time before the prequels, but not typical among average movie goers or average Star Wars fans.

I speculate that a lot of the Jar Jar haters (term just meant descriptively) would have been eating that stuff up if they had seen that when they were 5 instead of 27. I also speculate that I would have loved every Star Wars film regardless of what order I watched them in. But I admit that is speculation. I personally don't bother considering What Ifs for myself because it's pointless. The past can't be undone.

And besides, I never offered an order for people in general. I specifically was giving an order for MY son's fist viewings. His mother saw the prequels before RotJ and still loves RotJ (but not more than TESB, her personal favorite film of the whole saga). And my son's father is an atypical 1st generation Star Wars fan who loves all the films despite their imperfections (which even the classic films have).
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
I feel you have a skewed view of "average" adults and children. My wife was not into sci-fi, had no particular interest in Star Wars and had made it to her mid-thirties without having viewed any Star Wars film. In late 2005 she watched them in strait chronological order with a couple weeks in between each episode. She did not lose interest after the prequels, even after not enjoying II and III themselves much due to Anakin's darkness. After the Sith killed off most of the Jedi and took over the galaxy, she was dying to find out how Anakin's babies grew up and became heroes in this evil empire. She was craving the classic trilogy after watching the prequels. At the end of RotS, she had a new hope for happy endings.

As far as average children go, I feel it is at least safe to say that is not true for boys. Average boys like Star Wars, and people who are currently still children that like Star Wars tend to like the prequels more than the original films.

And even though there are no average Star Wars fans here, in general they love the prequels. Box office sales alone prove that. So in general I find the notion completely unfounded that your average person watching the prequels before RotJ would lose interest and not want to see if Luke kills his father and/or crosses over to Dark Side, or how the Jedi return and destroy the Sith.

And even for yourself, it is pure speculation how you personally would have appreciated Star Wars differently if you watched my current choice for my son's first time viewing order, because you watched them in the order you did. And like you said, if you place no value in the prequel films then that informs your perspective. Your perspective is somewhat typical among older fans who saw the classic films first and a long time before the prequels, but not typical among average movie goers or average Star Wars fans.

I speculate that a lot of the Jar Jar haters (term just meant descriptively) would have been eating that stuff up if they had seen that when they were 5 instead of 27. I also speculate that I would have loved every Star Wars film regardless of what order I watched them in. But I admit that is speculation. I personally don't bother considering What Ifs for myself because it's pointless. The past can't be undone.

And besides, I never offered an order for people in general. I specifically was giving an order for MY son's fist viewings. His mother saw the prequels before RotJ and still loves RotJ (but not more than TESB, her personal favorite film of the whole saga). And my son's father is an atypical 1st generation Star Wars fan who loves all the films despite their imperfections (which even the classic films have).


Hear, Hear! I found myself originally attempting to quote just a portion of Whill's post, but it kept getting bigger and bigger, pretty much encompassing his whole post!

While it is often "trendy" among older generation fanboys to dis on the prequels, it is worth noting that they are (and were) wildly popular. Not only with children (who I find generally far prefer them to the OT), but also among adults. In my estimation it is only the older generation SW fans who spew venom and vitriol, as if George Lucas came into their bedroom and stole their favorite blankie! Wink The biggest money making movie of the SW franchise is Episode I (and it's the only one in the all-time worldwide box office top 20). It's the only SW film to gross (by itself) over a billion dollars. I know many adults (including myself) who love the film. When you adjust for inflation, it's worth noting that Episode IV is the second most popular (and money making) film of all time, after "Gone with the Wind". ESB is #12 and RotJ is #15. But TPM is #17, with its numbers 96% as much as RotJ (making it effectively about the same in popularity).

I'm actually surprised sometimes at the dislike among SW fans. To me EI is far superior to EVI, and when EIII came out (though it is much darker) I expected that the fans would finally have a prequel that they like better than some of the OT. I now firmly believe that some of the "dislike" is preconditioned and irrational, much like prejudices can be.

