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Converting Consumables to Endurance Dice
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an adaptation of the Fuel Cell rules from the 1E of Tramp Freighters. Under that system, a ship's consumption rate varies based on what it was doing, so a ship parked in orbit around a planet would burn less Consumables than it would traveling at high speeds or engaging in combat.

Yes, a GM could track by the day, but it ends up being much easier to calculate based on "what the ship did," rather than "how much time did the ship spend doing it."
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Bren
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Yes, a GM could track by the day, but it ends up being much easier to calculate based on "what the ship did," rather than "how much time did the ship spend doing it."
I'm not seeing why it would be easier to keep a running total based on nine different items than to track just one (the number of days).
    [1] Flew from orbit to surface, or vice versa: +1
    [2] Flew from orbit to hyper-limit, or vice versa: +1
    [3] Made a hyperspace jump: +1
    [4] Every day in hyperspace: +1
    [5] Flew at All-Out = +2
    [6] Engaged in Combat = +2
    [8] Took Light Damage = +2 or Took Heavy Damage = +4;
    [9] Overloaded [Cargo or Passengers] = +1 or Badly Overloaded = +3
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then this probably isn't the House Rule for you.
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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Then this probably isn't the House Rule for you.


Nor I.

I believe I get your intent. When I was running a post-Apocalyptic zombie game, I didn't like the idea of the players knowing exactly how far a tank (or a couple gallons) of gas would take them. I didn't like the idea of "if I put in X litres of gas, we are going to be able to go X.3452 km"

To simulate when your car is registering "E"...but you are trying to squeeze every last drop for locomotion. It promotes a feeling of desperation and being grateful for every trickle of fuel you can scrounge from a derelict car.

So I had a random factor involved in when you run on fumes...and then when you are totally dry.

But that's not how *I* run Star Wars. I track day by day consumables. The crunch for down on their luck spacers comes from knowing how low they are and pooling their petty cash to pay for just a couple more days...when the ship has capacity for a few months of consumables.

And the randomness and nail-biting comes from the varability of the hyperspace jumps. It will take us 4 days if we play it safe..but we've only got 2 days of breathable air...so lets plot that speedier course.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rather appreciate the endurance dice as a concept.
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Bren
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
I rather appreciate the endurance dice as a concept.
If using endurance dice saved calculation and tracking details for fuel and/or consumables (the way someone did for ammo) I'd like them as an implementation.
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Whill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Dredwulf60 wrote:
Re-reading what you wrote again, I see that it's not really about less bookkeeping. It's about putting it behind the GM screen/ after-game admin so it doesn't interfere with or eclipse the story. Gotcha.

Exactly. It's taking a page from episodic media like Firefly or Battlestar Galactica, where critical supply shortages were something built into specific episodes. Having it happen between sessions also gives the GM breathing room to build that complication into the next session, along with basic guidelines for how urgent it it.

I can see what you're going for and how some may find it useful.

This isn't an issue for me because the way I run campaigns, it is assumed that the crew has other jobs/missions in between played-out adventures, so if I want to have a 'consumables low' story then it doesn't always matter so much what the status of consumables was at the last adventure because I can just handwave that X consumable is low now due to Y. And if running out of X consumable would be a big problem for an adventure then X consumable got topped off since the last adventure. Refilling/restocking consumables is usually something that occurs in between adventures, and for tramp campaigns the monetary expenditures involved are usually a part of the mundane costs that are paid for by those offscreen jobs. I don't even track consumables and only consider that stat as a general guideline for me to keep in mind. This system works for me.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To piggyback and maybe run tangeant off of Whill's post, the style of the campaign is a major consideration, as well as the relevant plot hooks for any given adventure.

For PCs who are haigh profile outlaws, for example, that they cant even land on a planet without taking considerable risks, making an endurance check every once in a while may be the solution when the GM doesnt want to "make up" the reasons why the PCs havent had a chance to top off.

On the other hand, for a campaign that only needs an excuse to get the PCs to land somewhere, just call for a consumables check. Eventually, it will fail (or the PCs would start to realize that they are usong supplies faster than they are replenishing etc, etc).

Even simpler, you could just call foranendurance check at the start (or end, or whatever) of any adventure where the PCs have not had a reasonable amount of time/opportunity to restock, withput tracking the specific parameters.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, using Endurance Dice, I wonder how long a capital ship can be out on a mission, or patrol?

And what if a ship goes on a mission that takes a long time , in game, but is still resolved in only one game session. For example, a scout ship that spends several weeks or moths getting to a remote area could arrive at the desired location only to have every system die out.

I think at the very least ships should have some sort of backup system for Endurance that could be used much like a backup hyperdrive to get them home. Something like 1/3rd the ship's normal Endurance seems like a decent starting point. Ship's that have a lot of redundancy might have an extra die or two.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Hmm, using Endurance Dice, I wonder how long a capital ship can be out on a mission, or patrol?

As long as the plot needs it to be. Any sort of resupply would be taking place off-screen, so a ship being short of supplies would be part of the plot, or not a factor at all. In fact, hitting the ship while it is UNREPing may BE the plot of a particular episode; destroy the ship or otherwise disrupt the UNREP to keep it from performing the impending attack on the Sector's Rebel HQ.
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
atgxtg wrote:
Hmm, using Endurance Dice, I wonder how long a capital ship can be out on a mission, or patrol?

