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New Starship Damage Chart
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: I changed the Shields Blown result under Lightly Damaged to reflect the RAW's Particle Shields rule, adding in the possibility of damaging or disabling them.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
These are both editing errors. I cut-and-pasted the updates into the text of the original post, but didn't get a chance to proof it before I left for work. Editing now.


Rgr that..

CRMcNeill wrote:
But no, catastrophic damage is not a new health level; the ship's destruction is merely deferred for a few rounds in the interests of continuing the story and giving the PCs a chance to make it out with nothing but the clothes on their backs and whatever equipment they had on them at the time..


So as i said, it effectively is just a new health level for the ships just for PCs, in the intent of letting them have a little more chance to live then..

CRMcNeill wrote:
This result is a word-for-word copy of an existing result from the RAW's Starship Damage Chart. The only thing I did was move it from Severe Damage to Catastrophic Damage. How did you handle it when you got this result using WEG's rules?


Ship went boom, they died... That wording in the RAW "Combat is deadly" i take to heart. Better to not get HIT, or not even get into combat...

CRMcNeill wrote:
Ordinarily, yes, but now that I know how much it would irritate you, not only would I let the PCs live, I'd catch the whole thing on video and email it to you.


You scally wag.. I shall have to summon fourth the zombie legion to deal with you.. Mr. Green
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So as i said, it effectively is just a new health level for the ships just for PCs, in the intent of letting them have a little more chance to live then..

Semantics. But the difference is more one of degree, in the same sense that, in the interests of furthering the story, an NPC "killed" in a blaster fight can live just long enough to rasp out a cryptic clue to a PC in order to keep the story moving forward, as opposed to crashing to a halt. "Well, you guys screwed that one up. Head back to the cantina and assuming starting positions while I think up something new."

Escaping from a ship in the process of breaking apart, or wracked by fires and other hazards, is far more interesting and exciting than, "Boom, you're all dead. Everyone roll up new characters." The possibility of death remains, and is, in fact, inevitable if the characters don't un-@$$ quickly enough.

If you look at the RAW's Severely Damaged Chart, you'll see that there is actually a 1-in-6 chance of the ship getting a Destroyed result outright, and an additional 1-in-6 chance of getting the Structural Damage. That's a 1-in-3 chance of the ship being Destroyed right then or in 1D rounds without even getting a Destroyed result.

What I wanted was a bit more differentiation between the levels, so that Severely Damaged was more along the lines of "Your ship is fragged, and requires major repairs to ever be usable again, but it isn't in immediate danger of blowing up." However, I also wanted to retain the Structural Damage result, so I invented Catastrophic Damage, and added in the On-Fire rule, along with a 1-in-6 chance of a Destroyed result.

Playing in a cinematic universe (as opposed to a realistic one) means that the central characters of the plot (the PCs) have a greater chance of surviving things that would kill lesser beings (NPCs), at least up until the climactic moment where a dramatically appropriate death makes for good storytelling.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And how long do you see it taking to evac a ship blowing up before they get enguldfed? Even if in the pod, when it goes boom they should be dead unless already detached from the ship and a decent distance away.... And all that's not instantaneous. They have to have time to Unharness themselves, get up, open doors, Move to where the pod is, open it up, get inside, then eject it..
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
And how long do you see it taking to evac a ship blowing up before they get enguldfed? Even if in the pod, when it goes boom they should be dead unless already detached from the ship and a decent distance away.... And all that's not instantaneous. They have to have time to Unharness themselves, get up, open doors, Move to where the pod is, open it up, get inside, then eject it..

Do you really make your players muddle through all that? Personally, I think it's reasonable to assume the characters know how to do that stuff, and that it's incorporated into the phrase, "I run to the escape pod as fast as I can." Then just rule-of-thumb the distance (10-20 meters), tack on a Terrain modifier and make them roll their Running skill as normal. Complications and hilarity thus ensues.

I realize the concept offends your evil GM sensibilities, but try to picture it less as giving the PCs an out, and more like toying with your prey. Wink
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I view it, escape pods MUST be relatively useful, because they keep including them. If every ship to ship combat was "Well, the ship took deadly damage so you're all instantly dead", it would become a somewhat fatalistic part of space culture... your ship goes down, you gonna die.

But that's not the case... full-on deadly ship damage doesn't necessarily mean "Blown to smithereens", so much as "broken beyond primary function"... some secondary functions are going to continue to happen, even for a while after the ship is "dead". Consider the Executor crashing into the second Death Star... before someone decided to shank Palpatine's space station with a starship, there was a fairly long period for people to get to escape pods and get out... several rounds, by the game mechanics.