Even the way Zarm wrote about wanting to continue with the story of characters he cared about shows that he forgot that the entire six part saga is about the same characters! It's not just Vader that is in all of them. There's also Obi-Wan, and Yoda, and R2, and Threepio, and..,oh, never mind. None of us are going to convince the other of anything here.

Just be advised that the (very typical) prequel bashing or dislike is by no means shared by all SW fans. Nor is it "typical" of the vast majority of adults or movie fans. Each of the movies (with hundreds of thousands of entries) is popular with the people, liked (and often loved) by the vast majority of people who watch them, according to sites like Rotten Tomatoes.
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We clearly frequent different Star Wars fandom circles. For every person you seem to be surrounded by that loves the prequels, I'm surrounded by one who can't even get through them. So, yeah- I guess we have different experiences of average.


Whill wrote:
I guess that is. I'm truly sorry if that offended you. The prequels haters themselves don't bother me nearly as much as the prequel hatING.


Not at all, as I don't self-identify with that group. That said, I can feel your pain- as you remember from our EU/Legends discussion. We each have those things that have us going "How could any sane person NOT like this? How could any sane person like THAT?" To jump universes, that Star Trek's IDIC in action- infinite diversity. Unfortunately, when it comes to opinions, you can always find someone who will like a think and another that will hate it...


Whill wrote:
And even though there are no average Star Wars fans here, in general they love the prequels. Box office sales alone prove that. So in general I find the notion completely unfounded that your average person watching the prequels before RotJ would lose interest and not want to see if Luke kills his father and/or crosses over to Dark Side, or how the Jedi return and destroy the Sith.


Ah, but we're not talking about the average fan here- we're talking about the average first-time casual viewer. The one we're trying to *make* a fan. Personally, I can't think of a less-likely way to do that than with "Mesa called Jar-Jar Binks!" and "I hate sand...". But then, my experience has been primarily with people who look at that and go 'this is terrible, why would I want to watch more of this?' Clearly, there are people who instead go 'This is awesome! Next one! Next one!'


Whill wrote:
I speculate that a lot of the Jar Jar haters (term just meant descriptively) would have been eating that stuff up if they had seen that when they were 5 instead of 27.


Fair enough. TPM and AOTC were both the coolest things I'd ever seen just after I watched them- until I watched them a second time and found nothing beneath the glitter. It's the films with depth and story- the OT- that have actually endured as fandom, but as a kid, sure, I dug them. I just wouldn't have wanted to wait years of my life for Jedi to see them. And yeah, that's speculation- but I also think it's pretty accurate.


Whill wrote:
And besides, I never offered an order for people in general.


I know. I wasn't trying to offer my orders there as a rebuttal, just trying to get back on topic. Since a lot of our conversation informed my solidifying thoughts on what order would be appropriate, I referenced them in my reasoning- which probably made it sound like I was just trying to debate your order again. Sorry.


DougRed4 wrote:
While it is often "trendy" among older generation fanboys to dis on the prequels,


Attempt to discredit opposing viewpoint as group-think noted. Wink Me, I don't care what the trend is... I just don't see any of the spirit of Star Wars (as I waxed poetic about over on the Rebels board) in these films. If you've ever seen Harry Plinkett's videos, he makes the case for the objective basic filmmaking issues of the films better than I could.

Look, I have had to erase opinions that I'd written and speculations on the mindset of those that like the prequels, like, 12-dozen times in the last few days. Smile I do that because such 'crtific' is not fair, it's insulting, and it's just my viewpoint- I might think the people that look at something and see worth in it are crazy, but I know others think the same of me for some of the stuff I like. (The first Star Trek movie for 1987, for instance). So, I try to refrain. I *get* that the prequels are popular. Even if I think they are objectively bad, I don't deny that they have subjective popularity... and that my belief that they are objectively bad is, itself, subjective.

