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Some Thoughts on Blaster Weapons
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a gaming standpoint, it'd be simpler to just give it the sci-fi-tech magic hand wave and just say that advanced technology has made barrel damage a non-issue, whether from advanced materials composition or some form of shielding. Not that excessive use couldn't cause a blaster to overheat, but I'd rather save that for Wild Dice failures.

There do need to be some limitations on what else you can do while using auto-fire Dice, though. I can see ruling that a short burst (1D or 2D, depending on the weapon) counts as a single action, but a full-time burst takes the entire round, and the character can only combine it with either a reaction skill or a basic move (less than All-Out).
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's more or less what my point was: 5-seconds of shooting would essentially take the entire turn. For me, it would reqquire forgoing reaction skills, since dodging and shooting accurately (on full auto) doesn't really make sense to me... though I could see it being done with the use of a force point...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes no sense. If cause your entire concentration/effort is spent in the whole 5 rounds, just standing there shooting, to where you could do no other action. Why would that all of a suddenly be muted if you spent a force point?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
That's more or less what my point was: 5-seconds of shooting would essentially take the entire turn. For me, it would reqquire forgoing reaction skills, since dodging and shooting accurately (on full auto) doesn't really make sense to me... though I could see it being done with the use of a force point...

I prefer to go with a major increase in difficulty as opposed to an all-out prohibition.

For example, even though the RAW prohibits any maneuvering while traveling at All-Out speed, I'd be willing to bet Anakin Skywalker spending a FP could pull it off; it would just be insanely difficult, but not impossible.

By the same token, a Wookiee or other strong species might be able to handle firing a repeater at full auto while side-stepping towards cover. Possible, just not easy.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To garhkal's comment:
The mechanics of a force point don't change the way actions are rolled, sure. I just meant to suggest that if a character wants to full auto and dodge, it would require so much effort, luck and awesomeness that the only way to pull it off in my mind would be to expend a force point to make it happen.

To crmcniell:
I rather think of dodge as diving out of the way, not "side stepping." In other words, dodging is a desparate maneuver. Its how I reconcile the fact that melee parry is how you "get out of the way" in mele combat, and why dodge can't be used in melee combat.

Whereas shooting on the move is something I would allow for anyone. Their movement would increase the difficulty bot of their attack and of their opponent's, but maneuvering while shooting does not constitute a "dodge" in my mind.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In any case, its your idea. Just throwing in my opinion.

A difference in interpretation sometimes stirs the pot of creativity.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
In any case, its your idea. Just throwing in my opinion.

A difference in interpretation sometimes stirs the pot of creativity.

That it does.

Perhaps a better approach would be to move Auto-Fire bonuses back the way I had it, then allow the fully automatic weapons the option of a full burst, much like a Full Dodge, granting the extra 1D of Auto-Fire Dice, but at the cost of a -3D MAP (the normal MAP penalty the Auto-Fire would cancel out).
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, that was the first thing that came to my mind, as well.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
Honestly, that was the first thing that came to my mind, as well.

Oddly enough, it took actually putting it in writing to see how silly it was from a gaming standpoint; hard to imagine any player accepting a -3D MAP to pick up a +1D bonus.

A simpler solution would be to...change it back how I originally had it, with 2D representing fully automatic and telling PCs that if they want to spend the entire round hosing off blaster bolts, they have to take multiple actions (I.e. multiple short bursts) and pay the MAP cost as normal.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's how I handle my version: a single action covers one burst... though I could see making a rule for cyclic fire just in case someone wants to do it...
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dph
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly are the Auto Fire rules you're referencing?

+2D to hit, Dam or both?

There are Auto fire rules in Space D6 but wasn't sure they worked that great...

Thanks!
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding of CRMcNiell's proposition is that the shooter can choose either to add the dice to the attack roll or the damage roll, or can split the bonus.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tossk wrote:
What exactly are the Auto Fire rules you're referencing?

+2D to hit, Dam or both?

There are Auto fire rules in Space D6 but wasn't sure they worked that great...

Thanks!
Naaman wrote:
My understanding of CRMcNeill's proposition is that the shooter can choose either to add the dice to the attack roll or the damage roll, or can split the bonus.

Essentially. Here's what I've got at this point:
    -A weapon with an Auto-Fire rating may add the dice value to:
      -Damage
      -Fire Control
      -MAP Reduction (can hit multiple targets in the same fire arc with a single shot).

