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Whill
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 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | | And the Rey/Kylo Ren duel was great. When she trusted in the Force and started whipping his @$$ I wanted to cheer out loud. |
In my first viewing, a lot of people in the audience did cheer out loud when she called the lightsaber to her hand. When she trusted the Force and started whipping @$$, my eyes watered because it was such an awesome climax. I love Rey!
| jmanski wrote: | | I thought we'd find out who Rey's father was also. I was a little disappointed that we didn't. |
It's pretty obvious, but they have to save some stuff for the next sequel.
| Ninjaxenomorph wrote: | | Another less widespread belief I've seen is that she is descended from Obi-Wan somehow. That was Ewan McGregor calling her name in the vision she got, it was confirmed by Kenobi's VA in Clone Wars (who recorded the original line, before they actually got Ewan) |
Actually it's was Sir Alec Guinness who said Rey's name. (They snipped "Rey..." out of the word "afraid" that he spoke in the ANH line "Hello there! Come here my little friend. Don't be afraid.") Ewan McGregor said the rest of the line, "...these are your first steps." Yoda's voice is in the mix of Rey's vision too.
| griff wrote: | | I'm thinking Luke's kid, hidden on Jukuu to keep her safe from Snoke. |
Or safe from Kylo and the Knights of Ren.
| griff wrote: | | Rey could be a Skywalker, why else would she have such a reaction to touching they Skywalkers' lightsaber. |
| cheshire wrote: | She's a Skywalker. They never said it, but they put SOOO many post-it notes on the gal saying, "Whose daughter is she?" "Where are her parents?" "Why does she seem familiar?"
I'm pretty sure the paternity test is going to come back with Luke's name on it. |
| Bobmalooga wrote: | I pointed out to a friend of mine that Rey is everything that Anakin was made out to be from Episode 4. "A star pilot and a cunning warrior." truncated qoute is mine...
If she isn't Luke's daughter, they're leading you to that belief with everything that they do with the character. |
Yep.
| lurker wrote: | Isn't it just as likely that she is Han and Liea's daughter ???? She was saying Han's thoughts as he was thinking them, fitting so perfectly into the falcon. had early Han's ill luck and 'oh this is bad' reactions.
No they don't mention Han and Leia having a daughter, but that is because they are so focused on their corrupted, fallen son |
No, I do not think it is just as likely that Ren is Han and Leia's daughter. Not even close.
| Bobmalooga wrote: | | My only problem with her being Leia and Han's daughter (and I thought they were going to turn out to be twins, her and Kylo...) is that it would have been addressed. Either by Han or Leia. Her being Luke's daughter (at least the implication of that...) appears to be the way they were going. Everything from the saber calling to her, to her being the female version of everything Anakin was supposed to be. Add to that Chewbacca takes an immediate liking to her and Han, once he hears her name softens to her taking on an almost paternal role and offering her a place on his crew, just like he did with Luke. |
Exactly.
The central character of the classic trilogy was Luke, not Leia. The main musical theme of Star Wars is Luke's theme. The prequel trilogy centered on Luke's father, Anakin. Rey was clearly set-up as the central protagonist of this new trilogy. It makes too much sense for her to be Luke's daughter. Leia already has a kid in the new movie, the main villain.
Rey is the titular character of The Force Awakens. Her latent Force ability is awakened, thus discovering her true character. The plot of the whole movie revolves around everyone trying to find Luke Skywalker. In the end, Rey is the one that finds him. In mythology, the father quest represents finding one's true character. If the writers of the film have been reading their Joseph Campbell (and it seems they have), then Rey found her father.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:51 am Post subject: |
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So did 3po show up at all?? What of R2? Or were their roles replaced by BB8?
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jmanski
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: |
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You haven't seen it and you're in this thread Gark? Shame on you!
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Barrataria
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| lurker wrote: | Ok, me being me and arguing just to be a devils advocate .... like I did with my wife with this same conversation.
Isn't it just as likely that she is Han and Liea's daughter ???? She was saying Han's thoughts as he was thinking them, fitting so perfectly into the falcon. had early Han's ill luck and 'oh this is bad' reactions.
No they don't mention Han and Leia having a daughter, but that is because they are so focused on their corrupted, fallen son ... |
I'm with you, there were too many spots where the camera lingered on Han looking at her admiringly. And Chewie doing the same. I don't think they do that if they're not setting her up as the daughter. It's possible that was supposed to be showing us they were thinking of Luke but...
However, I do not conclude that Leia is her mom. IMO the offstage conversation between her and Leia was about "the unpleasantness" that split up Han and her. Like, some hotsy-totsy desert scavenger Force sensitive gal on Jakku. She is born just about the time [strike]Jacen[/strike] [strike]Ben[/strike] "Kylo" starts taking lessons from Gollum-with-a-crack-in-his-head. Leia, stud that she is, takes the high road and tells Rey, who then goes off to complete her training.
