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Rules for Environmental Conditions
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Rules for Environmental Conditions Reply with quote

So, as I'm working out rules for open cockpit airspeeders at high altitudes, I'm running into a block as WEG has no official rules for what actually happens (rules-wise) as Atmosphere and Temperature conditions become more and more hazardous.

For instance, what rules do you use when characters transition from a Type I Atmosphere to Type II, III or IV?

What rules do you use when the temperature on a planet's surface moves from Temperate up to Hot, or down to Cool or Frigid (we have all four conditions at the same time on this planet, depending on location)?

I think a variation on the Long-Distance Movement rules is a likely approach, where Difficulty of acting normally under conditions worsens the longer you spend in them. But at what point should Atmosphere / Temperature begin to inflict Stun Damage? Normal Damage? How much?

Opinions? I'd like to gen up a concrete set of rules for this...
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just spitballing...

Temperate Type I is considered "normal" for most races. Moving away from that results in 1D damage per step per day. Two steps is 2D damage per hour. Three Steps is 3D damage per second*. Steps moved are cumulative.

So, you start off at Type I Temperate. You move to a colder world (not Hoth, more like Canada), and so you start taking 1D cumulative damage per day... 1D on day 1, 2D on day 2, 3D day three, etc. You'll avoid this damage with a relatively simple measures... cold weather gear.

You'd have a similar result moving to a Type II Temperate... not going to die from it, if you take some reasonable steps (a breath mask, for example).

Now, if you move to a Type II Cold world, or a type I Frigid world, or a type III temperate world, you've moved two steps, and it becomes 2D damage per hour. Again, steps can limit the damage... wearing a jacket and a breath mask will solve things on a type II Cold world, as would some Frigid-rated gear on Hoth. If you don't have gear, you're going to rapidly be in trouble... 2D damage in hour one, 4D in hour 2, 6D in hour 3, etc.

Lastly, we have three-step worlds... Type IV atmosphere, a Frigid Type III, or whatever combination equals 3 steps. 3D damage per second, cumulative. If you can't handle the heat, stay off of Venus, as they say. Wink

Partially protective gear would help on a step-based method. If you're on a Frigid world with Cold gear, you're still having to deal with a 1 Step difference... not as bad as temperate gear, but still a 1 step problem. If you've got a breath mask on a type IV atmosphere, you still have a 2 step problem, but you're better off than the guy trying to bare-lung it.

*Star Wars, weirdly, has no minutes, just 60 "seconds" per "hour".
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Meriba
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All these rules depend on species.

Temperature: SW: Planet Collection, p.20 (burn, dehydration, sofocation, freeze rules -eg. Jedi/Sith powers and fire systems)

Gravity: SW: Planet Collection, pp.20-21 (specifically explained there)

Atmosphere: SW: Planet Collection, pp.21-22,178 (...slowed reactions, reduced brain activity, poisoning, or a myriad of other effects can begin to occur within just a few hours of exposure... -general rules for poisons, confusion effects -powers?-, etc.)


Last edited by Meriba on Fri May 20, 2016 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a "condition" chart with penalties spelled out for each ailment is the solution. In other words, require stamina checks periodically to resist the onset of hypothermia, heat stroke, trench foot, asphyxia, etc...

You'll have to decide how detailed to make each effect, and how many effects to bother with.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meriba wrote:
All these rules depend on species.

I know about these already. Planets Collection was the first place I looked. They provide game rules for the effects of Gravity (which wasn't part of my original question), but only provide general descriptions as to what happens when atmosphere and temperature change. Translation: No D6 rules. So we have to work them out for ourselves.
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Meriba
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I know about these already. Planets Collection was the first place I looked.


As I said...

Temperature: SW: Planet Collection, p.20 (burn, dehydration, sofocation, freeze rules -eg. Jedi/Sith powers and fire systems)

Gravity: SW: Planet Collection, pp.20-21 (specifically explained there)

Atmosphere: SW: Planet Collection, pp.21-22,178 (...slowed reactions, reduced brain activity, poisoning, or a myriad of other effects can begin to occur within just a few hours of exposure... -general rules for poisons, confusion effects -powers?-, etc.)

PS: Your answers sounds like a bit condescent. It's your intention? I'm only trying to share my personal opinion/lore to help others, with my poor english manage (english is my third language). I think practicing is the best way to improve it.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naaman wrote:
You'll have to decide how detailed to make each effect, and how many effects to bother with.

Mostly, I'll be looking at the Stamina and Willpower skills, and the Stun and Normal Damage charts. The actual names are of tertiary importance to what I'm trying to generate.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meriba wrote:
Atmosphere: SW: Planet Collection, pp.21-22,178 (...slowed reactions, reduced brain activity, poisoning, or a myriad of other effects can begin to occur within just a few hours of exposure... -general rules for poisons, confusion effects -powers?-, etc.)

I Got that. I was aware of it, and ultimately set them aside, as what they were describing was particularly nasty conditions on one specific planet, not necessarily what Type II Atmospheres in general were like.

Quote:
PS: Your answers sounds like a bit condescent. It's your intention? I'm only trying to share my personal opinion/lore to help others, with my poor english manage (english is my third language). I think practicing is the best way to improve it.

I think so, as well, and your input is appreciated. I have a well deserved reputation as the Rancor Pit's irascible (grumpy) old man, and sometimes things get under my skin and irritate me. I try not to let it show through in my posts, but sometimes it happens. In this case, I was pointing out that I didn't ask about gravity in my OP, and that I was already aware of the general descriptions of atmospheric conditions in the Planets Collection, as well as the specific description of Kuras' atmosphere later on.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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garhkal
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Rules for Environmental Conditions Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
So, as I'm working out rules for open cockpit airspeeders at high altitudes, I'm running into a block as WEG has no official rules for what actually happens (rules-wise) as Atmosphere and Temperature conditions become more and more hazardous.

