The Rancor Pit Forum Index
Welcome to The Rancor Pit forums!

The Rancor Pit Forum Index
FAQ   ::   Search   ::   Memberlist   ::   Usergroups   ::   Register   ::   Profile   ::   Log in to check your private messages   ::   Log in

ImpSB Sector Group Organization: How To Improve It
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters -> ImpSB Sector Group Organization: How To Improve It Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. For Artoo and Threepio, this would be more accurately ruled as Very Difficult or Heroic Terrain, with a Movement Failure resulting in getting shot.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Whill
Supreme Chancellor (Owner/Admin)


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 7701
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Fully acknowledging Whill's joke, I'll agree with Dredwulf. In an RPG system such as D6, there is no risk of hitting what you are not aiming at.

I've mentioned this before, but, if we use footage from the films to justify rules for a skill that is not in use, then we would have to also come up with rules for where a missed shot would impact, potentially hitting younglings on the other side of a wall or innocents in the cantina, etc.


True, true. I just love that scene. A vivid memory of seeing the original Star War in the theater was how from the very start of the film, there was total silence from the audience as our jaws were just hanging open. Artoo and Threepio waking through the firefight broke the silence as the audience suddenly erupted into laughter as if that were the funniest thing we all had ever seen. And then immediately after that scene, the laughter immediately stopped as Vader walked into the scene, and then I became oblivious of the theater until the audience all stood up in the theater to join the Rebels in applauding the Heroes of Yavin at the end of the film.

But this scene does beg the question, should there be rules for where missed shots land? For this scenario, there might be something to base it on in the cover/protection rules. Artoo and Threepio could be thought of as temporarily providing cover for the rebels and the stormtroopers shooting at each other. If the GM rolled high enough to beat the difficulty to hit but not enough to beat the cover, then the cover is hit instead of the target.

Of course I'm not one of those GM that feel every single aspect of the films needs translated into game mechanics because you only need enough rules to simulate new characters living in the same universe as the films, not simulate the films themselves with the game. I don't think games necessarily need to have a scene like this just take place in the same universe as this.

However the gif isn't just a joke. I have had scenarios where the PCs have had to run through the middle of a firefight to get where they are going. Since the PCs weren't active participants in the firefight itself (they were a third part), I didn't bother rolling for either side in the firefight. I just made a difficulty and had the players roll a Dodge roll to not get hit by stray blaster bolts as the run through the firefight. When they all made it through without getting hit, then they had a fun round somewhat like this scene in the film.

Another way to handle it might be to think of the firefight as a terrain of a certain difficulty and have the players make movement rolls, failure meaning they don't necessarily get hit by a shot but wipe out to the ground, and have to spend another round to get out of the firefight.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration & Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3030

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think both of those examples are representative of things a competent and reasonable GM would come up with on the fly, rather than trying to formulate the likelihood of being shot by a failed attack roll.

As to a rule, like I mentioned in another thread, if you wanted to house rule this, it would need to include a risk to allies who attempt to "surround" an enemy (which is a major tactical failure in the first place). In reality, the consequences of discharging a firearm in an uncontrolled environment are potentially dire. EVERYTHING that is in the same general direction of the target is at risk until the shot hits something it cannot penetrate or until it runs out of steam (which is potentially hundreds of meters down range).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dredwulf60
Line Captain
Line Captain


Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 860

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I think both of those examples are representative of things a competent and reasonable GM would come up with on the fly, rather than trying to formulate the likelihood of being shot by a failed attack roll.

As to a rule, like I mentioned in another thread, if you wanted to house rule this, it would need to include a risk to allies who attempt to "surround" an enemy (which is a major tactical failure in the first place). In reality, the consequences of discharging a firearm in an uncontrolled environment are potentially dire. EVERYTHING that is in the same general direction of the target is at risk until the shot hits something it cannot penetrate or until it runs out of steam (which is potentially hundreds of meters down range).


I usually use this as fodder for wild '1's.

Some of my players like getting in with the melee and brawling, and sometimes another will want to fire a blaster to help out if things are not going well.

"Can I shoot and not hit my ally?" they'll ask.
And I will usually reply, "Sure...as long as you don't roll a Wild '1'.

