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Destiny Dice
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raithyn
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:28 pm    Post subject: Destiny Dice Reply with quote

Instead of using Character Points to improve individual rolls, I offer my players a “Destiny Dice” (which I sometimes think of as Carrick Dice in my head).


Destiny Dice Rules

At the beginning of the session, the players receive a number of Destiny Dice in their pool equal to the number of player characters. The GM starts with a single Destiny Die in their pool.

When making a skill roll, a player can pull any number of Destiny Dice from the pool and add roll them as well. Like the Wild Die, Destiny Dice explode on 6s but they do not critically fail on 1s.

Once Destiny Dice are rolled, they are set aside. When the current battle or scene ends, they are added to the GM’s Destiny Pool. The GM may use Destiny Dice with any NPC rolls, returning expended dice to the players’ pool after the battle or scene in which they are used.

The GM is encouraged to use Destiny Dice in their pool quickly. This encourages the players to use them by example and ensures that dice move freely between the two pools.


The Goals

• Add additional dials for how easy or hard an encounter swings that both the players and GM can use during play.
• Keep experience (Character Points) for advancement, not individual rolls.
• Play to the thematic element of the Force "balancing." If the player's blow all their dice to achieve a short-term goal, it may come back to haunt them in the next scene.
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pakman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a very similar thing - except I call them "Hero Dice".

Ours don't explode - but I do have a pool for npcs and external events etc.
And they can go back and forth.

They are part of keeping Character Points for character advancement (I call the Experience points) and not for adding to rolls.

I also award milestone based experience (end of adventure, or if a long adventure, at a major story point) - and everyone in the group gets the same amount. Then long term, I have a running total of how many "XP" a character is - 30 point character, 60 point etc. This then allows me to build NPCs of similar power ranges - 30 point villain, 60 point boss etc.

Been playing this way for about a year - and the players like keeping xp and hero dice separate- but I realize it is not for all groups.

thanks for sharing.
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raithyn
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pakman wrote:
Then long term, I have a running total of how many "XP" a character is - 30 point character, 60 point etc. This then allows me to build NPCs of similar power ranges - 30 point villain, 60 point boss etc.


That's a great thought. I'd been wondering how experienced players build their NPCs. This is super simple but somehow I'd never thought of applying milestone experience as a way to facilitate it! That actually works really well with the longer-term campaign I'm contemplating.
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pakman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raithyn wrote:
That's a great thought. I'd been wondering how experienced players build their NPCs. This is super simple but somehow I'd never thought of applying milestone experience as a way to facilitate it! That actually works really well with the longer-term campaign I'm contemplating.


Glad it was useful.

Now, for a quick compare - just looking at combat related dice is a common method (what are the NPC dodge, Blaster etc.) but I find thinking about it in the number of advances works well too - as you can only go up a single pip in an advance.

On their chracter sheet characters record the number of advances, and their Lifetime XP.

I had also made some rough "tiers" of character ranking based on the number of advances....

From my house rules document....


Advances Character Rank
0-3 Rank 1 : Initiate
4-6 Rank 2: Apprentice
8-9 Rank 3: Journeyman
12-12 Rank 4: Master
16-15 Rank 5: Grand master
18+ Rank 6: Legendary

Character Ranks are useful in judging the overall capability and
challenge level for player characters and NPCs alike, assisting
the GM in roughly estimating the character’s capabilities and
balancing encounters and challenges for a party. As a general
rule of thumb heavily invested skills go up about 1D per Rank.
Additionally higher Character Ranks may also be requirements
for certain Advanced Skills and Special Abilities.
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shootingwomprats
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 12:01 am    Post subject: Re: Destiny Dice Reply with quote

raithyn wrote:
Destiny Dice Rules


I started using this idea a few years ago. I started calling them Destiny Dice like someone else did, renamed them Hero Points. I typically gave the group a number of die equal to their Force Points. Like you suggested, they can explode but do not give a complication. I did try non-exploding die but it didn't feel heroic enough.

I found running a character destiny pool and one for the GM became clunky and if the players made some poor choices the bad guys could become nearly impossible to beat. A GM running Marvel Heroic would always grow the Doom Pool until the end with the bad guys having big die they could add to rolls and the players were typically screwed. Again this largely depends on the GM, but when designing mechanics others might use, one needs to take into account GM as well as player abuse.

Another thing I tried was a variation of Savage Worlds bennies. Instead of giving an extra die to roll when they were used I gave a flat +5 modifier. This felt better.
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raithyn
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: Destiny Dice Reply with quote

shootingwomprats wrote:
Again this largely depends on the GM, but when designing mechanics others might use, one needs to take into account GM as well as player abuse.


I'm happy to get feedback from your play experiences. Mine too this point are one or two shot games which have different incentives versus a longer campaign. I'm sure that skews my design in subtle ways.

I do enjoy SW bennies, especially the non-dice uses. I find that my table in particular tends to hoard them the same way they hoard character points—to the point that multiple characters have died in both systems because the players didn't want to spend any of their precious meets currency. A constant ebb and flow that discourages hoarding is a key design goal here.

