| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 10:49 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| garhkal wrote: | | They should. Similar to how in most other game systems there's a penalty to hit someone at medium/long range, so conversely there should be a bonus to dodge long/medium range shots, but possibly a penalty for close in ones. |
But the precognitive aspect of Force sensitivity throws all that out the window. The Force wouldn't give less of a warning just because the shooter happened to be at Point Blank Range; in fact, it might actually give more, if the closer shooter is the more dangerous threat.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14034
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
If i get a warning of something say 2 seconds out. THE Closer it is to me, the less i am able to do against it. BUT if its far enough away, the more i can react to it.
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | If i get a warning of something say 2 seconds out. THE Closer it is to me, the less i am able to do against it. BUT if its far enough away, the more i can react to it. |
But you're presuming a flat warning time when there is no evidence to suggest that the Force has such a time limit. All we know from the game rules is that powers like Danger Sense warn the Jedi that an attack is coming in advance, giving them time to react.
And really, the difference in flight time relative to distance for bullets and blaster bolts will be negligible compared to human reaction times. A pistol bullet traveling at 700 fps is over three times slower than a rifle bullet traveling at 2400 fps, but that doesn't make much of a difference when it comes to how humans perceive it.
I don't think it's necessary to game rule this; shooters already have the advantage of reduced Difficulty as the range closes. There is no need to machine in a rule to represent the reaction times of normal senses when dealing with a character whose combat senses aren't based on what they can see.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've always imagined the early warning as being more or less split second and/or a "feeling" about what to do when, rather than something like "shooter number three is about to fire a shot toward your midsection in 1.45334456544 seconds and shooter number one is about to fire at your head in 2.22234455643 seconds."
I've imagined it's more like the force says, "duck!" or "guard your face," etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naaman wrote: | | I've imagined it's more like the force says, "duck!" or "guard your face," etc. |
Seconded. IMO, one of the best narratives for this is the novel for Revenge of the Sith, where Jedi don't know exactly how the moves they make will result, save that they feel the Force guiding them toward a certain goal. There is no sense of timing, but more of a "do this no, followed by this" and so on and so forth.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darklighter79
Captain
Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 529
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naaman wrote: | | By limiting a reaction skill to only doing what the skill name seems to describe (such as "parry"), we destroy the swshbuckling/space opera/high adventure of it. For example, if a player says, "I block with my lightsaber!" And GM says, "you don't have a blocking skill. You can only parry... and since [insert awkward situation here], a parry is slower than a block, so you take a penalty." Seems kinda lame (to me). |
Well, one can always use an attribute if there's no skill.
Anyway, RAW seems to be inconsistent here: brawling parry vs the rest of defensive skills description.
| Naaman wrote: | | (Interesting point: I just looked up "parry." It means "to ward off or evade." Take that for what it's worth). |
That is why other D6s tried to sort it out:
1) Melee Combat & brawling skills used for hitting and parry
2) Dodge used for avoid being hit (both ranged and melee*)
* Used if a character has nothing in hand to block an attack as unarmed block/attack against melee weapons causes damage.
_________________
Don’t Let the Rules Get in the Way of a Good Story. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I still don't see the problem. They could have named the skill "Dexterity-based skill #4" and said in the description: this skill lets you avoid being hit by attacks when you are wielding a lightsaber.
The skill covers all aspects of defense when fighting with a lightsaber, regardless of what it is called (yes, I know: you still need the power up).
Conversely, melee parry (or, "dexterity based skill #9") doesn't work against ranged attacks because the skill description doesn't allow it to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darklighter79
Captain
Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 529
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naaman wrote: |
Conversely, melee parry (or, "dexterity based skill #9") doesn't work against ranged attacks because the skill description doesn't allow it to. |
For dodge it should not, but to parry ranged attack?
_________________
Don’t Let the Rules Get in the Way of a Good Story. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, I never saw that movie, so I don't know who that character is. There are a few ways to handle this, RAW:
If the character is force sensitive, he has a force power like lightsaber combat that allows him to parry blasters.
Next, use the dodge skill. That is the "avoid getting hit (for damage)" by ranged attacks. Doesn't matter how its described: even if not force sensitive, the Jedi (unlike this guy) get to ADD their sense roll to their defensive skill (to represent precognition, so it's still "balanced").