It's only a 1 in 6 chance....but it's always enough to give them pause to consider the situation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an attempt to bring this back on topic, here are the relevant quotes on the organization of Special Missions units...
Quote:
Special Missions Platoons have the standard 38 men, but that is the only thing standard about them. They have four squads: two sharpshooter squads, a heavy weapons squad, and a squad of engineers. These squads cross-attach, often breaking up into about three more equal groups, each containing engineers and/or a heavy weapons detail.
Quote:
Special Missions Companies consist of three special missions platoons and an augmented scout platoon, plus the command and support element — 136 troopers out of a total of 164 men. If the mission is to be of short duration the support element is omitted. An augmented scout platoon is actually smaller than a normal scout platoon, having 22 men. However all of them are speeder bike scouts, having four lances, a lieutenant and a sergeant major. The 22 scout bikes are often modified to carry additional spare parts and munitions as special missions companies often operate in "zones of increased hostility density." They are involved in far more combat than a scout platoon is designed to be; special missions scouts greatly enjoy the increased action.
Quote:
Special Missions Battalions are the largest special missions units recognized in the OB of the Imperial Army. They consist of four special missions companies and an HQ element, a total of 544 troops out of 746 men, and a total of 88 speeder bikes, more than in many Army corps!

Special missions HQ is an exception to the rule — they are expected to be directly involved with the combat operation. In place of the standard support personnel are engineers who double as support when things calm down; the security platoon is made of the absolutely finest troopers the Army can find, and the major and his staff are hardened combat veterans.

A special missions HQ is used to action. This approach leads to high morale among troopers, knowing that they are not being asked to do something which the major isn't actually doing himself. It also leads to ample opportunity for promotion into the HQ unit as attrition wears the HQ down.

You can mock the actual accuracy of stormtroopers all you want; my point was more that, while the ImpSB attempted to paint stormtroopers as operating without any sort of supply and support services at all, the organization of Special Missions units actually does it in a way that makes sense, by having support personnel be combat trained and able to fight alongside the troops they are supporting if needs be.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3030

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so, you're considering organizing stormtrooper units the same as/similar to the SMUs?

Am I getting your intent right: stormtroopers will serve as hi op-tempo troops on the offensive while regular army solidifies the hold on ground claimed by the stormies (who then move on to the next AO)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're reading too much into it. I see Stormtroopers as more like a combination of the Airborne and the Marine Corps: rapid-reaction troops that are either already forward deployed (aboard naval vessels) or easily can be (aboard high-speed transports). They wouldn't replace full-up Imperial Army Armored and Mobile Units, but would instead be used to "kick in the door" - seizing high value targets like spaceports and anti-orbital defenses to clear the way for the heavy transports bringing in the heavy units.

However, the ImpSB made a patently silly claim that Stormtroopers deploy without any visible method of support and logistics, not even medics or technicians, while also not reducing the numerical strength of the unit to fit the absence of support personnel. My point is that Special Missions has a much more realistic method of "going without support troops" by having the command and support elements also be combat troops. Structuring Stormtrooper units in this fashion gives them their own integral heavy weapons and scouting support while simultaneously making them modular enough that they can be parcelled out and paired up with armored vehicles (AT-ATs) or assault shuttles and become instant combined arms or air assault units, in addition to being able to perform as light infantry if needed.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral


Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2538
Location: Pullman, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes sense to me, when you put it like that.
_________________
RR
________________________________________________________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3030

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
I think you're reading too much into it. I see Stormtroopers as more like a combination of the Airborne and the Marine Corps: rapid-reaction troops that are either already forward deployed (aboard naval vessels) or easily can be (aboard high-speed transports). They wouldn't replace full-up Imperial Army Armored and Mobile Units, but would instead be used to "kick in the door" - seizing high value targets like spaceports and anti-orbital defenses to clear the way for the heavy transports bringing in the heavy units.

However, the ImpSB made a patently silly claim that Stormtroopers deploy without any visible method of support and logistics, not even medics or technicians, while also not reducing the numerical strength of the unit to fit the absence of support personnel. My point is that Special Missions has a much more realistic method of "going without support troops" by having the command and support elements also be combat troops. Structuring Stormtrooper units in this fashion gives them their own integral heavy weapons and scouting support while simultaneously making them modular enough that they can be parcelled out and paired up with armored vehicles (AT-ATs) or assault shuttles and become instant combined arms or air assault units, in addition to being able to perform as light infantry if needed.


So you'll have HQ stormies as part of a line unit. Like, storm trooper medics, and such?