But they do also have flaws, and- in the tone of the intended thread subject- I think those flaws are sufficient, and widely-enough recognized, that the films make a poor introduction to anyone who isn't a fan, and a poor prize to make anyone sit through to wait for the conclusion of Luke and Han and Leia's story (And honestly, yeah, there are some of the same characters in the films- but the prequels in no way continue the story of ESB, nor do they focus on the same primary characters (just share some of the same supporting characters), so no, I did not 'forget' anything about the saga, and no, the prequels do not continue the main narrative of the OT); nor do I think it adds much of anything to Vader's story (in fact, I think the prequels diminish him and his arc, personally, turning into someone you root for LESS than the imagined backstory of Anakin derived solely from the OT, where he's a mere cipher instead of an actively-unlikeable jerk)- and certainly not sufficient to delay the conclusion for. Hence, the reasoning for my order. Not because I think that no one likes the prequels, but because I think it will not add in any constructive way to a first-time viewing of the saga.

Now, clearly, that is just my opinion (which is basically what this thread is about; people's opinions about the best order and why)- it holds true for almost everyone that I've talked Star Wars with... but then, it clearly doesn't hold true for Whill, or his wife, or yourself, so it's clearly not a universally-applicable opinion, any more than Whill's proposed order would work on most of my friends.

I suspect there is no one correct order because not everyone is going to respond the same way. We each have our preferences and our reasons, our appreciation of the films and the people around us informing much about them. As we've each stated them, perhaps we ought to end the discussion here. I don't really want to argue with you fellas- this has turned into enough of a debate as it is. Essentially, we all have different ideas of what Star Wars is, and different things that touch our spirit- fuel our imaginations and fire our passions. Those factors lead us to gravitate toward different groupings of media with the 'Star Wars' brand label on them- and as DougRed4 wisely points out, no amount of debate or discussion is going to dissuade people from what stirs our souls at such a fundamental level. Not all of 'my' Star Wars is your Star Wars, and not all of 'yours' is mine... but there are some parts, at least, that we can all agree is great Star Wars- that intersect on the Venn Diagram of our fandom. Let's focus on those- and know that the areas that fall outside of that intersection, hard as they may be for us to comprehend liking or dislike, dwell at a level deeper than discourse can dislodge or alter.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
DougRed4 wrote:
While it is often "trendy" among older generation fanboys to dis on the prequels,


Attempt to discredit opposing viewpoint as group-think noted. Wink Me, I don't care what the trend is... I just don't see any of the spirit of Star Wars (as I waxed poetic about over on the Rebels board) in these films. If you've ever seen Harry Plinkett's videos, he makes the case for the objective basic filmmaking issues of the films better than I could.

Look, I have had to erase opinions that I'd written and speculations on the mindset of those that like the prequels, like, 12-dozen times in the last few days. Smile I do that because such 'crtific' is not fair, it's insulting, and it's just my viewpoint- I might think the people that look at something and see worth in it are crazy, but I know others think the same of me for some of the stuff I like. (The first Star Trek movie for 1987, for instance). So, I try to refrain. I *get* that the prequels are popular. Even if I think they are objectively bad, I don't deny that they have subjective popularity... and that my belief that they are objectively bad is, itself, subjective.

But they do also have flaws, and- in the tone of the intended thread subject- I think those flaws are sufficient, and widely-enough recognized, that the films make a poor introduction to anyone who isn't a fan, and a poor prize to make anyone sit through to wait for the conclusion of Luke and Han and Leia's story (And honestly, yeah, there are some of the same characters in the films- but the prequels in no way continue the story of ESB, nor do they focus on the same primary characters (just share some of the same supporting characters), so no, I did not 'forget' anything about the saga, and no, the prequels do not continue the main narrative of the OT); nor do I think it adds much of anything to Vader's story (in fact, I think the prequels diminish him and his arc, personally, turning into someone you root for LESS than the imagined backstory of Anakin derived solely from the OT, where he's a mere cipher instead of an actively-unlikeable jerk)- and certainly not sufficient to delay the conclusion for. Hence, the reasoning for my order. Not because I think that no one likes the prequels, but because I think it will not add in any constructive way to a first-time viewing of the saga.