    -The gunner must declare how the bonus will be applied at the same time he declares the shot.

    -Because automatic fire weapons have a tendency to scatter at range, the gunner may put a maximum of Auto-Fire - 2D into Damage at Long Range and Auto-Fire - 1D into Damage at Medium Range.

    -Auto-Fire dice may not be used to increase damage when firing at a target of a larger scale.

    -The fire rate equivalents are:
      1D = 4-round burst (like the 3-round burst on the M-16 and M-4)
      2D = 20-round burst (a short burst from a fully automatic assault rifle or machine gun)
      3D = 100-round burst (a short burst from an extremely high ROF weapon like a mini-gun)
      4D = Essentially a continuous stream of fire, like from a flamethrower or a beam weapon.

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Whill
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Auto-Fire Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Here's what I've got at this point:
    -A weapon with an Auto-Fire rating may add the dice value to:
      -Damage
      -Fire Control
      -MAP Reduction (can hit multiple targets in the same fire arc with a single shot).

    -The gunner must declare how the bonus will be applied at the same time he declares the shot.

    -Because automatic fire weapons have a tendency to scatter at range, the gunner may put a maximum of Auto-Fire - 2D into Damage at Long Range and Auto-Fire - 1D into Damage at Medium Range.

    -Auto-Fire dice may not be used to increase damage when firing at a target of a larger scale.

    -The fire rate equivalents are:
      1D = 4-round burst (like the 3-round burst on the M-16 and M-4)
      2D = 20-round burst (a short burst from a fully automatic assault rifle or machine gun)
      3D = 100-round burst (a short burst from an extremely high ROF weapon like a mini-gun)
      4D = Essentially a continuous stream of fire, like from a flamethrower or a beam weapon.

I'd like to confirm I understand auto-fire, please. Let's say I have a Riot Blaster Pistol with 2D Auto-Fire.

Fire Control itself offsets MAPs (the actual penalties themselves), so the third option "MAP Reduction (can hit multiple targets in the same fire arc with a single shot)" means that I can spend 1D of the two Auto-Fire dice to include an extra target within the same fire arc of a single shot, or that I can spend both auto-fire dice at attacking two additional targets in the same fire arc with a single shot, right? So the difference in just using the the auto-fire dice for fire control to offset the MAP penalties would be that, for better or worse I would be making a single attack roll for multiple targets instead of a separate attack rolls for each target, right? And I guess another difference would be that the single "multi-target" shot would all happen in the shooting character's turn in a single action segment of the round, instead of in separate action segments of the round, right? And for determining the outcome of the auto-fire shot it would be the single 'to hit' roll against each targets dodge and/or the range (and whatever other applicable) difficulties to see if the attack hits or misses each target, right? So the third option of auto-fire is not really a reduction of multiple action penalties, but rather a reduction in total actions, right?

And when you say "fire rate equivalents" and "X-round burst"s above, you are referring to real-world Earth equivalents shooting bullets, correct? This stuff is just FYI and not really a part of the mechanic directly, right?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:23 am    Post subject: Re: Auto-Fire Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
So the third option of auto-fire is not really a reduction of multiple action penalties, but rather a reduction in total actions, right?

The way I pictured it, the anti-MAP option would allow the shooter to declare shots like normal, with Auto-Fire counteracting the MAP for multiple targets. Basically, if you wanted to use the Riot Blaster to shoot at three separate targets, you would declare all three shots as normal, and roll separately for each shot. Normally, this would also result in a MAP of -2D for taking 3 separate shots. However, the use of the Auto-Fire dice would negate that penalty, allowing the shooter to roll his normal, unpenalized Blaster on all three rolls.

Quote:
And when you say "fire rate equivalents" and "X-round burst"s above, you are referring to real-world Earth equivalents shooting bullets, correct? This stuff is just FYI and not really a part of the mechanic directly, right?

Sorry, I should've been clearer. This is intended both as an example of equivalent forms of automatic fire found here in the real world, and as ammo consumption numbers for how many individual blaster rounds are fired by using a particular amount of Auto-Fire dice. A Blaster Rifle, for example, with an Auto-Fire of 1D, could fire either in semi-auto (firing a single blast per shot) or short burst (firing 4 blasts per shot). The Riot Blaster Pistol, with 2D Auto-Fire, could fire the same as the Blaster Rifle, but would also have the option of a full-auto burst, firing off 20 rounds for 2D of Auto-Fire.
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