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Post-RotJ Canon Continuity (TFA Spoilers!)
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Whill
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:24 am    Post subject: Post-RotJ Canon Continuity (TFA Spoilers!) Reply with quote

Just some various things I've picked up from the StarWars.com, Wookieepedia, Before the Awakening, TFA Visual Guide, and other sources...

Poe Dameron was born before TESB to two Rebel parents. In the Battle of Endor, Poe's mother flew an A-Wing and his father was in General Solo's Endor strike team.

After the Battle of Endor, Leia soon became pregnant and the new Republic was formed. It's first capital was Chandrila, and the new Senate elected Mon Mothma to be its first Chancellor. Ackbar became a Grand Admiral in the Republic Navy. The Empire was shattered by various claimants to the Imperial throne and infighting, so lose battle after battle with the Republic as they drove coreward. Toddler Poe Dameron's parents muster out of service and move to a new colony on Yavin IV. Ben Solo was born to Leia Organa and Han Solo.

About a year after Endor, a decisive Republic victory was won by Grand Admiral Ackbar at the Battle of Jakku. Soon after that, the Empire bowed to all the demands of Republic and a galactic concordance was ratified which limited the Empire's territories to pre-defined areas from the Inner Rim to the Core Worlds. The Coruscant system went to the Republic. The terms of the treaty forbade the Empire from claiming or entering Coruscant or any new Republic territory. The Empire was forbidden from building new stormtrooper forces and making new star destroyers (and superweapons). The Empire had to make heavy war reparations which further limits its ability to wage war. Many Imperial forces abandoned the Empire for the Unknown Regions (in accordance with Palpatine's interest in some Dark Side source/ultimate power there). The Empire was left in shambles with a lot of internal unrest, and a cold war began with the Republic. The Republic realized Mon Mothma's dream for galactic peace and began a substantial military disarmament. Leia was opposed to disarmament so she was marginalized in Republic politics. The First Order began its rise to power unchecked in the Unknown Regions.

At some unspecified time between the Galactic Concordance and TFA, the old Empire completely imploded and its territories were claimed by the new Republic. The new Republic's capital world was no longer Coruscant - the capital rotates among member worlds every couple years. Grand Admiral Ackbar retired.

Poe Dameron piloted his first starfighter at Age 6. (Wizard! Anakin who?) Finn was born 7 years after Endor, and taken from his family by the First Order to be raised as a stormtrooper very early in life. 11 years after Endor, Rey was born. 5-7 years after Rey was born, she was abandoned on Jakku. Poe grew up, joined new Republic starfighter corp and eventually rose in rank to Commander.

On Jakku, Rey scavenged a flight simulator computer and jury-rigged it to working condition by way of hooking other computers up to it. Rey spent countless hours learning to fly all kinds of ships. Rey also found a crashed light freighter in the desert and restored it to working condition, flying it twice before it was stolen from her (before she could sell it).

Although First Order stormtroopers may be better trained than their Imperial predecessors, they are still not PC-level characters. Finn completed his stormtrooper training in the top 1% of his class and was considered officer material. His only poor marks were showing more devotion to his peers over his devotion to the First Order, the mission and orders. All stormtroopers do receive melee training in general. The melee weapon that cannot be damaged by lightsabers is a weapon carried by all riot control stormtroopers troopers.

Captain Phasma has more authority in the First Order military hierarchy than her rank suggests. Phasma was considered nearly equal in authority to General Hux and Kylo Ren.

After the Republic dismissed Leia's fears about the rising threat of the First Order, she formed the Resistance which started as an underground organization within the Republic, with top members being some high-ranking military officers and some senators. Leia coaxed Admiral Ackbar out of retirement to assist, and Nien Nunb also joined the Resistance. Months before TFA, Leia recruited Poe Dameron to join the Resistance, and he retained his Republic rank of Commander. Poor Nien Nunb is only a Lt. Commander in the Resistance, and he joined the Alliance before Poe was even born! Now the Resistance is a completely independent organization from the Republic (but with secret ties to it).