Now, clearly, that is just my opinion (which is basically what this thread is about; people's opinions about the best order and why)- it holds true for almost everyone that I've talked Star Wars with... but then, it clearly doesn't hold true for Whill, or his wife, or yourself, so it's clearly not a universally-applicable opinion, any more than Whill's proposed order would work on most of my friends.

I suspect there is no one correct order because not everyone is going to respond the same way. We each have our preferences and our reasons, our appreciation of the films and the people around us informing much about them. As we've each stated them, perhaps we ought to end the discussion here. I don't really want to argue with you fellas- this has turned into enough of a debate as it is. Essentially, we all have different ideas of what Star Wars is, and different things that touch our spirit- fuel our imaginations and fire our passions. Those factors lead us to gravitate toward different groupings of media with the 'Star Wars' brand label on them- and as DougRed4 wisely points out, no amount of debate or discussion is going to dissuade people from what stirs our souls at such a fundamental level. Not all of 'my' Star Wars is your Star Wars, and not all of 'yours' is mine... but there are some parts, at least, that we can all agree is great Star Wars- that intersect on the Venn Diagram of our fandom. Let's focus on those- and know that the areas that fall outside of that intersection, hard as they may be for us to comprehend liking or dislike, dwell at a level deeper than discourse can dislodge or alter.


Well put, Zarm R'keeg. And I apologize for lumping you in with the many, as you've clearly articulated your reasons and rationale for the way you feel.

FWIW, I'm not blind to many of the flaws of the prequels. I just see some of those same flaws in the OT and choose to appreciate the larger whole, as I feel all six films very much capture the same magic of the saga as a whole.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish that I did, believe me- it would make everything a lot easier. Smile I'm not blind to the flaws of the OT, either- it's just a certain spirit that is captured there (as articulated partially on the Rebels thread) that I don't see in the PT (or CW, or even a lot of the post-NJO EU, to be fair). Those that do are the fortunate ones- who doesn't want to love more Star Wars?- I'm just not among them.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug, I didn't mean to you exclude you (and the others here) from older SW fans that appreciate the whole saga like myself. (My favorite SW film is ANH, but my 2nd is TPM, 3rd is RotS, 4th is RotJ, 5th is TESB and last is AotC.) Both trilogies have a lot of great stuff. Both trilogies have goofy kiddie stuff, hokey effects and bad acting.

Of course worldwide gross means little to a film's intrinsic qualities as a film or Star Wars episode, but it is a clear marker of general popularity among movie watchers in general, which is relevant to the discussion of new first-time viewers of the Star Wars series. From a statistical perspective (I do have a bachelor degree in mathematics), it is not logical to assume that the population of those who haven't yet seen Star Wars would respond significantly different than the immense cross-section of those who have already seen all the films (and liked them all).

I'm not sure why several fans that spew venom and vitriol (or extreme disappointment) think that my son would respond to the prequels as they did, or bother to tell me how they would react if they were my son. They are not my son. My son may or may not like any of the films, but he will not learn hatred, negativity or any kind of bias from me. He will decide for himself. I have actually been "warned" multiple times in various ways that I am ruining my son's experience of Star Wars, and it's baffling to me. It seems to me that fans who happen to dislike the prequels in general have a very difficult time understanding why everyone else doesn't feel the same way they do. They commonly assume that any new viewers of Star Wars will respond the same way they did. I feel that in general I have a much easier time in seeing the points and understanding the feelings of prequel-detractors than they do at understanding my appreciation for the films.