The way my unit did it (being MPs, its a bit different: a company is functionally like a mini infantry battalion), each platoon had a medic, a commo guy, a mechanic, etc. Of course, we all deployed as a unit, but on some missions, the medic or commo guy would come along if needed. Administratively, the support personnel belonged to HQ platoon, but each was "responsible for" a specific platoon. They were available as needed/requested.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bren
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral


Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
However, the ImpSB made a patently silly claim that Stormtroopers deploy without any visible method of support and logistics, not even medics or technicians, while also not reducing the numerical strength of the unit to fit the absence of support personnel.
Patently silly is right. I just ignore that and assume that stormtroopers, as the Emperor's elite, have first call on support and logistics etc and that their support comes from either the Navy via the ships the stormies are deployed on, the base personnel for the bases the stormies guard, or the regular army when both army and stormies are deployed together in the field.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
So you'll have HQ stormies as part of a line unit. Like, storm trooper medics, and such?

Correct. It won't be an exact copy of Special Missions, but will be the same in how it provides support. For example, the line platoons won't have an Engineering Squad; instead, the Tech Support units at the Company and Battalion levels will double as combat engineers. Supply would be pretty much unchanged; I expect most of its support droids consist of repulsor- or walker-type "mule" droids, with the organic personnel providing the command functions.

I also picture Stormtrooper officers only being able to come up through the ranks, sort of like in the Starship Troopers novel (and I hate that I have to distinguish between Heinlein's novel and Verhoeven's steaming pile of cinematic crap, but I digress), where officer candidates had to have seen actual combat before they could even apply to OCS.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bren wrote:
I just ignore that and assume that stormtroopers, as the Emperor's elite, have first call on support and logistics etc and that their support comes from either the Navy via the ships the stormies are deployed on, the base personnel for the bases the stormies guard, or the regular army when both army and stormies are deployed together in the field.

That works up to a certain point, but when it comes to large, or even medium, sized groups in the field, they need to have their own integrated support personnel, who have trained with and operated together. The importance of coordinating the entire unit in combat can't be overstated, and trying to make a scratch group of combat troops and support personnel (from a completely different branch) is far from ideal.

So yes, I agree that stormtrooper units draw supplies and support externally from whatever unit they are attached to, but must also have internal support to function effectively in combat, especially as unit size increases.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Mamatried
Commodore
Commodore


Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1348
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This si an interseting topic.

I have been working on a rewamp of the Imperial Navy System Forces.
Including squadrong and Lines, even Elements

What I did was first create a squad size high commad that included the system commander from either navy or army, and then the commanders of each of the system force branches, as well as intelligence.

Then I add a command staff to include more junior and specializt officers, like intel, medical and enginnering etc.

I then start with Logistics, by far the the most important of the branches.
I make a GM estimate on how big the system is,and what would be a "standard strength" system force.

I now look at what other sperate branches I need, and I take the navy first.

I need logistics
I need technical services
I need Bioligical/Chemical (mainly for medical personnel)
I need Ship Crew this includes ship security but not stormtroopers or auxillary pilots.
I then need Auxilary Starships, Fighters, shuttle, and service craft, various small craft.


I would then look at what ships is used mostly by each of the above, naturally crew goes with "any" ship.

I now look at lines.

I would seperate them not in heavy attack and attack lines but combine the two into attack lines.

To give the system force a broad operational capacity I make the main changes on line level, and I do this before I begin look to squadrons.

Destroyer Line: This is often the heart of the squadron, and usually holds the squadron command ship.

Strength: 1-3 ISD
Normal Configuration: 3 ISD
Alternate Configuration: 1 ISD and 2 Carrier (Converted ISD)

As an example.

I then add what makes sense.

I then go to Look at small craft, scouts and fighters as well as shuttles.
Landers however I count under army.

I then add the number of TIE series wings needed to fill the ships and support the army.

I then add marines as the ships stormtrooper compliments.

I give the army use of logicistics branch transports, army does not include stormtroopers. But does include vehicles and landing craft.

I finally add up legions of stormtroopers, with a norm of 1 legion pr squadron, in addition to the ship marines.
These use transports from logistics and the "passenger" slots of other ships, hitching rides with the naval assets.

and so on and so eventually building a force, bei as large as sector force, system force, a smaller flotilla or task force, or even just a small squadron of fighters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Director of Engineering


Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 14042
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a place for that sort of thing, but this is more geared toward providing a guidelines for GMs to gen up opposition for their players. I've often wondered what all of that stuff would look like in the SWU, as well, but for gaming purposes, you don't need much beyond company-level for ground forces and some mixed naval lines.

However, if you're looking for some excellent material on what the Imperial Army might look like, I recommend the FM-100-2 series on the organization and equipment of the Soviet Red Army.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Rancor Pit Forum Index -> Gamemasters All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Page 10 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group


v2.0