Then again, I'm probably overthinking this. The storyline is pretty light... I think the obvious twist is to have her be Luke's daughter, and that's probably what happens.
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RyanDarkstar
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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While I'll miss Han, I'm glad Chewbacca is still in the mix. I rewatched the original trilogy before heading to the cinema, and was pleasantly surprised at how much more screentime Chewie gets this time around. I'm happy he's sticking with Rey. Also, is it me, or does he look younger?
While I'm looking forward to seeing how Luke and Rey hash things out in VIII, I really hope we get more bro-time with Finn and Poe. They meet, are together for about 4 minutes, and are suddenly best friends for life.
I'd have to say the characters and the humor were my favorite things about The Force Awakens. As much as I loved everything else (action, locations, SFX, etc.), I'm really looking forward to see where the rest of the films take these characters. All of the characters, new and old, shined--whether good, bad, or other. It's a shame that we are only told that Anakin was "the best star pilot in the galaxy," when we actually see Poe in 20 seconds of screentime wipe out half a squadron of TIEs in one pass, while Finn exclaims from the ground, "That is one hell of a pilot!"
My inner child is immensely happy! 
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Barrataria
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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You ain't wrong. They cast the right person, wrote her a great part, and she and all her scenes were IMO the best in the film. I'd have a crush on her just like I did for Leia... except now I'm old enough to be her father. WAIT A TIC, whose intergalactic fecundity were we discussing?
| Whill wrote: | | a very detailed analysis of the force visions |
I think those took me so much by surprise (partially because... WTF? how did this treasure chest with one of the world's great artifacts get put in an intergalactic roadhouse?) I missed quite a bit. I look forward to drinking it in more second time round.
| whill wrote: | | Or safe from Kylo and the Knights of Ren. |
I don't know why the Knights of Ren sound like the Knights who Say Ni to me  Anyway, if he's her FULL brother, it's a pretty poor commentary on his force abilities that he could wander through her mind and not figure that out.
| bobmalooga wrote: | | I pointed out to a friend of mine that Rey is everything that Anakin was made out to be from Episode 4. "A star pilot and a cunning warrior." |
I'm just glad that we have a hero character like that!!!
| whill wrote: | | Rey is the titular character of The Force Awakens. Her latent Force ability is awakened, thus discovering her true character. The plot of the whole movie revolves around everyone trying to find Luke Skywalker. In the end, Rey is the one that finds him. In mythology, the father quest represents finding one's true character. If the writers of the film have been reading their Joseph Campbell (and it seems they have), then Rey found her father. |
I'd rather it were all a little seamier, but I'm more a fan of Harry Harrison and Fritz Leiber than Joseph Campbell
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jmanski
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have searched my feelings and have come to the conclusion that you are indeed correct, Whill; Rey must be Luke Skywalker's daughter.
I will be vastly disappointed if she is not.
I leaned over to my son during the climactic lightsaber fight and pointed out how she fought like Luke in ROTJ. He said he was thinking the same thing.
God I can't wait for Episode 8!
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jmanski
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Oh. Almost forgot to expound on my 9.25/10 score rationale.
I deducted 1/2 point for R2 not being in the movie, but added back a quarter point after he was, indeed, there albeit briefly.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Barrataria wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | <force vision> |
I think those took me so much by surprise (partially because... WTF? how did this treasure chest with one of the world's great artifacts get put in an intergalactic roadhouse?) I missed quite a bit. I look forward to drinking it in more second time round. |
That question was addressed but not completely answered. The little ancient orange alien said she is not a Jedi but she is Force-sensitive. After the Force vision and Rey running off, Han sees the lightsaber, seems to recognize it, and asks the lady where she got that. She said it was a question for another time. The question will probably be answered in at least a canon work if not a movie itself.
| Barrataria wrote: | | lurker wrote: | | No they don't mention Han and Leia having a daughter, but that is because they are so focused on their corrupted, fallen son |
I'm with you, there were too many spots where the camera lingered on Han looking at her admiringly. And Chewie doing the same. I don't think they do that if they're not setting her up as the daughter. It's possible that was supposed to be showing us they were thinking of Luke but...
