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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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 Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well, you could go a different route...
The SR-71, until it actually gets to 'missile-outrunning' speeds, leaked like a sieve. Once you get up to speed, however, everything seals up tight, and she's on her way to 'first star on the right, straight on 'til morning.' If you're not going to cut the speed or sensors, then give it some kind of other flaw that helps even it out. As yet I have no suggestion, but it's a possible avenue of investigation that might lead to a compromise... |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, it only leaked like a sieve sitting on the ground, and that was intentional, as the stresses of flight (temperature and such) sealed everything tight once the ship was in the air for a few minutes.
I haven't ruled out cutting the speed yet, especially in light of Ankhanu's suggestion from above. I like the idea of the ship having to slow down to a more normal speed to get an unobstructed sensor reading, and introducing a moment of vulnerability in which the ship could potentially be intercepted. On the other hand, most of garhkal's arguments against a high speed end up sounding like "you can't make it that fast because its unfair to the pilots who have to chase it," which is... I'll just leave that one alone. I don't want this ship to be "just barely" faster than A-Wings and TIE Interceptors; the SR-71 was capable of at least Mach 3.5 at a time with the fastest plane the Soviets had to try and intercept it topped out at Mach 2.5. Comparing the two ratios (with the A-Wing's 12 being the equivalent of Mach 2.5), this ship would have to have a minimum of 17 to be equal to the SR-71's bare minimum (presuming the SR-71's official top speed is its actual top speed, which is highly unlikely).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Jedi Skyler
Moff
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 8440
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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I also like Ankhanu's suggestion; blowing through an area at top speed really should hinder your ability to get a truly comprehensive scan of said area.
While I may not have a truly complete understanding of garkhal's position, I don't truly believe it's solely from an "It's not fair to the pilots who have to try to chase it" perspective; everything I've seen from him is about game balance, and this is a ship that will basically pwn just about anything it comes up against, speed-wise...not to mention that incredible sensor suite. In order to balance that out, this will DEFINITELY have to be an extremely rare, and extremely rarely-used vessel. I believe you're at least on the right track there with the capsule you presented.
Of course, to balance it completely, not to mention being an evil GM, you could always give the Imps a comparable ship, and have it used every time the Rebels bring theirs out...the whole campaign could then be each side trying to locate and destroy the others' super spy ship...hehehe  |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14033
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
I haven't ruled out cutting the speed yet, especially in light of Ankhanu's suggestion from above. I like the idea of the ship having to slow down to a more normal speed to get an unobstructed sensor reading, and introducing a moment of vulnerability in which the ship could potentially be intercepted. On the other hand, most of garhkal's arguments against a high speed end up sounding like "you can't make it that fast because its unfair to the pilots who have to chase it," which is... I'll just leave that one alone. I don't want this ship to be "just barely" faster than A-Wings and TIE Interceptors; |
Ask yourself this question C. Are you ok with letting PCs own and use this ship? Are you ok with them being able to out run any space combat, to the point they literally could all out into a system, spend 2 rounds slowing down to cruise speed to do one round of scans, then speed back out, not really even giving any enemy a chance to response?
What of capital ships? Just using a base ISD from the main rule book. Its FARTHEST it can reach out to is 75 SU. With this ship having a speed of 20, it can all out to 80. That means it can be outside of range, in R1 (80 away), be right on TOP of the cap ship, in r2, slowing down to full speed (40), scan it in R3, then be right back out of range in R4 after shifting up to flank again..
Plus even with the Knock down of range to where scan is only 75, and 90 for search, that means it can easily scan any capital ship and be outside of any chance of that capital ship ever returning fire..
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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What if you give the ship additional modifiers at high and all out speed instead of giving it a super high base speed (cruising).
Maybe instead it gets 3x base speed in "high" and 5x in "all out?"
But to hit those high speeds the pilots need to transfer all power to the engines, which severely limits the juice the sensors can get.
So if you give it a space equal to the droid ship (15) at high speed it'll be a little faster than it is now: 45, but it tops out at 75 instead of 80 when in all out.
I for one, don't particularly mind a ship like this, because the lack of weaponry and maneuverability (in the possible updated stats) still make it a hazard to be in. Not to mention, if this thing gets caught in a tractor beam, it's screwed.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Who said anything about letting PCs own this ship? Per the capsule, there are only 12 D-Wings in existence, all of them are assigned directly to Alliance High Command for special missions only, and all of them have to be accompanied by a light freighter filled with technicians and spare parts to stay operational. No PC would have the kind of resources needed to keep a ship like this running for longer than a week.
And on the off chance PCs did end up getting to use this thing, I'm sure I could find something to surprise them with (laser mines, dead-drop missiles, etc.) All it would take is a little imagination.