Right before TFA, Poe completed a mission involving a Republic senator that was secretly working with the First Order, and he uncovered the name of Lor San Tekka (Max von Sydow in the film) as someone who may have information on Luke Skywalker's whereabouts, so it then became a race between the First Order and the Resistance to find Luke. (Lor San Tekka was a member of the Church of the Force, an underground religion dating back to the formation of the Empire.) Leia then sent Poe on the mission to Jakku leading into the beginning of TFA.

TFA takes place 30 or maybe 30.5 years after RotJ. In TFA, Chewbacca is 234 years old, Poe is 32, Kylo Ren is 29-30 years old, Finn is 23 and Rey is 19 (but nearly 20 according to the novelization).
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Teazia
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice post, thank you for pasting pieces together. Was all this info released before the film was unleashed on us?

Cheers
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Whill
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teazia wrote:
Nice post, thank you for pasting pieces together. Was all this info released before the film was unleashed on us?

No, most of this was released on 12/18 to preserve the film.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice rundown.. Though i wonder. "Although First Order stormtroopers may be better trained than their Imperial predecessors, they are still not PC-level characters. "

What would that translate to in game? Would First order stormies have a base starting stats of 15d in attributes (vice 12d for standard imps and 18d for PCs) with say 7d of starting skills??
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garhkal wrote:
Nice rundown.. Though i wonder. "Although First Order stormtroopers may be better trained than their Imperial predecessors, they are still not PC-level characters. "

What would that translate to in game? Would First order stormies have a base starting stats of 15d in attributes (vice 12d for standard imps and 18d for PCs) with say 7d of starting skills??

Could be. I was just trying to address the fact of Finn being so good while only being a stormtrooper, which the game considered mooks. It was was specified in canon that Finn was more skilled then at least 99% of all other new stormtroopers. And First Order stormtroopers may be better than Imperial stormtroopers.
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Teazia
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is also hinted that he is Force Sensitive, with his bloody hand awakening and "how did I do that?" turret shooting while flying through the desert. This may or may not be the case.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
This is a minor point, but worth mentioning here... I find using ABY to be unnecessarily confusing. When discussing events that take place in between RotJ and TFA, I find it easiest to discuss years after RotJ...

shootingwomprats wrote:
I read that Kylo Ren is 30ish and Rey I believe 20. This brings up some interesting things. We know that TFA starts ~30 years after RotJ and the Empire was defeated a year or so after that.

4 ABY Battle of Endor
5 ABY Empire defeated at Battle of Jakku
Ben Skywalker born
14 ABY Rey born
18 ABY Rey hidden on Jakku
34 The Force Awakens

These numbers are approximations but I think they serve as decent bench marks.

1. It makes sense that Rey was hidden in the same year the New Jedi Order is destroyed by Ben/Kylo...

Thoughts?

Whill wrote:
...We don't know when Ben/Ren crossed-over and slaughtered the Jedi. But we do know that officially Ren is 29-30 in TFA, and Rey is 19. Rey appears to have been 5-7 in the vision showing her being dropped off on Jakku. If that occurred in response to the Jedi massacre, then Ren could have been 15-18 when it happened.

In TFA Visual Guide, Chewbacca is 234 years old, which places TFA as 30 years after RotJ. By saying Kylo Ren is 29-30 in TFA, that must mean that he was conceived on Endor and born less than a year later, which would technically make him still 29 in TFA (perhaps the film is about 30.5 years after RotJ so maybe Ren is going on 30).

I agree that it is likely that Rey being placed on Jakku may be in response to Kylo Ren's massacre of Luke's new Jedi order, but I think you may be underestimating Rey's age at that time. Everything I've read everywhere estimates her age to have been 5-7 years old. Ren is 10-11 years older than Rey, which would make Ren 15-18 at the time Rey was dropped off on Jakku, and that would mean Luke has been in seclusion for about 12 years or more.

We know that the Battle of Jakku is slightly over a year after RotJ. TFA takes place about 30 years after RotJ, but I have read some '30 years ago' references to the Battle of Jakku, so TFA could be about 30.5 years after RotJ (which allows both events to be rounded off to 30 years ago). Kylo Ren is 29-30 years old in TFA, while in Canon, Anakin was born 9-10 years before TPM. It had previously been established that Anakin was almost 10 in TPM, and a month past turning 20 in AotC, which was a little over 10 years after TPM. I take from that that the ranged ages mean the lower age but nearing the higher age, which would make sense for Ben Solo (Kylo Ren) if he was conceived on Endor and TFA was 30.5 years later.