For instance, what rules do you use when characters transition from a Type I Atmosphere to Type II, III or IV?


If they have a breath mask, they can survive almost indefinitely in a Type II environ. When they shift to III or IV though they need fully sealed suits.. If not start making stamina rolls with a ramping up difficulty to remain conscious...

CRMcNeill wrote:
What rules do you use when the temperature on a planet's surface moves from Temperate up to Hot, or down to Cool or Frigid (we have all four conditions at the same time on this planet, depending on location)?


Too hot. Make heat exhaustion/dehydration stamina/survival checks. Fail one and your further difficulties get ramped up. Fail 2 and you take a wound which a med pack CAN'T heal, only rest/cooling down and re-hydration can.

Too cold, and those stamina / survival checks also come in.. Hypothermia kills more people each year than does heat stroke iirc.
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Naaman
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRMcNeill wrote:
Naaman wrote:
You'll have to decide how detailed to make each effect, and how many effects to bother with.

Mostly, I'll be looking at the Stamina and Willpower skills, and the Stun and Normal Damage charts. The actual names are of tertiary importance to what I'm trying to generate.


That's how I would approach it, though I don't see willpower as being relevant to resisting "damage" from such sources, even if it acts as a sort of "control pain" against the efffects, which I'll assume is wht you meant.

Some of the symptoms might impose additional perception penalties, such as hallucination, etc. Not sure if you want to get that cruchy, though.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so here's the bare bones of what I'm thinking...

Environments will be rated as Normal, Strenuous, Hazardous, Hostile, Very Hostile and Lethal (based on Temperature and Atmospheric Type), with the following effects:
    Normal - No roll needed.
    Strenuous = 1D damage every hour, +1D/additional hour
    Extreme = 1D damage every 10 minutes, +1D/additional 10 minutes
    Hazardous = 1D damage every minute, +1D/additional minute
    Hostile = 1D damage every round, +1D/additional round
    Lethal = 4D damage every round, +2D/additional round
Normal for the vast majority of PCs will be High Temperate Type I (roughly human-normal atmosphere with a temperature range between 63 and 84 degrees Fahrenheit). Every step away from that Normal will increase the environment's threat level by 1 step.

The steps for Temperature would be:
    Searing (57C or more)
    Hot (High Hot, 43C - 56C)
    Warm (Low Hot, 30C - 42C)
    *Moderate (High Temperate, 17C to 29C)
    Cool (Low Temperate, -4C to 16C)
    Cold (-5C to -20C)
    Frigid (-21C or less)

    The names in parenthesis correspond with the various temperature types listed in the planet generation system on pg. 22 of the Planet's Collection.
The steps for Atmospheric Type are:
    *Type I (Breathable)
    Type II (Breath Mask Suggested)
    Type III (Breath Mask Required)
    Type IV (Environment Suit Required)


Basically, every step that an atmosphere deviates from the norm, either by getting hotter, colder or less breathable, the threat level of the atmosphere goes up by one step. For example, a Type II Atmosphere would be counted as Strenuous, but a Cool Type II Atmosphere would be counted as Hazardous. Each step away from Normal on either scale would count as a step up on the threat scale.

Alien species who don't breathe Type I Atmospheres would need to decide what a Type I Atmosphere would be to them.

In addition, protective clothing (anywhere from a good jacket down to a heated suit) would provide modifiers, shifting the Threat Level up to acceptable levels. Alternatively, protective coverings or Dune Stilsuits would shift the Threat Level down a step or more in hot environments.

Naturally, some planets may have environments so extreme that the damage listed above exceeds even a Hostile Environment (acidic atmosphere, volcanic heat, etc.) The Planets Collection already lists the damage for Vacuum (4D per round, +2D each additional round), so Type IV Atmospheres are presumed to be particularly nasty, non-vacuum atmospheres.

Thoughts?
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:21 pm; edited 3 times in total
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MrNexx
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not too far off what I suggested. Looks good.
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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: Added a couple more steps: Very Hostile and Lethal. I was rapidly running out of levels when trying to calculate the environmental hazards at high altitude, so I changed the rules for vacuum a little (3D initial + 3D/round, rather than 4D initial + 2D/round) and added an interim step between Hostile and Lethal.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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CRMcNeill
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking of adding an interim step on the threat levels. There should be a level with an interval less than 10 minutes, but more than 1 round. If 10 minutes is 1/6 of an hour, and a round is 1/120 of 10 minutes, inserting a 1/minute step would result in interval differences of 1/6, 1/10 and 1/12. I'm also going to change the names a little, with "Extreme" between Strenuous and Hazardous. While the technical definition of Extreme Environment covers everything from dry deserts to the surface of the moon, I'm going to use it as a description of the most extreme environments normally found on Earth-like planets (such as at the poles or arid desert conditions).

So...
    Strenuous = 1D damage every hour, +1D/additional hour
    Extreme = 1D damage every 10 minutes, +1D/additional 10 minutes
    Hazardous = 1D damage every minute, +1D/additional minute
    Hostile = 1D damage every round, +1D/additional round
    Lethal = 4D damage every round, +2D/additional round

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

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Dredwulf60
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I imagine events and phenomenon could scale the effect up or down?

Like the difference between being outside on Hoth on a sunny day vs being outside on Hoth at night vs being outside on Hoth at night during a wind storm?

Would your environment system include the effect of say a sandstorm on Tatooine; ie shift the scale one level or would that sand storm be a separate dice mechanic that might inflict damage to exposed flesh?
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