Then again, I'm probably overthinking this. |
I just saw the film for the third time today, and I did not notice a single instance of Chewie looking at Rey admiringly (perhaps I missed that). Each time Han looked at her with what I would say was a combination of surprise and admiration was in regards to her technical know-how and ability with highly modified/jury-rigged machinery, and he verbally told her he was looking for someone who appreciates the Falcon. Han also expressed that she can handle herself in a fight. To me it recalled Han trying to get Luke to join them before the Battle of Yavin. "You're pretty good in a fight. We could use you."
| Barrataria wrote: | | Anyway, if <Ren's> her FULL brother, it's a pretty poor commentary on his force abilities that he could wander through her mind and not figure that out. |
| Barrataria wrote: | | The storyline is pretty light... I think the obvious twist is to have her be Luke's daughter, and that's probably what happens. |
| Barrataria wrote: | | I'd rather it were all a little seamier, but I'm more a fan of Harry Harrison and Fritz Leiber than Joseph Campbell |
I think I understand now. You were on one hand considering the possibility that Rey is Han's daughter (and half-brother to Ren), and on the hand expressing a wish that were the case because it would be seamier and you like it that way. I'll be happy with whatever makes good characters, story and movies - I was mainly positing what I feel happens to be the case based on my knowledge of George Lucas, Star Wars and Joseph Campbell.
George Lucas has made it very clear Joseph Campbell and thus mythology are huge influences on Star Wars. Joseph Campbell watched the classic trilogy in the final years of his life and spoke on the deep mythological meanings of Star Wars. Michael Arndt, who wrote the initial screenplay of TFA, has given lectures on the artistic merits of Star Wars. TFA fits the father quest archetype for Rey. I can really appreciate the mythological aspect but I don't feel it necessarily has to be that way to be good.
| Barrataria wrote: |
You ain't wrong. They cast the right person, wrote her a great part, and she and all her scenes were IMO the best in the film. I'd have a crush on her just like I did for Leia... except now I'm old enough to be her father. WAIT A TIC, whose intergalactic fecundity were we discussing? |
I am just old enough to be her father, but I have no qualms about admitting to having a crush on her. It's only a crush!
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| jmanski wrote: | I have searched my feelings and have come to the conclusion that you are indeed correct, Whill; Rey must be Luke Skywalker's daughter.
I will be vastly disappointed if she is not.
I leaned over to my son during the climactic lightsaber fight and pointed out how she fought like Luke in ROTJ. He said he was thinking the same thing.
God I can't wait for Episode 8! |
Looking forward to it for sure!
| bobmalooga wrote: | | I pointed out to a friend of mine that Rey is everything that Anakin was made out to be from Episode 4. |
And Ben Solo/Kylo Ren is a lot like Darth Vader was made out to be by Ben Kenobi in Episode IV. Ren was a former Jedi pupil until he turned to evil, betraying and murdering the Jedi, who are now all but extinct. And Solo, who is the Ben Kenobi/Qui-Gon Jinn of this sequel trilogy, is the one who had told this to Luke's daughter. Maybe this makes Luke, the last remaining Jedi in exile, the Yoda of this trilogy!
| RyanDarkstar wrote: | | I'll miss Han |
Since 1977 and never changing, Han Solo has been my favorite Star Wars character. I didn't miss Han all these years we thought RotJ was the last movie Han would be in. But putting him in one more Star Wars sequel means it would have to be significant. I'm so thrilled by how important Han's role was in TFA, and I couldn't be more pleased by it. Han got to be Solo again, but then drawn back into galactic conflict and be a big hero one last time before going out dramatically. And we do still get a future movie about a young Solo.
| RyanDarkstar wrote: | | I'm glad Chewbacca is still in the mix. I rewatched the original trilogy before heading to the cinema, and was pleasantly surprised at how much more screentime Chewie gets this time around. I'm happy he's sticking with Rey. Also, is it me, or does he look younger? |
In a way, yes. I think they were trying to convey that Wookiees are long-lived species and 30 years is nothing for Chewie, so he should look the same age as before and not appear to have aged. But the new Chewie suit is just a lot better than the one from the 70s/80s so it comes across looking younger. But it's not jarring or drastic so I can just ignore it and see the same old Chewie we've always had.
| RyanDarkstar wrote: | | While I'm looking forward to seeing how Luke and Rey hash things out in VIII, I really hope we get more bro-time with Finn and Poe. They meet, are together for about 4 minutes, and are suddenly best friends for life. |
Yes, indeed. Finn is clearly meant to be the second main character after Rey, so I expect we'll get more Finn & Poe adventures when the plot requires Rey to be separated from Finn.
| RyanDarkstar wrote: | | It's a shame that we are only told that Anakin was "the best star pilot in the galaxy," when we actually see Poe in 20 seconds of screentime wipe out half a squadron of TIEs in one pass, while Finn exclaims from the ground, "That is one hell of a pilot!" |
We got to see Anakin performed some thrilling piloting heroics in the Battle of Coruscant.
| RyanDarkstar wrote: | I'd have to say the characters and the humor were my favorite things about The Force Awakens. As much as I loved everything else (action, locations, SFX, etc.), I'm really looking forward to see where the rest of the films take these characters. All of the characters, new and old, shined--whether good, bad, or other...