As long as the plot needs it to be. Any sort of resupply would be taking place off-screen, so a ship being short of supplies would be part of the plot, or not a factor at all. In fact, hitting the ship while it is UNREPing may BE the plot of a particular episode; destroy the ship or otherwise disrupt the UNREP to keep it from performing the impending attack on the Sector's Rebel HQ.


Then what is the purpose of Endurance Dice? Based on the original post, I figured it was to handle some of the logistics of operating a ship. But if things are going to be entirely plot driven, it looks to negate the whole point of Endurance Dice in the first place.

Or are you just thinking of using this as a way to make upkeep a more significant factor for merchants? I just wondering how and when you would apply your Endurance Dice rules. I'm not saying they're bad or anything, just trying to see what you are going for.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
Or are you just thinking of using this as a way to make upkeep a more significant factor for merchants?

This, and for starfighters, as well, pretty much for the ships PCs are most likely to use. There may be circumstances where a capital ship needs to roll its Endurance dice (such as PCs in a privateer campaign), but for the most part, the general idea is, "that capital ship will (almost) always have better Endurance than you."
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atgxtg
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
atgxtg wrote:
Or are you just thinking of using this as a way to make upkeep a more significant factor for merchants?

This, and for starfighters, as well, pretty much for the ships PCs are most likely to use. There may be circumstances where a capital ship needs to roll its Endurance dice (such as PCs in a privateer campaign), but for the most part, the general idea is, "that capital ship will (almost) always have better Endurance than you."


So, basically, it's designed as a way to make the PCs lives more difficult by giving them one more thing to worry about. Okay.

I'm not sold on the dice approach though. A ship could do the exact same thing on multiple occasions and get wildly different results - for no good reason. I think that for something like this, a fixed value would work better than a die code. It doesn't make sense to me that an X-Wing could fly across the galaxy one day, without any supply problems, but not make it to a nearby moon the next.

Maybe there should be a certain threshold where no roll is needed and another, where there is at least one level drop in ability?
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:
So, basically, it's designed as a way to make the PCs lives more difficult by giving them one more thing to worry about. Okay.

No. Consumables are already something for PCs to worry about (and if they aren't, your GM is likely doing something wrong). This rule simply changes the format so that it is more cinematic in nature by moving the calculation to the post-game or inter-game period where the GM is scripting out the next gaming session. That way, the GM can include the fact that the characters' ship needs to restock in the session intro, or even build the entire session around getting restocked before continuing on with the greater mission.

Quote:
I'm not sold on the dice approach though. A ship could do the exact same thing on multiple occasions and get wildly different results - for no good reason. I think that for something like this, a fixed value would work better than a die code. It doesn't make sense to me that an X-Wing could fly across the galaxy one day, without any supply problems, but not make it to a nearby moon the next.

Maybe there should be a certain threshold where no roll is needed and another, where there is at least one level drop in ability?

I'm sticking to the dice approach. Your scenario with the X-Wing could be fixed by changing the modifier table so that the modifier increases in direct proportion to jump length (and indirect proportion to hyperdrive modifier), and the modifier table wasn't intended to be set in stone anyway.

If you're looking for a threshold, use the D6 Space rules for rolling high level dice: anything above 5D converts over to 1D = 3.5 pips, so a ship like the YT-1300 with a Consumables of 9D becomes 5D+14, with the ship automatically succeeding on any Endurance roll where the Difficulty is 14 or less. Or adjust the dice conversion threshold accordingly: a 3D threshold (instead of 5D) would give you 3D+21.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atgxtg wrote:


So, basically, it's designed as a way to make the PCs lives more difficult by giving them one more thing to worry about. Okay.

I'm not sold on the dice approach though. A ship could do the exact same thing on multiple occasions and get wildly different results - for no good reason. I think that for something like this, a fixed value would work better than a die code. It doesn't make sense to me that an X-Wing could fly across the galaxy one day, without any supply problems, but not make it to a nearby moon the next.

Maybe there should be a certain threshold where no roll is needed and another, where there is at least one level drop in ability?


I think experience plays a role here.

If we consider CRM, for example, as a truck driver, so he knows that even if he does the "exact same thing," it won't always yield the same result.

The vehicle itself could have an unexpected problem (like the A/C failing under warranty or a tire blow out or whatever).

Cops could have a road shut down due to an ongoing police chase, requiring the vehicle to idle longer than usual, and increasing the stop-and-go, thus putting more stress on the engine and consuming significantly more fuel and brakes than simply cruising would.

There is also the possibility of some of the supplies being "bad" from the factory, and having to be thrown out upon discovery, and then using a good set (so it costs "double" for that particular interval).

Roads can be closed for weather, adding (for example) a 6-hour detour, which means not only a greater fuel consumption, but also an additional stop for food and hygiene (consuming one additional "pack" of his self-care supplies), etc.

There is a myriad of variables outside the vehicle and crew itself that can affect the rate of consumption, and the characters would have no control over such variables, despite attempting the "exact same thing."

The question is, do you, as GM, want to dictate when these off-camera things happen, or would you rather just make a couple of quick rolls and be done with it? Having some degree of unpredictability adds, I think, to the realism of it and can throw in an unexpected twist every once in a while, which can make things interesting for those GMs who would rather not dictate the timing of complications themselves.
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