And there is also a very practical reason for my son's order, again, to preserve the drama of the beloved TESB. Some parents are very careless what they show their kids, not exercising parental guidance and just letting their kids watch anything. And most of these parents also aren't concerned with appropriate viewing order of the Star Wars for their own kids. Some of these parents are the parents of my son's friends. It's only a matter of time before someone spoils my son on Vader's revelation to Luke. Since I feel strongly that his viewing order of the original six films should end with Return of the Jedi, the actual conclusion of the saga, putting AotC and RotS after TESB means that he gets to watch TESB sooner because TESB doesn't require the same level of maturity. The sooner he gets to watch TESB, the better the chance that he'll get Vader's revelation from Vader himself before some little punk ruins it. Then later he will see Anakin start down the path of the Dark Side in AotC, and then still later see the confirmation of Vader's revelation to Luke in all its epic tragic evil glory in RotS instead of on Yoda's death bed in RotJ. ("Your father he is. Told you, did he?") And again, since these viewings won't be back-to-back, before each new episode we will re-watch the chronologically prior films that he has already seen, likely ending the sequence with a bi-trilogy week that newly caps off both trilogies. Then he's start a new trilogy in order of release. 8)

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
We clearly frequent different Star Wars fandom circles.

Clearly (except for the Pit).

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Ah, but we're not talking about the average fan here- we're talking about the average first-time casual viewer. The one we're trying to *make* a fan. Personally, I can't think of a less-likely way to do that than with "Mesa called Jar-Jar Binks!" and "I hate sand...". But then, my experience has been primarily with people who look at that and go 'this is terrible, why would I want to watch more of this?'

Which leads to a question I have never heard an explanation for from those with "extreme disappointment" in the prequels... Why did you keep watching? If TPM was so horrible after the second viewing, why did you watch AotC? If that was so bad after two viewings, why did you even bother with RotS at all? You said you were extremely disappointed in the prequels, but why would you keep a such a high expectation for each film as you saw them? It seems that you unnecessarily set yourself up for your own continued disappointment and unhappiness.

Haters keep watching just to have more to criticize others with. If you are not a hater, great! But then I just don't understand why you would just keep watching and allowing yourself to be disappointed again and again. If you don't enjoy being negative and criticizing others, then I would think you would have bailed on the prequels to spare yourself.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Clearly, there are people who instead go 'This is awesome! Next one! Next one!'

I think the odds are clearly stacked in favor of my son falling into this category. In so many ways, he's a chip off the ol' block. 8)

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
I *get* that the prequels are popular. Even if I think they are objectively bad, I don't deny that they have subjective popularity... and that my belief that they are objectively bad is, itself, subjective.

Dude, that doesn't make any sense. If something is subjective (like personal judgments of movies being good or bad), then it can't also be objective. I'll fix it for you: "my belief that they are bad is, itself, subjective."

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
no, the prequels do not continue the main narrative of the OT

This we agree on. That's why I feel my son should watch the prequels before the conclusion of the OT, RotJ.

Zarm R'keeg wrote:
Not all of 'my' Star Wars is your Star Wars, and not all of 'yours' is mine... but there are some parts, at least, that we can all agree is great Star Wars- that intersect on the Venn Diagram of our fandom. Let's focus on those

I so much wish that were more often the case.
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DougRed4
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Doug, I didn't mean to you exclude you (and the others here) from older SW fans that appreciate the whole saga like myself. (My favorite SW film is ANH, but my 2nd is TPM, 3rd is RotS, 4th is RotJ, 5th is TESB and last is AotC.) Both trilogies have a lot of great stuff. Both trilogies have goofy kiddie stuff, hokey effects and bad acting.


No problem at all, Whill. I didn't feel excluded by you (or anyone else).