My inner child is immensely happy! |
Mine too!
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jmanski
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:37 am Post subject: |
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The characters were so well done. My son and I were discussing Finn and how he made the movie better as the "everyman" you are experiencing the movie through. He always has the instinct to do what the audience would do in real life: run. And he has the same crush on Rey that almost everyone else has. He tries to be the voice of "reason", but the heroes take the dangerous heroic path and he goes along. In the end, when lives are on the line, he volunteers for the job that is the most dangerous just to have a chance to rescue his friend.
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Bobmalooga
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
| bobmalooga wrote: | | I pointed out to a friend of mine that Rey is everything that Anakin was made out to be from Episode 4. |
And Ben Solo/Kylo Ren is a lot like Darth Vader was made out to be by Ben Kenobi in Episode IV. Ren was a former Jedi pupil until he turned to evil, betraying and murdering the Jedi, who are now all but extinct. And Solo, who is the Ben Kenobi/Qui-Gon Jinn of this sequel trilogy, is the one who had told this to Luke's daughter. Maybe this makes Luke, the last remaining Jedi in exile, the Yoda of this trilogy!
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Yoda or the Obi-wan of the trilogy
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Barrataria
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | The question will probably be answered in at least a canon work if not a movie itself. |
Episode VII: The Loss Leader  I remembered all that stuff, but thanks.
| whill wrote: | | I just saw the film for the third time today, and I did not notice a single instance of Chewie looking at Rey admiringly (perhaps I missed that). |
I think there were two, definitely when he and Rey take off together. Actually those were what really got me thinking even though I concur with you that the weight of evidence/Hollywoodiana is that she's Luke's. (so.... did Luke have a little problem with "attachment" right before he took off? Maybe there's more to add onto the Manicheanism
| whill wrote: | | I was mainly positing what I feel happens to be the case based on my knowledge of George Lucas, Star Wars and Joseph Campbell. |
Yeah I can't really argue that, I saw someone on another message board concoct an argument from the etymology of "Luke" and "Rey" which was interesting. Oh, and Michael Arndt's script was sent to the trash compactor
| whill wrote: | | I have no qualms about admitting to having a crush on her. It's only a crush! |
You have good taste, sir.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Barrataria wrote: | | I concur with you that the weight of evidence/Hollywoodiana is that she's Luke's. (so.... did Luke have a little problem with "attachment" right before he took off?) |
Possibly. Did Luke even know about the attachment restrictions of the old Jedi order? If he did, did he agree? And regardless, there is a very practical reason to not adhere to that. Since the ability to use the Force has a genetic basis, the easiest way to create future generations of Jedi would be to have Jedi procreate. And that would not necessarily require attachment (here I am getting seamy).
| Barrataria wrote: | | Oh, and Michael Arndt's script was sent to the trash compactor |
Not completely. Michael Arndt is still credited as one of three screenplay writers, which would not be required if they just jettisoned his script and started over fresh. While Arndt's screenplay was largely rewritten by Abrams and Kasdan, elements of it remain in the final product. I know for sure he created the character of Rey.
| jmanski wrote: | | The characters were so well done. My son and I were discussing Finn and how he made the movie better as the "everyman" you are experiencing the movie through. He always has the instinct to do what the audience would do in real life: run. And he has the same crush on Rey that almost everyone else has. He tries to be the voice of "reason", but the heroes take the dangerous heroic path and he goes along. In the end, when lives are on the line, he volunteers for the job that is the most dangerous just to have a chance to rescue his friend. |
Agreed. I love Finn too.
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Barrataria
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Did Luke even know about the attachment restrictions of the old Jedi order? |
He certainly got lectures about it, although not necessarily the Jesuit rule-of-Ignatius version.
| Whill wrote: | | If he did, did he agree? |
I wasn't aware they were supposed to pick and choose Then again, he did say "I am a Jedi, like my father before me... 'scuse me while I duck off to the cheap motel behind the Senate chambers!!"
| Whill wrote: | | And regardless, there is a very practical reason to not adhere to that. Since the ability to use the Force has a genetic basis, the easiest way to create future generations of Jedi would be to have Jedi procreate. And that would not necessarily require attachment (here I am getting seamy). |
Haha, I remember the "Jedi baby farm" thread a while back, and I concur it's still a good idea. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I thought the choice of Skellig Michael was most interesting... one of the most inspired monastic hideaways ever. A good place to go to dodge attachment!
I will be curious to see what, if anything, Luke kept or made up for his Jedi Academy (and pray that it's not much like the EU version!). I was thinking today I hope that there's more exposition of those events in Ep. VIII, via flashback or whatever.
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