There are two safety rails against abuse with the Destiny Dice system.

First, the number of dice is capped by the number of people at the table. Obviously, of you have a very small group (1-2 players), you could just set a number of 4-6 dice instead. I leave the players with Force points to use as normal.

Second, combat may be faster if dice are used to hit or slower if they're used to avoid attacks and it may be less lethal if dice are used to soak damage, but it will rarely be more lethal because weapon damage codes aren't skills. There are exceptions, but from what I've seen, NPCs those apply to already come with a high number of character points RAW so this is more often a nerf than a buff.
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pakman
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Destiny Dice Reply with quote

raithyn wrote:
shootingwomprats wrote:
Again this largely depends on the GM, but when designing mechanics others might use, one needs to take into account GM as well as player abuse.


I'm happy to get feedback from your play experiences. Mine too this point are one or two shot games which have different incentives versus a longer campaign. I'm sure that skews my design in subtle ways.


Can do - we have been using ours for a little over a year - and while I have made a FEW tweaks....it has worked out really well.

raithyn wrote:

I do enjoy SW bennies, especially the non-dice uses. I find that my table in particular tends to hoard them the same way they hoard character points—to the point that multiple characters have died in both systems because the players didn't want to spend any of their precious meets currency. A constant ebb and flow that discourages hoarding is a key design goal here.

When my group wanted to restart star wars after covid (our in person saga game had ended) after looking at a lot of systems, the two finals were savage worlds (which is an amazing system) and going back to Weg D6 (as most of us had played it back in the day, and I had all the books still).

One of the things I noticed in reading a lot of savage worlds forums and and videos - bennies seem to be a bit....over useful.
That and some encounters seemed to come down to "which side had more bennies".

Now, this may be true of a lot of systems with a meta currency - but I took this into account when I wanted to create mine...

Oh, and we Decided it was eaiser to add house rules (we had some from back in the 90s) to d6 than go with another system...

High level overview of my "Hero Dice" system.

1 - Character points are ONLY for advancement - they are not a currency used in actual game play (yes, they get less - but that is a different topic).

2 - I put into a pool, 3 "hero" dice for each player into a pool for them to share at the beginning of each session.

3 - I put into a pool, 2 Dice for each player into a pool for the GM to use, at the beginning of each session.

4 - Players can add up to 3 dice to a roll - before or after the roll - as long as they don't know the result (i.e. did they meet the difficultly). if they know the difficutly level (sometimes) they have to add before the roll.

5 - The GM will add dice to significant NPC or story event rolls - before he rolls (I even tell the players in a narrative sense "The crime lord musters all of his will on a desperate attempt to leap on to the skiff to get away..." etc. to improve dramatic tension).

What this does - players DONT horde them - as they reset every session.
I decided to only use them as dice pools - as I felt all the other uses just complicated things - and could lead to what I considered undesirable 'meta gaming".
I have found my players are not greedy with them - in fact, most of the time - it is another player saying "hey man, you better use a couple of hero dice..". I was worried they would be a contention - but they are not.

My players like the option - and it adds to the suspense when I pick up a couple to roll on my side.

New Option I an considering:
After reading some other ideas here and other places - I suggested this to the players;
"what is the dice the party spend goes into the NPC pool, and vice versa" - that thought it was interesting - but ominous...
They have not decided yet. Wink

(As a side note- I have a slightly different take on Force points - that is mostly independent to this.....)

Again, we have been running with this for about a year- and it has worked out really well. No hoarding, use them or lose them, and the balance is it is based on player count at the table for the session.

best of luck in your game.
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raithyn
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2023 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! That's all great info.

I like the single dice pool for all players better than individual sets of dice since it gives them a prisoner's dilemma. Sure, they could all agree to hoard the dice, but there's bound to be someone who can't resist using them so each individual player will want to make sure they get in on the benefit. I put physical dice in a little rolling tray in the middle of the table so everyone tracks how many are left without thinking about it. Having them highly visible as colorful, tangible objects seems to help them get used too. I'm not sure this would feel the same too the players if we played virtually.

I also find that the shared resource means people are more likely to tell other players to use them. I have one player in particular who rarely grabs any Destiny Dice themself but will regularly remind others to on important rolls.

As to flowing back and forth between the pools, I originally started that so players would consider these a renewable resource rather than a (per session) limited one. There are other ways to accomplish that. Maybe they get more dice when the wild die is a one (specifically only when dice are nullified) or someone like that. I want the refresh to be mechanical instead of GM fiat. I know from experience how often I forget to award SW bennies or D&D inspiration when that is only left to my personal judgement. The system I'm using does still require GM action, but I find it easier to remember during play. It also gives me a dial to ramp up difficulty based on which rolls I influence.

Holding used dice between pools until the next scene is a bit more awkward, but so far seems important to keep us from using them on alternating turns or rounds. It slows their use down just enough that people still think about picking them up before doing so.

I'll have to consider when players might add dice after a roll. Right now it's only before rolling. I'm not sure my players have enough experience to quickly sort between rolls they know the difficulty for and those they don't like you're describing.
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