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Using Technical skills for Sabotage
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savar wrote:
cynanbloodbane wrote:
Savar wrote:
Programming a worm virus or such. Would mess a lot of Systems up.

Also programming a droid to do sabotage.

game mechanics for sabotage.
Make a technical skill check with mods. That is the opposed roll to repair the sabotage. With mods based on how hidden the sabotage is to be.


So, what would have been the difficulty on disabling the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon in ESB. It was well hidden but simple, as R2 was able to correct it in a matter of seconds. Lets look at an in film example and build from there. I'm sure there were a few other good examples in the pod race in TPM.


Well i would say R2 had a much better skill then the slicer who did the sabotage.

Software corruption can be fixed fast with the right skills. Hardware takes the right parts.

You could take a dice penalty to you're technical skill check for the sabotage and the dice penalty you take is the dice you roll to hide the sabotage?

R2 was only able to fix it quickly because he stumbled on the nature of the sabotage, "the city's central computer told him".
I really think we are being too broad on the definition of sabotage. Any action that disabled an existing functional system made possible with nothing more than the tools used to maintain said system. While this would not preclude catastrophic failure if the system were in use at the time of the sabotage, a planned systems failure should be a very random event. To truly be able to time a system failure an additional skill would need to be used in conjunction with the repair/sabotage skill, computer programming, demolition or even a different repair/sabotage skill use on a connecting or supporting system.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmanski wrote:
I think you need to develop a case by case basis for each method of sabotage you intend to flesh out. I think "opposite repair" or something (as in the case of the Falcon's hyperdrive) is one. Then there's the old "cut the break lines" thing where a component fails; there would need to be varying degrees of failure, though, from light to catastrophic, IMHO.

I think Gark's on to something. I think the character rolls the repair skill to affect the sabotage, and then rolls hide to see how detectable it is; a poor hide roll could be caught without effort.


So then perhaps we need to figure out base diff #s for different types of sabotage.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So then perhaps we need to figure out base diff #s for different types of sabotage.

The base difficulty would likely be equal to the base difficulty to repair damage. For instance, if you are looking to sabotage all of the weapons in a specific fire arc, use the same difficulty as it would take to repair that damage, and probably the same Time Taken...
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what would beating that 'base diff' do? Act as a 'damage # the weapons now need to soak?
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Kytross
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more complicated the sabotage, the higher the difficulty. And there are ddifferent ways to make it more complicated, but let's take a real life example: A car.

Very easy - Cutting the gas line. Quick, simple, effective, but the puddle of gas flowing out from under the car lets everyone know it don't work.

Easy - Sugar in the gas tank. Slow working, effective, and hard to detect. Mildly more time consuming.

Moderate - removing the battery. Time consuming and more complicated to do, but instant disable

etc, gotta go!
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the more novelty ways i have seen was putting a pair of tampons in a gas tank.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This wont provide a complete solution, but what about using the modification/upgrade rules to degrade systems by 1-5 pips. Unlike with repair though, you can take away the full 1D+2 with a single modification (to upgrade, it has to be done in steps).

As for causing a part to mysteriously fail at some point in the future might require a repair roll equal to the difficulty to fix that kind of problem.

Unfortuneately, the rules dont account for failures resulting from poor maintenance, so the repair skills are basically just there to reverse the effects of battle damage.

On the other hand, since damage to vehicles results in penalties to vehicle die codes, maybe its not so far fetched to simulte sabotage by treating it like a damage roll.... but maybe the difficuty could be based on the technical complexity of the system, rather than the hull strength.

For example, sabotaging the nav-computer would be harder than sabotaging the landing gear.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know that we need detailed game mechanics for this stuff. I always viewed the buzz droids as doing targeted damage (but yes the appropriate starship repair skill must be used to determine how and where to hit it).

As discussed, there's the kind of sabotage that is instant, and then there is the kind that is concealed and delayed with the intention of it being noticed after it goes into effect or when it is otherwise too late to prevent. Sabotaging a nav computer may be more difficult to succeed putting into effect, but sabotaging a landing gear for a delayed effect may be more difficult to hide.

The way I've handled it is case by case. Normally the applicable Technical skill is used, and the difficulty considers the specific action, the intended outcome and the difficulty to conceal if required.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
garhkal wrote:
So then perhaps we need to figure out base diff #s for different types of sabotage.

The base difficulty would likely be equal to the base difficulty to repair damage. For instance, if you are looking to sabotage all of the weapons in a specific fire arc, use the same difficulty as it would take to repair that damage, and probably the same Time Taken...


Funny, my players wanted to shut down all the weapons on one side of an Imperial ship so they could make their escape. Rather than deal with some heroic repair roles to sabotage each of the weapons systems they decided to reverse the weapons tracking. Figuring they would be out of range before the gun crews were able to compensate for the change. Seeing it first hand, I am convinced the Repair skills and security skill are perfect for dealing with sabotage. Adding a Security skill check adds a MAP, but also allows the Sabotage to not ping some Imp's console before it can have an effect.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds good, but there is an additional element, in that actually getting to the proper place to perform the sabotage will require a little storytelling and other skill rolls, like Sneak or Con. If anything, the more damaging it is, the harder it should be to get to; you shouldn't just be able to pull it up on the personal entertainment console in the crew lounge.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, but nobody pays much attention to droids... at least until they start doing something they are not supposed to.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A fair point, but not everybody plays droids. And if they did, I'd still require a little roleplaying to get them where they need to be.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crmcneill wrote:
Sounds good, but there is an additional element, in that actually getting to the proper place to perform the sabotage will require a little storytelling and other skill rolls, like Sneak or Con. If anything, the more damaging it is, the harder it should be to get to; you shouldn't just be able to pull it up on the personal entertainment console in the crew lounge.


Agreed. Such as regular 'orders of the day', and things like the military's plan of the weeks, should be able to get accessed from most anywhere, but things such as code phrases of the day, security routines/watch schedules and such would require specific locations to get to.
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cynanbloodbane
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
crmcneill wrote:
Sounds good, but there is an additional element, in that actually getting to the proper place to perform the sabotage will require a little storytelling and other skill rolls, like Sneak or Con. If anything, the more damaging it is, the harder it should be to get to; you shouldn't just be able to pull it up on the personal entertainment console in the crew lounge.


Agreed. Such as regular 'orders of the day', and things like the military's plan of the weeks, should be able to get accessed from most anywhere, but things such as code phrases of the day, security routines/watch schedules and such would require specific locations to get to.


Don't forget to give a +10 bonus to a PC that thinks to carry a clipboard. Nobody questions someone with a clipboard, it could reflect badly on the review...
Seriously Con is the most likely skill for me to force the players to role play out completely before I let them roll dice. The quality of the players story will impact the difficulty or resistance roll. If the players are engaged and fully playing to the cinematic feel of the Star Wars universe, they will most likely get an easy roll.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to give a laugh at that "Clipboard" suggestion..
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