The TFA novelization states that Rey is 19 but "nearly twenty", which means she is 10 years younger than Kylo Ren. Rey being left on Jakku has been pinned down to when she was 5. If that was in response to Kylo Ren's Jedi massacre as we suspect, that would mean that Kylo Ren was 15 when that occurred. The novelization also states that his confrontation with Han Solo was the first time Han had seen his son's face as a grown man. In Rey's vision, Ren had his mask on and appeared to be the same height as his adult self. Boys can reach their maximum height by age 15, so I think it is likely that is when it occurred. The novelization makes it more clear that Snoke had been working behind the scenes to seduce Ben to the Dark Side since his youth, so the Jedi massacre could have been years in the making.

And all this would mean that by TFA, Luke had been in exile for about 15 years.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
And all this would mean that by TFA, Luke had been in exile for about 15 years.

It had already been established that in Rey's Force vision when Luke puts his cybernetic hand on Artoo, that takes place during the Jedi Massacre.

I just finished reading The Art of SW TFA, and costume concept artist Glyn Dillon seems to confirmed the timeframe of the Jedi Massacre when speaking about the two Luke Skywalker costumes in the film (the massacre and the end of the film when Rey finds him). Costume designer "Michael Kaplan didn't want Luke to still be in the same Jedi robes he wore fifteen years before."
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Post-RotJ Canon Continuity (TFA Spoilers!) Reply with quote

I'm working my way through the TFA Art book also, it's quite interesting. I kinda like the idea of Rey building her own ship from salvage over the years, too bad they nixed it in the final film (though by substituting the Falcon, the choice is understandable).

But wait, Kylo/Ben was conceived on Endor? Someone should've turned a hose on those two! Embarassed I guess I'm used to the EU timeline that gave them a few years of semi-engagement, and then a couple years before children. Very Victorian and proper.

In broad outline, this 'new' post-Endor history doesn't seem terribly different from what was established in various novels, etc.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Post-RotJ Canon Continuity (TFA Spoilers!) Reply with quote

BluMax wrote:
I'm working my way through the TFA Art book also, it's quite interesting. I kinda like the idea of Rey building her own ship from salvage over the years, too bad they nixed it in the final film (though by substituting the Falcon, the choice is understandable).

They semi-salvaged (pun intended) that idea in that Rey's speeder is a costume job she built from cannibalized parts of other speeder. And in the canon Rey story in the Before the Awakening Rey had rebuilt a wrecked light freighter and flew it twice before it was stolen from her (before she could sell it).

BluMax wrote:
But wait, Kylo/Ben was conceived on Endor? Someone should've turned a hose on those two! Embarassed I guess I'm used to the EU timeline that gave them a few years of semi-engagement, and then a couple years before children. Very Victorian and proper.

The Visual Guide established TFA is 30 years after RotJ and Kylo Ren is 29-30 years old. So simple math puts the conception very soon after RotJ. I think an Endor conception is fitting since for the character since he later somehow recovered Vader's melty helmet from Endor.

The Rebels were elated by the deaths of Palpatine and Vader plus the destruction of the new Death Star and overall victory in the battle. What a party that must have been! Maybe the Ewoks busted out the Sunberry wine, and then Han and Leia found an unused hut and... used it. Maybe Chief Chirpa even married them in a real Ewok wedding ceremony first. We know from the TFA novelization that Han and Leia were married but separated. Maybe they got married as a result of the pregnancy.

BluMax wrote:
In broad outline, this 'new' post-Endor history doesn't seem terribly different from what was established in various novels, etc.

The war between the New Republic and the remnants of the Empire ended only a little over one year after RotJ. That is radically divergent from the EU.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Post-RotJ Canon Continuity (TFA Spoilers!) Reply with quote

Whill wrote:
The Visual Guide established TFA is 30 years after RotJ and Kylo Ren is 29-30 years old. So simple math puts the conception very soon after RotJ. I think an Endor conception is fitting since for the character since he later somehow recovered Vader's melty helmet from Endor.