And if you think this version is unbalanced, check out the original version by Wing Commander Luna...Craft: Shadow Works SR-71 D-Wing
Type: Long-Range Reconnaissance Starfighter
Scale: Starfighter
Period: Empire
Length: 32.7 m
Skill: Starfighter Piloting: D-Wing
Crew: 2+Droid (Skeleton Crew: 1/+10)
Crew Skill:
-Astrogation 5D+1
-Starfighter Piloting 7D,
-Starship Gunnery 5D+2
-Starship Shields 4D+1
Passengers: Non
Cargo Capacity: 200 kg
Consumables: 3 Weeks
Cost: Not available for sale
Hyperdrive Multiplier: X1
Hyperdrive Backup: X8
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverability: 0D
Space: 20
Atmosphere: 900;2200 kmh
Hull: 4D+2
Shields: 2D
Sensors:
-Passive: 80 / 1D
-Scan: 90 / 2D
-Search: 135 / 3D
-Focus: 8 / 4D
Weapons:
-2 Heavy Ion Cannons (Fire-Linked)
--Fire Arc: Front
--Skill: Starship Gunnery
--Fire Control: 3D
--Space/Atmosphere Range: 1-3/7/36, 0.1-0.3/0.7/3.6 km
--Damage: 5D (Starfighter)
-1 Concussion Missile Launcher (10 Missiles)
--Fire Arc: Rear
--Crew: 1
--Skill: Starship Gunnery
--Fire Control: 4D
--Space/Atmosphere Range: 1-2/8/15, 0.1-0.2/0.8/1.5 km
--Damage: 7D (Starfighter)
-1 Enemy Targeting Jammer
--Fire Arc: All
--Skill: Sensors: Works against all starfighters within range
--Fire Control: 0D
--Space Range: 1-3/7/15
--Damage: -3D Fire Control
{Payload; Max: 40D, 3/4: 30D, 1/2: 20D)
4 Internal Weapon Bays (5D)
1 Centreline Pylon (20D)} = This is based on the Wing Pylon System posted over at RPGGamer, which was also designed by Wing Commander Luna.
Capsule: The SR-71 D-Wing was designed by the Alliance's
Shadow Work design team to be capable of penetrating heavily
defended targets, conduct a recon or a limited strike, and
still be able to get away intact.
In order to achieve the mission profile, Shadow Works had to
emphasize speed at the expense of other performance aspects
such as maneuverability and stealth. The final result was a
vessel capable of cruising at speeds that normal
starfighters could only dream about.
However, since they are very difficult and expensive to
build and requires a tremendous amount of maintenance, they
are normally not issued to local sector commands, instead,
are they used as a strategic reconnaissance resource by the
Alliance High Command.
The D-Wing (Delta Wing) is also known by the nickname
"Blackbird" due to its color.
Game Notes: Sensor operators searching for an Shadow Works
"Blackbird" gains a +10 bonus to their Sensors rolls as long
as the "Blackbird " is underway using its sublight drive.
This is due to the tremendous power output.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | I for one, don't particularly mind a ship like this, because the lack of weaponry and maneuverability (in the possible updated stats) still make it a hazard to be in. Not to mention, if this thing gets caught in a tractor beam, it's screwed. |
Just made the previously suggested changes (except the speed), plus a modified version of how the drive signature disrupts the sensors.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Jedi Skyler wrote: | | Of course, to balance it completely, not to mention being an evil GM, you could always give the Imps a comparable ship, and have it used every time the Rebels bring theirs out...the whole campaign could then be each side trying to locate and destroy the others' super spy ship...hehehe |
I like it. I'm thinking in the direction of some sort of super-TIE, like the Defender, that, while not as fast as the D-Wing, has enough speed to keep it in range for a few rounds, long enough to get in some energy shots or pop off a few homing missiles...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if the self destruct system would be able to be activated if the ship suffered enough damage from ion cannons.
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RR
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14033
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Does it even have a self destruct? Heck does any ship have one?
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | I wonder if the self destruct system would be able to be activated if the ship suffered enough damage from ion cannons. |
I always figured that any ship equipped with a self destruct will have some sort of manual trigger that either can't be ionized or is hardened against ionization.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Does it even have a self destruct? Heck does any ship have one? |
Yes, it does; second entry in Weapons. As far as official ships, the Recon X-Wing in the Black Fleet Crisis is equipped with a self destruct. My previous stealth ship, the R-Wing, had one, too.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14033
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Does it even have a self destruct? Heck does any ship have one? |
Yes, it does; second entry in Weapons. As far as official ships, the Recon X-Wing in the Black Fleet Crisis is equipped with a self destruct. My previous stealth ship, the R-Wing, had one, too. |
I would have it listed as a flat D damage value, rather than "it completely destroys' as this gives a chance somethign went wrong in the wiring of the charges.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16176
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Good point. I think I used an actual D number for the R-Wing, but I was in something of a rush when I posted the original stat...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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