I'd say outright "blowed up" is going to be an extreme result, either from an improbably high damage roll, or a story factor.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:

Do you really make your players muddle through all that? Personally, I think it's reasonable to assume the characters know how to do that stuff, and that it's incorporated into the phrase, "I run to the escape pod as fast as I can." Then just rule-of-thumb the distance (10-20 meters), tack on a Terrain modifier and make them roll their Running skill as normal. Complications and hilarity thus ensues.

I realize the concept offends your evil GM sensibilities, but try to picture it less as giving the PCs an out, and more like toying with your prey. Wink


Well lets see... Maps for many ships, let's take one of the common ones i see in games, a TL-1800 freighter, show (at 30 meters long), anyone back in enginerring is relatively ok to make it to the pods in 1 round of movement, but those in the cockpit are borked over, since they have 3 doors to get through.. Those are not instantaneously opened.. And in practically every game i have played/ran where ships are in space combat, ALL Doors are shut to prevent a decompression in one space venting another..

Another common freighter, the L19, at 50 meters is worse, as those in the rear (where engineering is) are a lot further from the ONE pod.

Quote:
But that's not the case... full-on deadly ship damage doesn't necessarily mean "Blown to smithereens", so much as "broken beyond primary function"... some secondary functions are going to continue to happen, even for a while after the ship is "dead". Consider the Executor crashing into the second Death Star... before someone decided to shank Palpatine's space station with a starship, there was a fairly long period for people to get to escape pods and get out... several rounds, by the game mechanics.


So when the book says "Destroyed, ship blows up, all die" is really saying, the ship is not destroyed, just slightly destroyed?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mechanic Max: "It just so happens that your ship here is only Mostly Dead. There's a big difference between Mostly Dead and All Dead."

g, how's about you just come out and say "I don't like it, and I'm not going to use it," as opposed to just nit-picking around the edges of it?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: Changed Heavily Damaged #5 (Shields) to reflect the inclusion of Particle Shields, as with Lightly Damaged.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, there is an interesting loophole that came up in a different topic, regarding the Maneuverability and Engine results on the RAW Starship Damage Chart. Per those rules, it is possible to destroy a starship without inflicting any damage heavier than a Lightly Damaged result.

This is done by inflicting Lost Moves, which happens if the ship takes a Lightly Damaged hit to the Engines, or if it takes a Lightly Damaged hit to Maneuverability (if Maneuverability is 0D or has been reduced to 0D by previous damage). I'm thinking this is a little excessive.

What I'm thinking as a fix is changing the Lost Moves Result Table to this:
    -1 Move = The ship is limited to High Speed.
    -2 Moves = The ship is limited to Cruising Speed.
    -3 Moves = The ship is limited to Cautious Speed.
    -4 Moves = The ship's drives are disabled; it's dead in space. The drives can be repaired, but are Severely Damaged.
    -5 Moves = The ship's drives are destroyed; it's dead in space and the drives can not be repaired. The ship must either be abandoned or towed to a shipyard where a replacement engine can be installed.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never liked that rule from the main book, where if a ship gets enough lost moves, its destroyed.. So i like your new update/
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a similar note, I'm thinking of applying the same basic concept to Ionization damage. To make it easier to track, I'd like to just go with ion damage inflicting a blanket -1D to all actions and pertinent rolls involving the ship, including astrogation rolls and Hull rolls (up to -2D, reflecting the Particle Shields rules I added), as well as inflicting 1 (temporary) Lost Move per 1D of ionization, rolling off at a rate of 1D per round.

It would use the same chart as the Ion Cannon damage, but at -5D (Controls Dead), the ship is completely overloaded, which counts as Lightly Damaged for Repair purposes.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So a 3d blaster cannon on some ships could be rendered inert if the ship suffered 3 ionization results? Interesting.
I like. Very Happy
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
So a 3d blaster cannon on some ships could be rendered inert if the ship suffered 3 ionization results? Interesting.
I like. Very Happy

Very Happy
Yeah, I've changed up ion cannon quite a bit, but I really do think it takes ion cannon in a new and interesting direction.

I was wondering how I could fit this with the ESB scene where Luke's snowspeeder gets shot down, so I'd probably say that what happened there was a Severely Damaged #5 Result (Controls Damaged). The -3D penalty there would reduce a T-47's 3D Maneuverability to 0D, which would then qualify for a Controls Frozen result under Controls Ionized.
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garhkal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That it would.. And since it's controls DID seem dead which is why it crashed, it makes sense!
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