The Rebels were elated by the deaths of Palpatine and Vader plus the destruction of the new Death Star and overall victory in the battle. What a party that must have been! Maybe the Ewoks busted out the Sunberry wine, and then Han and Leia found an unused hut and... used it. Maybe Chief Chirpa even married them in a real Ewok wedding ceremony first. We know from the TFA novelization that Han and Leia were married but separated. Maybe they got married as a result of the pregnancy.

Those are all possibilities, but sounds too much like Jersey Shore for my taste. Wink I prefer to think there might be a typo and Ben Organa-Solo is actually 28 or so. But it's best not to think too much about sexual relations in Star Wars.

On the last point, 1 year for the entire Empire to collapse seems truncated, but I suppose if there were spontaneous uprisings throughout the galaxy (as we actually see in ROTJ SE), maybe . . .
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject: Intoxicating! Reply with quote

Bonus points awarded to Whill for sunberry reference. Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Intoxicating! Reply with quote

Cap'nCodskale wrote:
Bonus points awarded to Whill for sunberry reference. Cool


I admit I had to look up that reference, but here they are!



(So I guess all those rumors that Ewoks are carnivorous little cannibals aren't entirely true.)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Intoxicating! Reply with quote

Cap'nCodskale wrote:
Bonus points awarded to Whill for sunberry reference. Cool

How many points for Griffindor?

BluMax wrote:
I admit I had to look up that reference

I got it from The Haunted Village episode of the Ewoks cartoon. The Ewoks had to use this magic soap to make the sunberry bushes invisible so a dragon wouldn't take them.

BluMax wrote:
So I guess all those rumors that Ewoks are carnivorous little cannibals aren't entirely true.

Well, Ewoks are carnivorous cannibals only on special occasions, like the coming of the Golden God who was prophesied to bring his own feast with him, and the disappearance of the Death Moon, bringer of the tasty white-shelled Skull Ones.

BluMax wrote:
Those are all possibilities, but sounds too much like Jersey Shore for my taste. Wink

I don't know what that means, but I probably don't want to know.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Post-RotJ Canon Continuity Reply with quote

BluMax wrote:
I prefer to think there might be a typo and Ben Organa-Solo is actually 28 or so.

The problem is that the younger Ben Solo is, the less credible the Jedi massacre becomes. After all, his grandfather was already a full-fledged Jedi Knight in his mid-20s before he slaughtered everyone in his Jedi Temple. A 15 year-old padawan is already pushing it as it is, even though he grows up up to be a nutjob who talks to his grandfather's melty helmet.

IMO, the real failure of TFA continuity is making the film only 30 years after RotJ. To better match the age of the classic trinity actors, I would have had TFA take place about 35 years later.

BluMax wrote:
On the last point, 1 year for the entire Empire to collapse seems truncated, but I suppose if there were spontaneous uprisings throughout the galaxy (as we actually see in ROTJ SE), maybe . . .

I completely agree about the Empire's quick collapse. If Palpatine left no clear succession rules for his Empire, then I can see a chaotic period filled with many claimants to the throne struggling for control, and that could give the upper hand to the Alliance/New Republic, allowing them gain a lot of ground fast. But I would still think that a few strong leaders would rise to control splinters of the former Galactic Empire, for a while anyway.

In canon, not only is the Galactic Civil War over only one year after RotJ, but the Empire still existed in the inner regions of the galaxy for a while, so it's just like the new Republic just gave up on freeing all those sectors in their rush for peace and starved them out economically in a cold war until the Empire imploded and the Republic just moved in. It seems Disneyfilm's post-RotJ timeline was in rush to resolve the situations of the original trilogy just to set-up the sequel trilogy's new backstory as early as possible. I'm disappointed in Disney's Canon Story Group.

For my personal SW timeline I've added a few years in between AotC and RotJ, so when the sequel trilogy is all said and done I may add some years to my post-RotJ time period too, and will likely give the post-RotJ Empire(s) more life.
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