Lastly, he's just choosing to "tank" the shots, using his weapon like a shield/barrier, rather than deftly swatting blaster bolts off target. So, the GM might have said, " okay, you want to use your weapon as a barrier: the shooter rolls against base difficulty of 10 and you get an extra 1D of resistence on top of whatever your armor provides. Also, if your wild die comes up as a 1, your weapon takes full damage and may be destroyed." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Darklighter79 wrote: | | Naaman wrote: |
Conversely, melee parry (or, "dexterity based skill #9") doesn't work against ranged attacks because the skill description doesn't allow it to. |
For dodge it should not, but to parry ranged attack? |
If you look closely, Enys Nest deployed fan-like forearm shields (made of beskar, per the Neo-EU) to parry the blaster bolts. This would be more in line with using a shield as Cover than actually parrying; her arms don't move much while she is charging.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darklighter79
Captain
Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 529
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: |
If you look closely, Enys Nest deployed fan-like forearm shields (made of beskar, per the Neo-EU) to parry the blaster bolts. This would be more in line with using a shield as Cover than actually parrying; her arms don't move much while she is charging. |
I thought about that but the problem is it adds cover bonus to base range difficulty, not to dodge skill. Beckett was far too skilled not to beat it. It was not even 1/2 cover.
Anyway, Solo and Corporate Sector sourcebook has rules for this: riot shield. Skill: melee parry. If rolled successfully, user blocks attacks from one arc.
_________________
Don’t Let the Rules Get in the Way of a Good Story. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And yet Beckett seemed to mostly be firing center-of-mass shots that were blocked by the shields. If he was far too good to do this, why did he? It wasn't like Enfys Nest was putting up any real effort to move the shields around.
Either way, blocking blaster shots with something as thin as a lightsaber is going to be several orders of magnitude more difficult that doing so with even a small physical shields.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darklighter79
Captain
Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 529
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | And yet Beckett seemed to mostly be firing center-of-mass shots that were blocked by the shields. If he was far too good to do this, why did he? It wasn't like Enfys Nest was putting up any real effort to move the shields around.
|
Visually it does not have to be spectacular. Skill represents taking the most optimal defensive stance against incoming attack based on range, weapon, surroundings ect, not waving around.
Anyway, mechanically does it fit more for:
1) He failed his blaster roll vs very easy +1D test
2) He failed his blaster roll vs melee parry
?
| Quote: | | Either way, blocking blaster shots with something as thin as a lightsaber is going to be several orders of magnitude more difficult that doing so with even a small physical shields. |
With something as thin - very very, very difficult (RAW)*. But those shields were not so small.
*Exception
_________________
Don’t Let the Rules Get in the Way of a Good Story. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16178
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Darklighter79 wrote: | | Visually it does not have to be spectacular. Skill represents taking the most optimal defensive stance against incoming attack based on range, weapon, surroundings ect, not waving around. |
But this topic is about parrying blaster bolts with a lightsaber, not blocking them with a shield. Enfys Nest hardly moves her arms at all while she's charging, so all she's doing is hiding behind her shields. I'd go with the Cover and Protection rules, treating the shields as 1/4 Cover, which Beckett then has to try to shoot around to get to her.
| Quote: | | With something as thin - very very, very difficult (RAW)*. But those shields were not so small. |
That's my point; you're going off on a tangent. The entire topic up to this point has been about how FS characters parry blaster bolts with their lightsabers. Non FS characters using shields as Cover requires a different sort of rule.
The cartoons are notorious for going off the rails when it comes to canon authenticity, and those stupid Mandalorian guards parrying blaster bolts with their staffs are one of the worst offenders. If I were forced at gunpoint to include that sort of stupidity in my own campaign, I'd rule that they are minor Force users (possibly with just Control & Sense) with a Staff Combat variant of Lightsaber Combat that allows them to parry blaster bolts.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3191
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In my opinion, the difficulty of parrying or dodging or whatever should be based on the likelihood that the common blaster pistol will incapacitate a typical heroic target with a single shot.
If getting hit once is more likely to take you out of the fight completely, then the parrying needs to be easier. If, like in D&D, it takes many hits to incapacitate, the hits should be more frequent.
As a general guide (based on what I've seen), parrying a blaster shot from a stormie should average "easy" (6-10), while a shooter like a royal guard might be "difficult" (15-20).
And the likes of Jango Fett might be "very difficult" or even heroic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
