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Missile countermeasures
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scott2978
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject: Missile countermeasures Reply with quote

Are there any RAW rules for common missile countermeasures like flares, chaff, etc?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's nothing official. I have this as part of a larger Advanced Starfighter Combat topic, however, it is in need of an update.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other than moving fast (which adds a +5 to +20 difficulty based on your space speed), no.
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scott2978
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So let me add something here.

In a game I ran last week, a Z95 pilot fired a concussion missile (using standard RAW) at a capital ship. The cap ship had 4D hull and 3D shields.

According to the scale rules, the concussion missile got a +6D bonus to hit the cap ship, and the cap ship got a +6D bonus to it's Hull roll to resist.

But the pilot used a Force point to double the damage dice.

Their damage roll was in the mid 60's, and even with bonus dice, the cap ship rolled a 38. The difference, being around 27, was plenty enough to make the cap ship go boom. So a 10m long fighter blew up a 500m long capital ship with one starfighter scale concussion missile. And the Pilot wasn't even Force Sensitive.

The table was silent, as a seemingly impossible event happened. The group thought I must be doing something wrong, because the exciting space battle they were expecting was instead extremely anticlimactic.

Did I do something wrong as the GM in this case?
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Savar
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scott2978 wrote:
So let me add something here.

In a game I ran last week, a Z95 pilot fired a concussion missile (using standard RAW) at a capital ship. The cap ship had 4D hull and 3D shields.

According to the scale rules, the concussion missile got a +6D bonus to hit the cap ship, and the cap ship got a +6D bonus to it's Hull roll to resist.

But the pilot used a Force point to double the damage dice.

Their damage roll was in the mid 60's, and even with bonus dice, the cap ship rolled a 38. The difference, being around 27, was plenty enough to make the cap ship go boom. So a 10m long fighter blew up a 500m long capital ship with one starfighter scale concussion missile. And the Pilot wasn't even Force Sensitive.

The table was silent, as a seemingly impossible event happened. The group thought I must be doing something wrong, because the exciting space battle they were expecting was instead extremely anticlimactic.

Did I do something wrong as the GM in this case?


The use of a force point is what messed the mechanic up. He could not use a force point for the damage dice.

Page 84
Second edition revised and expanded.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savar wrote:
Page 84
Second edition revised and expanded.
Quote:
A player may spend one Force Point in a round; all skills, attributes and special ability die codes are doubled for the rest of that round.

Anything that's not part of the character—weapon damage die codes, starship hull die codes and so forth — is not doubled.

scott, I'm kinda surprised that no one at the table caught that and pointed it out.

scott2978 wrote:
The table was silent, as a seemingly impossible event happened.

Well even with proper Force Point rules, it is not impossible with normal wild die explosion or a low hull roll. But it of course is extremely unlikely.

scott2978 wrote:
The group thought I must be doing something wrong, because the exciting space battle they were expecting was instead extremely anticlimactic.

Did I do something wrong as the GM in this case?

There are a few things you could have done. You could have just paused the game to double check the rules. A brief pause in the action is better than a whole table of disbelief and anticlimactic disappointment.

Here are a a couple other things from R&E p.69 to keep in mind...

Quote:
Never Let the Rules Get in the Way of a Good Story.
Quote:
Use Your Judgment. You have to use your judgment to decide what is and isn't possible in the game. You have to decide what's "reasonable" and "in the spirit of Star Wars"...
Quote:
Sometimes you'll also have to "fudge" the game results to strike the right balance and make the game challenging.

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Last edited by Whill on Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scott2978 wrote:
So let me add something here.

In a game I ran last week, a Z95 pilot fired a concussion missile (using standard RAW) at a capital ship. The cap ship had 4D hull and 3D shields.

According to the scale rules, the concussion missile got a +6D bonus to hit the cap ship, and the cap ship got a +6D bonus to it's Hull roll to resist.

But the pilot used a Force point to double the damage dice.

Did I do something wrong as the GM in this case?

YES> A force point doesnt double the damage of ANY attack that's not based on the user's strength (brawl/melee) or for jedi's their control.

Now, you could have allowed him to have tried a Highly difficult (IE +4d or so to the cap ship's dodge) shot, but if it hit, then he could have added say 2-3d worth on the damage, which would have been a good spot to pop the force point for..
Say he "found a weak spot under the shield, so the missile bypassed it."
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, FWIW, I allow force points for double damage... but it inflicts a Dark Side Point.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Force Points can be applied to damage indirectly by way of the Accuracy Damage Bonus Optional Rules from RoE. From a story-telling standpoint, this represents an exceptionally well-aimed / lucky / Force-guided shot hitting some vital component or weak spot.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrNexx wrote:
And, FWIW, I allow force points for double damage... but it inflicts a Dark Side Point.


I've seen that happen, more for wookies in berserker rages, who pop a force point and brawl someone to death..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
And, FWIW, I allow force points for double damage... but it inflicts a Dark Side Point.


I've seen that happen, more for wookies in berserker rages, who pop a force point and brawl someone to death..

That's fair; after all, when the character is the weapon, it makes sense that the Force Point would apply to their Strength, too. Say, any weapon that uses Strength + #D Damage?
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTB that's how it is.. Brawling attacks, or the Str component of Melee weapon damage, gets doubled...
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
BTB that's how it is.. Brawling attacks, or the Str component of Melee weapon damage, gets doubled...


Of course, with Melee Weapons, that can run into the weapon cap pretty quickly... a wookie should punch someone rather than use a knife, IIRC.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I prefer the Strength Damage rule from D6 3E, for keeping Strength damage from rapidly getting out of hand. Using that rule, on a Force Point, the character would just use their full Strength Dice for Damage instead of doubling. That way, the insanely high Strength rolls one would get with, say, an Esoomian with a Vibro-Axe would become the exception, not the norm.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:03 pm    Post subject: Strength Damage Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
That's why I prefer the Strength Damage rule from D6 3E, for keeping Strength damage from rapidly getting out of hand. Using that rule, on a Force Point, the character would just use their full Strength Dice for Damage instead of doubling. That way, the insanely high Strength rolls one would get with, say, an Esoomian with a Vibro-Axe would become the exception, not the norm.

Indeed. I've adapted a version of D6 Space's Strength Damage by adding more gradation to it to better realize the "half" concept without abrupt full die increases in the progression.
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