It's interesting to consider one's favorite films in order. To me ANH is #1 (WAY out in front), and I suppose the order for me would then go ESB, RotS, TPM, RotJ, and then AotC. Though a few of those are probably tied or very close (I wonder myself if I put AotC behind RotJ because it's bashed so often).
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:33 pm    Post subject: HTTYD 2 - SPOILER ALERT Reply with quote

I took my 5-year-old to his first movie in the theater a couple weeks ago. We saw How to Train your Dragon 2 at the second run theater, and I'm pleased to report my son did great. He didn't even need a restroom break during the movie, just sitting there quietly the whole time. I'm so proud of him.

I couldn't have been more pleased with the movie too. We had only just seen the original HTTYD through Netflix that week and I thought it just OK for a kid movie. But we all thought HTTYD 2 blew away the first one. The final battle was epic. But the best part of the film for me was the father of the main character (Hiccup) died. What?

He was killed in a battle with the main villain, and there was a grand viking funeral for him before the film's final battle. It was masterfully dramatically done, or at least that is my excuse for my wife and I both tearing up. My son didn't cry, and after the movie I asked him what I thought about the movie and specifically the death. My son expressed sadness at the loss of the chieftain, but also gladness that the community had a new chieftain (the main protagonist Hiccup), Hiccup now had his long-long mother back, and Hiccup's dragon was now the alpha dragon. My son seems to get the emotions and dramatic resolutions of the film. I've already got both HTTYD films on DVD, and a couple action figures with the main dragon to ride, to give him as Christmas gifts.

Whill wrote:
I'm thinking the order for my son will be 1, 4, 5, 2, 3, 6.

What does all this have to with this thread? This film signified a big step in my son's maturity, which bring us one step closer to my son seeing TPM, his first Star Wars film. Watching HTTYD 2 several times over the course of a few months will be the perfect preparation for Anakin's separation from his mother and the death of Qui-Gon. I may show it to him around Easter. Then hopefully he'll then be ready for ANH and it's roasted skeletal aunt and uncle around the Summer Solstice. Then I hope to show him TESB in August around the time he turns 6 (but before he starts Kindergarten in the elementary school where there's a greater chance of Luke-parentage spoilers).

As a Star Wars fan since I was about six when my dad took me to see Star Wars, and now a father of a son almost the same age who loves all forms of Star Wars he has access to, I'm really excited for my son to transition to the main film saga and sharing in his experiences. But for now, we'll keep watching Rebels. Santa is bringing him some Rebels action figures and maybe a Star Wars Lego set. Smile
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: HTTYD 2 - SPOILER ALERT Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
Then hopefully he can be ready for ANH and it's roasted skeletal aunt and uncle over the summer


Maybe action figures will help ease the transition...


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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrgh! And I though my collection was complete!
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this was a interesting thread to read...

I do have a recommendation. If you can find it check out Episode 4 Revisited. Think of it as a high quality Fan Special Edition of episode 4. According to the story I heard it was made by some ILM employees to fix what they liked about the ANH original release and the special edition.

Yes Han is back to shooting first!
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Zarm R'keeg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a guy named Adywan, actually- who's been working on his ESB version for a long time. There's a lot of great stuff in revisited- once you see Yavin in the guy over the Death Star battle, you'll never be able to stop wondering "Hey... yeah, why ISN'T that visible in any of the shots when they're orbiting it?" A death Star around Despayre, more animate alien faces, the death star actually starting to fire as it explodes... there's a lot to like. There are a few clunkers, too... messing with the interrogation droid needle, clunkily adding music into the Obi-wan/Vader and starfighter battles, etc.... but it's still my second-favorite version of the film, over the SE, DVD, or blu-ray editions.

Not perfect (some overdoing-it tampering here, just like in the SEs at times)... but a lot of great little touches that one kinda ends up wishing Lucas had done (like making the Falcon/TIE battle a mobile battle instead of the Falcon just sitting there, by the simple tweak of changing the starfields to move, which adds a lot of kinetic energy to the scene), rather than the things he did choose to focus on.

That's my take on it, anyway. I'm very much looking forward to his ESB treatment... someday.
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